EDL watch

[SpineyNorman]

Mixed feelings on the whole 'showing respect' thing as it sounds like people being forced to take sides a bit, which I'm not particularly comfortable with - as with enforced minutes of silence at work (not that I can think of any I particularly objected to in principle recently) it starts leaning a bit towards the whole 'with us or against us' thing, and obstructs discussion of causes and motivations. I think in this case I'd rather things settled down rather than weeks of tributes to an unwilling martyr of the far right. Poor lad & family could probably do without the political attachment and conflict attached to his death.

I don't really know what the answer is, though I know it has fuckall to do with henna tattoos.

Nobody's demanding everyone 'pays respect' though. People who don't want to come to lay the wreath don't have to. I'd do it though, as far as I'm concerned all it would be is showing respect to the victim of a horrific murder and solidarity to his family.

It's just an effective way of pulling the rug from under the feet of the EDL.

What's most amusing is that some people seem to be implying it would 'put off Muslims' (which sounds a bit, well, racist to me - as if they all think the same way). But the comment I suggested it in has quite a lot of likes - around half of them from people who, judging by their names, are Muslims. None of the people who have taken issue with the suggestion or called it pandering to jingoism had Muslim sounding names.

Especially amusing as if it were anyone else saying it they're exactly the people who would be shouting them down for trampling on Muslim experience of oppression by 'speaking for' them.

 

[thriller]

so where is the leakage of the membership, then?

 

[SpineyNorman]

so where is the leakage of the membership, then?

It's an old one - the one teampoison released last year. But if you're interested http://pastebin.com/sQuqmX7M

 

[renegadechicken]

Someone just sent me this link...interesting

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/rss/1110-tommy-robinson-tries-to-cover-up-war-memorial-nazi-salutes

 

[treelover]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-yards-overcrowded-mosque.html#ixzz2UkXHEhRk

Daily Mail stirring the pot.

 

[treelover]

serving soldiers posting on the FB now from Afghan,

or so they say...

 

[Dogsauce]

Nobody's demanding everyone 'pays respect' though. People who don't want to come to lay the wreath don't have to. I'd do it though, as far as I'm concerned all it would be is showing respect to the victim of a horrific murder and solidarity to his family.

Has the family asked for this solidarity though? Is it an organised event by any particular group or authority? Otherwise it feels a bit like the EDL calling the shots, and I feel a bit uneasy about this because it's acknowledging their power. It'd be easier to defuse things if there was an official public wreath laying or something like that, so it wasn't the agenda set by the EDL and they weren't then seen as the default leaders and shapers of the response to this event. They're cynical opportunists that don't deserve such elevation.

What I'd most like to see happen would be for the family to step up and call for a halt to the politicalisation of the event and an end to the 'hate marches', but they've probably got other things on their mind right now.

I can appreciate the sentiment behind showing respect, and know why such a death is significant and will draw out solidarity from people who aren't related. The guy was brutally killed for what he was, not a random killing or a personal killing, but just because of his career, and that's not philosophically a huge difference from people being singled out and killed for being gay or of a particular race. I don't think memorial events and shows of solidarity are inappropriate. People using memorial events (or creating their own) to promote their kind of hate that also leads to people getting murdered in the street is pretty fucking horrible though. There's just a danger of making them look like the good guys if they're targetted aggressively at war memorials and so on - and danger that certain sections of the media would look on them sympathetically.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Has the family asked for this solidarity though? Is it an organised event by any particular group or authority? Otherwise it feels a bit like the EDL calling the shots, and I feel a bit uneasy about this because it's acknowledging their power. It'd be easier to defuse things if there was an official public wreath laying or something like that, so it wasn't the agenda set by the EDL and they weren't then seen as the default leaders and shapers of the response to this event. They're cynical opportunists that don't deserve such elevation.

What I'd most like to see happen would be for the family to step up and call for a halt to the politicalisation of the event and an end to the 'hate marches', but they've probably got other things on their mind right now.

