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EDL watch

butchersapron said:
Flicking through the panicky demos report Inside the edl:

Key findings
We estimate the total size of the active membership to be at least 25,000–35,000 people

The received wisdom that the EDL is a street based movement comprised of young thugs needs to be revised Supporters are older and more educated than many assume: 28 per cent are over 30; 30 per cent are educated to university or college level

They are disproportionately likely to be out of work

The EDL contains democrats

Immigration is the biggest concern among EDL supporters

The BNP is the most popular political party among EDL supporters

Supporters have low levels of ‘social capital’ and high levels of pessimism

Supporters join the EDL because of a combination of opposition to Islam or Islamism, and to preserve national and cultural values

Supporters demonstrate for the EDL because of a sense of injustice and pessimism combined with a belief that politics can make a difference
Click to expand...
 
DotCommunist said:
They've never got as many boots on the ground as the STW lot or the TUC march of last year. Its gross hyperbole.

I do wonder if the reports coming about aren't motivated by the panicky suspicion that political polarisation and street politics will/do arise during times of economic badness?
Click to expand...

Maybe they don't class STW and the TUC march as "populist"?
 
I really don't know what the motives of Demos were. It's possible they wanted justification for Labour still tilting towards the right on migration and cultural issues. I filled it out with a fair degree of sarky bollocks. 35 to 40k active members is utter nonsense, unless "active" means the occasional online whinge about muslamics. The EDL doesn't even have a membership as such, but Cokeboy used to (stupidly) cite the amount of Faceache likes. Before the page got hacked on St Georges day I think this was running at somewhere over 80k. Which is to say Demos calcualte that slightly less than a half of people who made 1 click qualify as "active". It rather blows the cred out of the water. The rest of what they say is pretty much Dept of The Bleeding Obvious as well. How much did they get paid?
 
It was at just over 100K when he went on Newsnight just after the ABB thingy...

now it's about 18k and a good 20-30 of them are me alone.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
35 to 40k active members is utter nonsense, unless "active" means the occasional online whinge about muslamics......... Before the page got hacked on St Georges day I think this was running at somewhere over 80k.
Click to expand...

I don't know much about Demos but I would humbly suggest that their research and analytical skills are pretty poor.

First off, I would say that if, as they claim, most of their research was done on the internets, they would have quickly ascertained that there was an online campaign to take the piss out of the survey and should have at least made an attempt to calculate what percentage were genuine EDL supporters. Failing that, they should have mentioned that the 1200-odd responses may have contained some from those who would not be described as EDL supporters/sympathisers.

More importantly, the St George's Day hacking of their facebook page has actually given them an ideal opportunity to analyse in greater depth exactly what a 'facebook like' actually means in terms of support. The 80K 'likes' which the EDL initially got, were achieved fairly rapidly and since the hacking, has struggled to reach even a quarter of that number. That in itself shows that in all probability most original 'likes' were effectively a knee jerk reaction to the question "Aren't you outraged by those who burned our poppies?" Also at that time the EDL was new and this was when there was a Sikh Division, a Jewish Division and a number of non-white faces on their marches. Something which drew a clear line between the EDL and other far-right groupings. Because of that a number of people who were genuinely non-racist did and still do support the EDL.

So what happened after their page was hacked? Well what didn't happen was that as soon as the page was re-established, 80,000 people logged on to the EDL facebook page and clicked the 'like' button. So what had happened between then and the halcyon days of 2009?

Well for a start, the majority of EDL demos had ended in violence. This in itself has put much of the 'non-hooligan' support off. The incidents of racist language used on demos has also increased virtually excluding non-white attendance at their rallies. Apart from one black face at the Angles demo at Downing Street, I can't remember the last time I saw a non-white face at an EDL event. Then there was the prevalence of nazi salutes given by EDL supporters at rallies which put off those who were genuinely not part of the far-right political scene. Even their attempts to reduce this was motivated by PR considerations (it looks bad!) rather than political ones (it's wrong!) And then there was the increasing number of criminal cases involving EDL supporters, many of them involving their leader Tommy Robinson. Added to this were the questions being asked as to where the literally tens of thousands of pounds raised by EDL merchandising had gone. Questions were also asked about what support was there, for those increasing numbers of 'ordinary supporters' being dragged through the courts as a result of EDL activities. No cash collections for them. No pickets outside court buildings and no e-petitions started for them, once convicted. This was illustrated perfectly a few months ago, when the partner of someone about to go to court posted an appeal for the details of the local EDL regional organiser as they needed help. This appeal was repeated a number of times over the next week with increasing desperation. You could almost hear the tumbleweeds blowing across the page. And this was the same week the EDL leadership raised over £3000 for Robinson's non-existent hunger strike.

