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Why aren't we allowed to keep them Fridgey?

We can interrogate their motivations, gently highlight their erroneous beliefs, and persuade them to recant and perhaps spread their new enlightenment to fellow 'patriots'.

I'm sure they're all lovely chaps really, and if we amicably reason with them then they'll realise where they've gone wrong.

No? Oh well. :(

;)
 
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I just wrote malatesta this thing about fascism, i'm sure it's not perfect so dunno if anyone wants to take a look at it and give a critique?

________________________________________________________________________-

What is wrong with this list that has been circulating around the internet?

The problem is that it relys on a crude caricature of the USA as being or getting similar to fascism. I will go through it and say what is wrong with it.

Nobody could possibly dispute most of the items on the list as having been employed by fascist states. The problem however is that these are all things that are employed by so-called "democratic" bourgeois states, Stalinist ones etc, and the presence of one of those items on the list or even all of it doesn't mean that the state is fascist.

Let's take nationalism for example, which is the first item on the list. Every state uses some kind of concept of nationalism and indeed the concept of nationalism has been a progressive concept in the past, the idea that people could be united by living in a common area rather than by religion or which family you had ties to, which used to be the more usual one and led to far more wars and bloodshed. You can be a nationalist and not be a fascist and indeed many Irish republicans etc, could fall into this category.

Nationalism is indeed used by the fash, but it's used to a much greater extent to what's found in most states. It's also tied in with a concept of people being excluded from the nation as well even if it's insisted that they're "not racist" etc. The thing with fascism is that as well as nationalism there's also an idea that the nation has been in some way humiliated or persecuted. The mythology of the backstabbinf of the treaty of versailles for example. The preoccupation with "community decline" - imagining that the nation has been ruined in whatever, morally or whatever (often in terms of sexual morality), the imagery of the nation as say as a woman raped by foreigners etc.

So what happens with nationalism is not that it aint there but its content.


"disdain for the recognition of human rights" - this applies to all states none of them give a shit about human rights and actually during the early part of the 1930s this was used as an obsessive focus of Nazi propaganda against Poland and Czechoslovakia - the idea that the germans there being maltreated and so something had to be done about it. In addition Nazi propaganda presented the USA as being somewhere were black people were maltreated (yes I know!!)

Identification of scapegoats - this indeed happens in fascism but it also happens in this country as well (benefit scroungers etc) and this country is a long way off being fascist. I don't think it's just the identification of them, it's what's done about it. Within a few years of the fash being in power in Germany they had removed almost all Jews from the upper echelons of the upper middle classes, they had stopped them going being doctors or having high positions in corporations etc, they had thrown them out of most public sector jobs, they had stopped them being teachers, htey had confiscated property etc,they had basically set about their complete exclusion from social and economic life in Germany.

Most countries have scapegoats, they might even attempt to do stuff like this on a limited scale, but they won't restrict all access to any other information. Even in South Africa, as unpleasant as that regime was, people still had access to opposing views.

Scapegoats in fascism are indeed used to unify the country but it's done to a much more extreme extent than other states, the fact that a state is doing it doesn't mean that state is fascist.

Supremacy of the Military - this is a bit problematic this one. The military is used in fascist propaganda, the fash have a good wank over it, etc, and society is militarised, the human body is fetishised in terms of its physical power rather than intellectual power etc. However there are two very important things that this misses.

1) The fash might have a good wank over soldiers etc but they don't want the military to have all the power because the military threaten their power. In fascist states the Party has all of the power, they will try and adapt the military to their own aims. they will even set up alternative institutions to the actual military such as the SS and the SA. the Wehrmacht hated the SS. Hated them.

A fascist party will have its own paramilitary unit(s), that's what makes them fascist. The nazis had the SA/SS, the Italian fash had the squadristi, etc.They might rein them in if they threaten the partys power but they will still have them.
 
2) The fash don't only worship the military for it's own sake, they worship it because of both what it reprsents (health, vitality, all that shit) and also because of their territorial ambitions, about redressing the fact the nation has been humiliated by regaining the lost symbols of their humiliation. For example laying claim to various territories (or increasing their claim on various territories). If a fash party came to power in the UK you would probably imo see them openly disccussing invading Ireland after a while for example, un-devolving Scotland etc.

Rampant sexism - yep, this is certainly a part of fascism. However, it's also been a feature of loads of countries which, while backward, aren't exactly fascist (for example switzerland not giving women the vote till the 80s lol).