I can appreciate the sentiment behind showing respect, and know why such a death is significant and will draw out solidarity from people who aren't related. The guy was brutally killed for what he was, not a random killing or a personal killing, but just because of his career, and that's not philosophically a huge difference from people being singled out and killed for being gay or of a particular race. I don't think memorial events and shows of solidarity are inappropriate. People using memorial events (or creating their own) to promote their kind of hate that also leads to people getting murdered in the street is pretty fucking horrible though. There's just a danger of making them look like the good guys if they're targetted aggressively at war memorials and so on - and danger that certain sections of the media would look on them sympathetically.

Give me fucking strength.

 

[renegadechicken]

I'm currently in a 'discussion' with Rafferty's bar, Newcastle, regarding their decision to host the edl, ( its been an ongoing 'discussion' since the 25th may) and I'm sure i read an article that stated they also allowed edl merchandise to be sold from the bar, but for the life of me i cannot find the link, does anyone have it?

It's interesting in that they are saying they only allowed the edl to muster there as the police asked them and they feared for their license if they refused, despite telling me that refusing fascists would not lose them their license.

 

[Dogsauce]

Daily Mail stirring the pot.

That's just about demographic change in one area, isn't it? Divisive disengenuous cunts.

Aren't pentacostal churches the fastest growing religious movement in the country at the moment anyway? Plenty of full Christian churches there.

 

[SpineyNorman]

It's not the EDL calling the shots - unless you're saying everyone who thinks laying a wreath is the right and respectful thing to do is secretly EDL. It's about being sensitive to the way these things are viewed and not handing the EDL and open net. Nothing more than that.

The family have made a statement saying that they are very grateful for the shows of respect and solidarity they have received so far - I think insisting that they demand it first might be taking things a bit far.

And I think, regardless of the EDL, it's a nice gesture. We're opposed to violent indoctrinated bigots and murderers and want to express solidarity and offer support to their victims and would be victims. Doesn't matter to me whether the culprits are white or brown, or whether their faith is in Islam, British 'patriotism' or neoliberal capitalism. Just as we pay our respects to victims of racist murders, we pay our respects here.

Oh, and there's that little thing called politics. If you draw a line in the sand with you on one side and a large part (almost certainly a majority) of the working class on another - bigots this side (and of course everyone who thinks people should be allowed to lay a wreath is one of the bigots), fluffy 'principled' liberals the other - then which side do you think ordinary people who want to show their respects, people we should be appealing to, are more likely to listen to?

 

[Balbi]

Northampton EDL's argument is did any other political group call for EVERYONE to come and honour Lee Rigby's memory? No. So don't complain.

Does anyone want soldiers deaths politicised? No. Twats.

Amusingly, the towns Wetherspoons - including the one where they intended to start drinking at, are all shutting until 4pm because they want none of it

 

[Mr.Bishie]

 

[SpineyNorman]

North East Fusiliers Association: better at antifascism than the UAF.

 

[bignose1]

Pretty sure Scarrot's Labour party - but I suspect there'll be an SWP 'footsoldier' running the facebook group. The deleted post was made last night and was a comment on a thread where a lot of EDL had been posting daftness (some of properly offensive stuff that I'd have no problem with them deleting) so it might have been a case of delete the whole thread to get rid of it.

I've made a similar comment again today, only to be told that would be us 'accepting the EDL's narrative' and 'pandering' and that henna tattoos would be a better strategy. Seriously.

Never mind that by saying laying a wreath is the 'EDL narrative' they're slandering anyone who wants to pay their respects as being the same as the EDL.

I fucking dispair at this stuff - the EDL are making out that the only reason they're being opposed is because lefties hate soldiers and britain and support what happened so we don't want to let people pay their respects. And it seems to me that these clowns are doing all they can to lend credence to those claims.

The UAF seem to be getting worse not better. They might as well be signing people up to the EDL round here, they're the best recruiting seargent they'll ever get.

Norm save your hennagy....your doing alright...

 

[DotCommunist]

Northampton EDL's argument is did any other political group call for EVERYONE to come and honour Lee Rigby's memory? No. So don't complain.

Does anyone want soldiers deaths politicised? No. Twats.

Amusingly, the towns Wetherspoons - including the one where they intended to start drinking at, are all shutting until 4pm because they want none of it

hopefully they get into a running street battle with the Jesus Army for the sake of surreality

 

[J Ed]

Doncaster Wetherspoons is closing too. Police seem to be asking them to close early.