So there are plenty of reasons why the 80K facebook 'likes' were not to return. But I would contend that by far and away the biggest reason for this, was that most of those original 'likes' had no idea that their 'support' was needed again, simply because once they had clicked their original 'like' two years ago, most had never visited an EDL page again. This is a point which has been glaringly overlooked by Demos in their attempt to gauge 'active' support as is their refusal to acknowledge that most supporters north of Nottingham have now defected to the Infidels.

Active support for the EDL? I'd say a more realistic figure was less than 500 now.

john x
 
DotCommunist said:
aye you divined my meaning clear enough. On a wider point the EDL may well be dying on its arse as it is riven with splits and nickings and (bet you a tenner) infiltrated by state. But the polarisation wound up by the exacerbation of existing tensions due to every cunt being poor will no doubt outlive the slaphead sad sacks. I'm all worried.
Click to expand...

yeah and 170 at remembrance, no more than a few hundred the week before, all the splits post tower hamelts and birmingham, the missing money, 'tommy', the fall outs engendered by hel 'hath no fury' gower, etc etc.
 
john x said:
I don't know much about Demos but I would humbly suggest that their research and analytical skills are pretty poor.

First off, I would say that if, as they claim, most of their research was done on the internets, they would have quickly ascertained that there was an online campaign to take the piss out of the survey and should have at least made an attempt to calculate what percentage were genuine EDL supporters. Failing that, they should have mentioned that the 1200-odd responses may have contained some from those who would not be described as EDL supporters/sympathisers.

More importantly, the St George's Day hacking of their facebook page has actually given them an ideal opportunity to analyse in greater depth exactly what a 'facebook like' actually means in terms of support. The 80K 'likes' which the EDL initially got, were achieved fairly rapidly and since the hacking, has struggled to reach even a quarter of that number. That in itself shows that in all probability most original 'likes' were effectively a knee jerk reaction to the question "Aren't you outraged by those who burned our poppies?" Also at that time the EDL was new and this was when there was a Sikh Division, a Jewish Division and a number of non-white faces on their marches. Something which drew a clear line between the EDL and other far-right groupings. Because of that a number of people who were genuinely non-racist did and still do support the EDL.

So what happened after their page was hacked? Well what didn't happen was that as soon as the page was re-established, 80,000 people logged on to the EDL facebook page and clicked the 'like' button. So what had happened between then and the halcyon days of 2009?

Well for a start, the majority of EDL demos had ended in violence. This in itself has put much of the 'non-hooligan' support off. The incidents of racist language used on demos has also increased virtually excluding non-white attendance at their rallies. Apart from one black face at the Angles demo at Downing Street, I can't remember the last time I saw a non-white face at an EDL event. Then there was the prevalence of nazi salutes given by EDL supporters at rallies which put off those who were genuinely not part of the far-right political scene. Even their attempts to reduce this was motivated by PR considerations (it looks bad!) rather than political ones (it's wrong!) And then there was the increasing number of criminal cases involving EDL supporters, many of them involving their leader Tommy Robinson. Added to this were the questions being asked as to where the literally tens of thousands of pounds raised by EDL merchandising had gone. Questions were also asked about what support was there, for those increasing numbers of 'ordinary supporters' being dragged through the courts as a result of EDL activities. No cash collections for them. No pickets outside court buildings and no e-petitions started for them, once convicted. This was illustrated perfectly a few months ago, when the partner of someone about to go to court posted an appeal for the details of the local EDL regional organiser as they needed help. This appeal was repeated a number of times over the next week with increasing desperation. You could almost hear the tumbleweeds blowing across the page. And this was the same week the EDL leadership raised over £3000 for Robinson's non-existent hunger strike.

So there are plenty of reasons why the 80K facebook 'likes' were not to return. But I would contend that by far and away the biggest reason for this, was that most of those original 'likes' had no idea that their 'support' was needed again, simply because once they had clicked their original 'like' two years ago, most had never visited an EDL page again. This is a point which has been glaringly overlooked by Demos in their attempt to gauge 'active' support as is their refusal to acknowledge that most supporters north of Nottingham have now defected to the Infidels.

Active support for the EDL? I'd say a more realistic figure was less than 500 now.

john x
Click to expand...

Demos are very influential especially with Labour and civil servants at DCLG and Home Office
 
Fingers said:
Rafferty has been sacked

http://twitpic.com/7ezu6t

But he has just issued a statement claiming they can't sack him and he is going to sack them

There is a coup going on within the ranks of the CxF. Fantasic stuff!
Click to expand...