What I would say is a feature of fascism is the obsessive preoccupation with community decline and the attacking of enemies for example in sexual terms, for example Hitler's rants in Mein Kampf about syphilis and gonnorhea. The fash see the nation like a body and individual sexual morality is linked to national morality, to them it is the same thing. If you fuck a black man you're destroying the purity of the national body as well as the purity of your own body. Therefore if say somebody is gay it is seen as damaging the nation, if immigrants are "raping" the country it means they are actually raping people etc.

The sexist thing is complicated because women do play a major role in fascist movements. Fascism also started as a secular thing as well. However I'd say that in general the whole message of fascism does tend to lend itself to extreme misogyny, the whole emphasis on "traditionalism" and the hatred of "weakness" and all that bollocks.

Controlled mass media - yep absolutely. However all countries do this to an extent, there aint any such thing as total freedom of speech. The fash however? they do it to an extent that almost no, or no opposing views get out.

Obsession with national security - all states do this especially at a time of "crisis".

Corporate power is protected - Name me a country where this doesn't happen?

What happens in fascism is something called "corporativism". The fash believe in class collaboration. They believe that unions and bosses should work together for the "good" of the nation (for the ideological purposes of fascism), which of course ends up meaning that in practice the unions end up rubber stamping the bosses' decisions. This is what happened in Fascist Italy. The fash will also try and gear the economy towards militaristic aims by offering incentives to companies to do so etc. In 1930s Germany a lot of companies ended up making their workers swear an oath of allegiance to the fuhrer on a regular basis.

Labour Power is suppressed - The fash will try to destroy working class power utterly. What happened in fascism is more than restrictive laws against trade unions, it was destroying working class power in the most brutal way possible. They will also try to set up their own unions and force the workers to join those.They will even purge people who believe in working class power within their own party.

Of course, capital will only promote fascism as a last resort.The bourgeoisie fear the fash almost as much as they fear the power of the working class, because the fash will also try and force their bollocks onto the rich as well (although not as vigorously). The fash might adopt the language of Marxism - Mussolini used to be a socialist before he started fascism,they might even adopt some popularist and pseudo socialist ideas, part of the whole thing about fascism is that they try to attract the petit bourgeoisie and the lumpenproletariat and elements of the working class, they do that by having some socialist ideas, even adopting some of them, and not making it obvious they're fash (although the violence etc will display otherwise). They've never done this (make themselves into a caricature and get ny real power), they never did it even back in the 20s and 30s.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - yep, although I'd say that it was the hatred of a certain type of intellectual (that's also linked into the hatred of women as well). Intellectuals are seen as weak and fascism is quite an anti illectaual movement.One of the slogans of the spanish fash was "death to intelligence" :facepalm: That said, I think that the Nazi and fascist movement was keen to encourage the pseudo intellectual filth of the likes of Rosenberg, Spengler, etc, as a philosophical backing behind the violence and cruelty of fascism, and in the attempts to portray fascism as soley about lumpen thuggishness this has has perhaps been little recognised, because there were fascist intellectuals who offered the most sickening justifications for their beliefs.

I've not mentioned this but it is IMO the most important part of what fascism is so sorry I ain't mentioned it until now, this is what the list misses off. Fascsim is "palingenetic ultranationalism". Palingenesis meaning the rebirth of society into a modern version of the golden age the fash look back to and the destruction of the (degenerate) current society. There is no analysis behind fascism although a lot of the fash are very clever, but there isn't really any actual theory behind it. It's not about intellectual analysis, this is why fascism always involves a charismatic leader/s as well and asks people to believe, its like a secular religion. When Mussolini tried to define fascism in the 20s he couldnt do it, he ended up describing it as like a faith and like a feeling. They think that the nation can be reborn again without all the degeneracy and all that bollocks and that they are the ones to do it. They think back to a golden age where moral standards didn't slip and the country had its rightful place in the world - and they also think that they can bring that about again.

There is a massive emphasis on action in fascism as opposed to theory. That "action" usually involving violence or its threat.

ETA: It's all about violence. They glorify violence. They view war as not only avoidable or even a necessity but as desirable from an aesthetic as well as political point of view. "War - the world's only hygiene!" etc. Without violence or the threat in practice as well as in theory it isn't fascism.

Also - fascism is ALWAYS racist. Don't believe anyone who says that Italian fascism wasn't racist or that it's possible to be fascist and not racist. It is not. Fascism is always racist, might not involve the nazi one drop rule but it always involves racism of some kind, there are other ways of being racist other than basing it on a genetic basis like the Nazis did. there are ways of forcibly destroying culture and language. The were racist as early as 1920 when they were still "socialist" - they were burning down Slovenian church halls and forcing people to drink petrol.