 

[bignose1]

Norm save your hennagy....your doing alright...

*****

 

[bignose1]

*****

 

[AKA pseudonym]

 

[bignose1]

View attachment 33110

Anti fishists...

 

[jakethesnake]

Give me fucking strength.

ah, the song of my people

 

[J Ed]

 

[Dogsauce]

Young Tommy's getting a bit full of himself on Twitter tonight. Hashtaghing himself as 'the people's voice' no less. Delusional self-regard.

Also got cancelled by Newsnight, which is obviously a big conspiracy and fuck all to do with the April Jones verdict pushing other stories from the headlines.

Griffin used to play the victim like this too, didn't he?

 

[Anudder Oik]

Helicopter view of Whitehall protests. EDL not more than 600, which is shite for a bank holiday and given the circumstances of emotions at boiling point the length and breadth of the country.

Starts at minute: 2.20

 

[AKA pseudonym]

English Defence League Website Hacked And Defaced By Muslim Hackers - [News]

 

[comrade spurski]

Re the "shrine" to Lee Rigby...I live nearby and have stayed away ... not because it's EDL led but because it feels like attending a strangers funeral but I would not expect anyone else to feel like this. It feels a bit odd (for the want of a better word) to have that here but I think that's cos it serves as a reminder that a terrible act occurred in our community.
One of the best things about it was last saturday a group of Nigerians marched and layed a wreath and the people already at the shrine, mainly white, applauded them ... don't really see the EDL enjoying that too much.
A few of my mates have been as they work in the council building just down the road and they said they didn't see any racist messages there just stuff about how sorry people were.
Re soldiers ... I thought that being against the war included not wanting to see soldiers getting killed on the orders of politicians...most soldiers joined to have a career ... look at the ads for the army etc. they don't say " come join us to kill foreigners" they talk of a career and of helping out desperate people...most soldiers are recruited from working class areas as there ain't jobs to get...if some left groups can't understand that then they don't deserve to call themselves socialists.

 

[malatesta32]

Are the rank and file making it clear a lot want to go on Saturday? What's the leaders take? I haven't been looking.

i am trying to 'wind down operations' up here at the moment but it seems that the EDL leadership are flushed by the success of saturday and monday - which to be honest went better than i thought it would for them. however, because of the schisms in the EDL and/or difficulties in making official protests on short notice, they seem to be doing a load of local demos. either latching onto extant ones organised by others or sorting their own wee ones. they have been piggybacking other things in rigby's memory already. however, they may be either too disorganised or spread too thinly to make the media splash they did at the weekend - altho the Metro was seen by literally 100s of 1000s and did them no favours whatsoever. tommy knows he has little control now over the majority of EDL and is desperate to rake some money in from it whilst it lasts and assume some kind of contro.l. him wearing a combat jacket on monday symbolises his opportunism.

 

[malatesta32]

http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk...-to-close-doncaster-town-centre-pub-1-5723551

 

[Pickman's model]

Has the family asked for this solidarity though? Is it an organised event by any particular group or authority? Otherwise it feels a bit like the EDL calling the shots, and I feel a bit uneasy about this because it's acknowledging their power. It'd be easier to defuse things if there was an official public wreath laying or something like that, so it wasn't the agenda set by the EDL and they weren't then seen as the default leaders and shapers of the response to this event. They're cynical opportunists that don't deserve such elevation.

What I'd most like to see happen would be for the family to step up and call for a halt to the politicalisation of the event and an end to the 'hate marches', but they've probably got other things on their mind right now.

I can appreciate the sentiment behind showing respect, and know why such a death is significant and will draw out solidarity from people who aren't related. The guy was brutally killed for what he was, not a random killing or a personal killing, but just because of his career, and that's not philosophically a huge difference from people being singled out and killed for being gay or of a particular race. I don't think memorial events and shows of solidarity are inappropriate. People using memorial events (or creating their own) to promote their kind of hate that also leads to people getting murdered in the street is pretty fucking horrible though. There's just a danger of making them look like the good guys if they're targetted aggressively at war memorials and so on - and danger that certain sections of the media would look on them sympathetically.

So now 'certain sections of the media' call the shots.