It's like they are playing soldiers or something. Where do they get off talking about a council and a figure head there are only about 50 of them! They're hardly the UVF.
 
The39thStep said:
If that is the case then what are the anti fascist's tactics?
Click to expand...

feck, it just took me ages to find this steps! here we go:
For further discussion!
A national united front of militants needs to be organised to respond to and counter fascist activity. This is not to be a sole purpose as there are other things going on after all.
Anarchists, leftists, local socialists etc, who are up for physical opposition can work together in local groups who agree that physical opposition is the task at hand. AFA did!
On a micro-level: local action needs to be decided by consensus and groups should have rotating duties: phone networking, propaganda, websites, chairing etc.
Physical opposition is needed when situations like Newcastle etc have occurred. EDL/Infidels flash demos are not a major threat but they will take liberties which we need to counter.
If possible, links with militant local Muslim youth who are game (depends where you are).
No party politics, single issue only, no paper sellers. Anti-fascist front first!
Community resistance needs developing in certain areas (Leeds, Newcastle, London) and also groups to steward meetings, demos etc, if attacks are likely (Brighton, Leeds gig etc).
There are possible militants in SWP, UAF etc and meetings can be attended to check for ‘candidates.’ We know what we are looking for.
At the moment electorally the BNP are knacked and have lost credibility (and ££££s). The far right are divided between the alphabetti spaghetti of ED, Fluffy BF, UKIP etc and some of the more disappointed BNP have gone over to the NF who are still weak. However, the fluffier brands of ‘nationalism’ are small and rely on single issue voting and are unlikely to make serious inroads like the BNP once did. It’s an anti-EU/’Muslamics’ votes.
There is no reason for not having an informal network of local antifascists to respond to events and to be in contact with others around UK to mobilise en masse for larger events, and regionally for others.

okay, i'm ready! x
 
malatesta32 said:
feck, it just took me ages to find this steps! here we go:
For further discussion!
A national united front of militants needs to be organised to respond to and counter fascist activity. This is not to be a sole purpose as there are other things going on after all.
Anarchists, leftists, local socialists etc, who are up for physical opposition can work together in local groups who agree that physical opposition is the task at hand. AFA did!
On a micro-level: local action needs to be decided by consensus and groups should have rotating duties: phone networking, propaganda, websites, chairing etc.
Physical opposition is needed when situations like Newcastle etc have occurred. EDL/Infidels flash demos are not a major threat but they will take liberties which we need to counter.
If possible, links with militant local Muslim youth who are game (depends where you are).
No party politics, single issue only, no paper sellers. Anti-fascist front first!
Community resistance needs developing in certain areas (Leeds, Newcastle, London) and also groups to steward meetings, demos etc, if attacks are likely (Brighton, Leeds gig etc).
There are possible militants in SWP, UAF etc and meetings can be attended to check for ‘candidates.’ We know what we are looking for.
At the moment electorally the BNP are knacked and have lost credibility (and ££££s). The far right are divided between the alphabetti spaghetti of ED, Fluffy BF, UKIP etc and some of the more disappointed BNP have gone over to the NF who are still weak. However, the fluffier brands of ‘nationalism’ are small and rely on single issue voting and are unlikely to make serious inroads like the BNP once did. It’s an anti-EU/’Muslamics’ votes.
There is no reason for not having an informal network of local antifascists to respond to events and to be in contact with others around UK to mobilise en masse for larger events, and regionally for others.

okay, i'm ready! x
Click to expand...

All very good - but what about a political formation that can address the reasons a substantial and frankly growing (despite what HnH and the like claim) section of the working class are willing to vote for and publically hitch their colours to the mast of a clearly populist racist nationalist party, rather than looking to progressive class based politics for answers?

The BNP may be in the middle of a long predicted by many implosion but that is due to a complex set of reasons - none of which are connected to electoral oblvion (other than possibly contributing to it) but the large group that vote or have voted for them haven't gone away or expressed any change in basic politics as far as I can see.