As such they want to encourage not to think and they counterpose the faith and feeling of the fash who are about action and not thinking etc, with lily-livered marxists who like to sit in rooms and read books etc.

You're bang on about cultural work being state sanctioned.

Obsession with Crime and Punishment - yep. It comes under the community decline thing. The flipside of that is that any dissent will be regarded as crime and that some crimes will not be punished at all. This happens in any state however, they will just go on about it that much more.

They will also use extra-legalistic methods to carry out their aims, as long as the lawbreakers cannot be linked back to the Party in any concrete way, although it will still be known who is responsible. The paramilitary wings will have a token distance from the state (but not really). However, the Nazis were very concerned about carrying out the holocaust in a "lawful" manner - watch the film "conspiracy" for an example of this. Sickening ...

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption/Fraudulent Elections - thing is, this happens in almost every state. There are plenty of dictatorships who do this regularly and they're not fash.

I hope that helped mate let me know if you have any other questions.
 
And we clocked you shaky hand cunts in there at 10am. Slipped the ring - you never got in the ring. We had you from church road 9am onwards. What a poor show for your visiting mates.
 
This is a timelapse vid of the march, or at least part of it.



For a national level demo it is poor of course, we know the poorest in 3 years - and that is part of a trend.

This is cause now to complain every time he gets on BBC, at least at a national level. He still does with a frequency far out of proportion to that level of support.

When was the last time Auntie had Ian Bone or someone similar on?
 
thanks yeah as i said a lot of it might be bollocks so feel free to critique etc

Sorry FW, did you put up what your thing was a response to?

I go along with much of what you say, but it is not an exact science by any stretch.

It's a bit like those psychological assessments of some fangled "disorder" where if you get a certain number of ticks for factors that are often not clearly definable then - Ta da!

For me, and I read your piece some hours ago so don't recall, I think totalitarianism and authoritarianism are, though far from unique to the fash, absolutely core.
 
im English till i die
im English till i die
i no i am
im sure i am
im English till i die


E-E-EDL! E-E-EDL!!!

To be fair to our now banned guest, s/he is hitting on a central feature of nationality, in that where you were born remains the same till the day you shift off this mortal coil.

I don't know about some posts like that though

I know I am criticised for my attitude with regard to literacy levels in the patriot community, but is there no floor at all? Anyone who can't distinguish "no" from "know" might well not be English at all.

Could some of them be immigrants just picking up the lingo as they go, thinking they might be better accepted by acting that way?
 
Oh that every day could start with unintended comedy.

'I dont mean to alarm you Mr & Mrs Local, but your son has failed his illiteracy test, leading us to suspect he's not really from round these parts'.
 
Sorry FW, did you put up what your thing was a response to?

I go along with much of what you say, but it is not an exact science by any stretch.

It's a bit like those psychological assessments of some fangled "disorder" where if you get a certain number of ticks for factors that are often not clearly definable then - Ta da!

For me, and I read your piece some hours ago so don't recall, I think totalitarianism and authoritarianism are, though far from unique to the fash, absolutely core.
that was my point about the list
 
To be fair to our now banned guest, s/he is hitting on a central feature of nationality, in that where you were born remains the same till the day you shift off this mortal coil.

I don't know about some posts like that though

I know I am criticised for my attitude with regard to literacy levels in the patriot community, but is there no floor at all? Anyone who can't distinguish "no" from "know" might well not be English at all.

Could some of them be immigrants just picking up the lingo as they go, thinking they might be better accepted by acting that way?

why do you keep saying this shit?
 
why do you keep saying this shit?

In case the vile shit was still reading in this instance, or any of that crowd.

I taught in high schools, FE and Adult Ed for many years, almost always in very deprived areas. One of my qualifications is specific to teaching adults basic literacy.

You may not like it, you may think it counter-productive, but sadly it is not "shit".

The mistake cited is rare among 12 year olds. Among the EDL it is pretty common. It's possible s/he made it semi deliberately, as a celebration of ignorance.

I see such fuckery every day, loads of it. I live in a highly mixed area and find the bigotry an affront, as I am sure you do.

I am no nationalist but I do love the language. People such as our departed guest are an utter disgrace to the language, claiming as they do to speak on behalf of the nation.

They are vile bullies. They are hypocritical. They are a curse. They are fair game.
 
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