Certainly in Newcastle and the North East we do not need community resistance to a gaggle of far right hooligan clowns, paedos, alkies, and tattooist bikers - we need effective community resistance to the massive attacks on our living standards, services, jobs, and dignity, and it needs to unite people on a progressive class basis/
 
I
malatesta32 said:
feck, it just took me ages to find this steps! here we go:
For further discussion!
A national united front of militants needs to be organised to respond to and counter fascist activity. This is not to be a sole purpose as there are other things going on after all.
Anarchists, leftists, local socialists etc, who are up for physical opposition can work together in local groups who agree that physical opposition is the task at hand. AFA did!
On a micro-level: local action needs to be decided by consensus and groups should have rotating duties: phone networking, propaganda, websites, chairing etc.
Physical opposition is needed when situations like Newcastle etc have occurred. EDL/Infidels flash demos are not a major threat but they will take liberties which we need to counter.
If possible, links with militant local Muslim youth who are game (depends where you are).
No party politics, single issue only, no paper sellers. Anti-fascist front first!
Community resistance needs developing in certain areas (Leeds, Newcastle, London) and also groups to steward meetings, demos etc, if attacks are likely (Brighton, Leeds gig etc).
There are possible militants in SWP, UAF etc and meetings can be attended to check for ‘candidates.’ We know what we are looking for.
At the moment electorally the BNP are knacked and have lost credibility (and ££££s). The far right are divided between the alphabetti spaghetti of ED, Fluffy BF, UKIP etc and some of the more disappointed BNP have gone over to the NF who are still weak. However, the fluffier brands of ‘nationalism’ are small and rely on single issue voting and are unlikely to make serious inroads like the BNP once did. It’s an anti-EU/’Muslamics’ votes.
There is no reason for not having an informal network of local antifascists to respond to events and to be in contact with others around UK to mobilise en masse for larger events, and regionally for others.

okay, i'm ready! x
Click to expand...

I've been part of an organisation in Manchester that has been trying that for the past two years and I'm now beginning to question its practicality and usefulness.

I think the key issue has been said by Spanky Longhorn.
 
Rafferty seems to have retaken control of CxF and has booted people smuggler Alan Cleverley who it seems instigated it. Rafferty is not giving up power as he claims he owns the trademark 'CxF'.
 
malatesta32 said:
feck, it just took me ages to find this steps! here we go:
For further discussion!
A national united front of militants needs to be organised to respond to and counter fascist activity. This is not to be a sole purpose as there are other things going on after all.
Anarchists, leftists, local socialists etc, who are up for physical opposition can work together in local groups who agree that physical opposition is the task at hand. AFA did!
On a micro-level: local action needs to be decided by consensus and groups should have rotating duties: phone networking, propaganda, websites, chairing etc.
Physical opposition is needed when situations like Newcastle etc have occurred. EDL/Infidels flash demos are not a major threat but they will take liberties which we need to counter.
If possible, links with militant local Muslim youth who are game (depends where you are).
No party politics, single issue only, no paper sellers. Anti-fascist front first!
Community resistance needs developing in certain areas (Leeds, Newcastle, London) and also groups to steward meetings, demos etc, if attacks are likely (Brighton, Leeds gig etc).
There are possible militants in SWP, UAF etc and meetings can be attended to check for ‘candidates.’ We know what we are looking for.
At the moment electorally the BNP are knacked and have lost credibility (and ££££s). The far right are divided between the alphabetti spaghetti of ED, Fluffy BF, UKIP etc and some of the more disappointed BNP have gone over to the NF who are still weak. However, the fluffier brands of ‘nationalism’ are small and rely on single issue voting and are unlikely to make serious inroads like the BNP once did. It’s an anti-EU/’Muslamics’ votes.
There is no reason for not having an informal network of local antifascists to respond to events and to be in contact with others around UK to mobilise en masse for larger events, and regionally for others.

okay, i'm ready! x
Click to expand...

Its just one dimensional anti fascism Malatesta with no local political alternative for the white working class.
 
steps, whaddya want? a miracle? i voted for mr dave and sepp blatter says theres no racism anywhere in the world ever, so we're fine.
seriously: i dont think the far right present an electoral threat, they are annoying when they come to yr town and need to be told! i wd be interested in what the IWCA folks on here think of their strategy - for this and also for the 'malatesta' book. i really don't know on that side of things.
 
malatesta32 said:
steps, whaddya want? a miracle? i voted for mr dave and sepp blatter says theres no racism anywhere in the world ever, so we're fine.
seriously: i dont think the far right present an electoral threat, they are annoying when they come to yr town and need to be told! i wd be interested in what the IWCA folks on here think of their strategy - for this and also for the 'malatesta' book. i really don't know on that side of things.
Click to expand...

are you sure you should be writing a book..........just yet?:rolleyes:
 
Yes. It's 'the working class'. Although Joe Reilly will probably be the first to admit that it's predominantly the white working class who join fascist organisations. That doesn't mean the left suddenly has a rights for whites campaign. It's been done already.
 
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