EDL watch

[butchersapron]

Flicking through the panicky demos report Inside the edl:

Key findings
We estimate the total size of the active membership to be at least 25,000–35,000 people

The received wisdom that the EDL is a street based movement comprised of young thugs needs to be revised Supporters are older and more educated than many assume: 28 per cent are over 30; 30 per cent are educated to university or college level

They are disproportionately likely to be out of work

The EDL contains democrats

Immigration is the biggest concern among EDL supporters

The BNP is the most popular political party among EDL supporters

Supporters have low levels of ‘social capital’ and high levels of pessimism

Supporters join the EDL because of a combination of opposition to Islam or Islamism, and to preserve national and cultural values

Supporters demonstrate for the EDL because of a sense of injustice and pessimism combined with a belief that politics can make a difference

 

[Pickman's model]

of course they're disproportionately likely to be out of work. they're disproportionately likely to be pissed as fuck by opening.

 

[john x]

Flicking through the panicky demos report Inside the edl:

which comprises responses from 1,295 sympathisers and supporters,

I know at least 10 people who filled in that questionnaire*. If you extrapolate that, how many real EDL supporters actually contributed? Also as far as the degree of education of the average EDL supporters is assessed, the questionnaire itself filters out those who don't like 'filling in forms because it is too complicated'.

john x

*Just to point out that none of these people was an EDL sympathiser/supporter.

 

[TruXta]

Flicking through the panicky demos report Inside the edl:

Key findings
We estimate the total size of the active membership to be at least 25,000–35,000 people

The received wisdom that the EDL is a street based movement comprised of young thugs needs to be revised Supporters are older and more educated than many assume: 28 per cent are over 30; 30 per cent are educated to university or college level

They are disproportionately likely to be out of work

The EDL contains democrats

Immigration is the biggest concern among EDL supporters

The BNP is the most popular political party among EDL supporters

Supporters have low levels of ‘social capital’ and high levels of pessimism

Supporters join the EDL because of a combination of opposition to Islam or Islamism, and to preserve national and cultural values

Supporters demonstrate for the EDL because of a sense of injustice and pessimism combined with a belief that politics can make a difference

Seems like an awfully high number. What do they base it on?

 

[butchersapron]

Seems like an awfully high number. What do they base it on?

The internet!

 

[LLETSA]

Supporters have low levels of ‘social capital’ and high levels of pessimism

Don't we all.

 

[TruXta]

The internet!

What, did they count the number of members on their FB pages?

 

[DotCommunist]

Don't we all.

lol

 

[butchersapron]

What, did they count the number of members on their FB pages?

Pretty much, see from page 16 onwards.

 

[TruXta]

Pretty much, see from page 16 onwards.

Sorry, haven't got time to read it, and tbh not the inclination either. That's incredibly shoddy research if what you say is the case.

 

[Red Storm]

The EDL contains democrats

Really don't get this statement. Are they saying most EDL members support dictatorship or the GOP?

 

[butchersapron]

People who believe in representative parliamentary democracy - voting etc

 

[Red Storm]

People who believe in representative parliamentary democracy - voting etc

The way you put it implies that most don't, is that the case?

 

[The39thStep]

Flicking through the panicky demos report Inside the edl:

Key findings
We estimate the total size of the active membership to be at least 25,000–35,000 people

The received wisdom that the EDL is a street based movement comprised of young thugs needs to be revised Supporters are older and more educated than many assume: 28 per cent are over 30; 30 per cent are educated to university or college level

They are disproportionately likely to be out of work

The EDL contains democrats

Immigration is the biggest concern among EDL supporters

The BNP is the most popular political party among EDL supporters

Supporters have low levels of ‘social capital’ and high levels of pessimism

Supporters join the EDL because of a combination of opposition to Islam or Islamism, and to preserve national and cultural values

Supporters demonstrate for the EDL because of a sense of injustice and pessimism combined with a belief that politics can make a difference

This is pretty much a rehash of Goodwins research on the far right. Not sure that it would be too diffrent if they did the same with the cobweb left and anarchists to be honest

 

[butchersapron]

The way you put it implies that most don't, is that the case?

What the report is addressing is the perception that some people outside the group have of them as supporting some form of fascist or authoritarian regime. It's pointing out that (based on their research) a clear majority believe in those things i listed.

 

[butchersapron]

This is pretty much a rehash of Goodwins research on the far right. Not sure that it would be too diffrent if they did the same with the cobweb left and anarchists to be honest

There's laods of these around at the minute. Copesey did one too.

 

[Red Storm]

What the report is addressing is the perception that some people outside the group have of them as supporting some form of fascist or authoritarian regime. It's pointing out that (based on their research) a clear majority believe in those things i listed.

Right that's what I would have thought. I just misinterpreted how you wrote it.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

What, did they count the number of members on their FB pages?

the important thing to realise in the context of that report (which is something that the authors themselves acknowledge) is that there is no formal membership mechanism for the EDL, so they hazard a guess as to the number of "supporters" from simple metrics on facebook and the more in-depth follow up interviews.

 

[Stoat Boy]

Out of interest what do you all make of the opening line...

"The English Defence League (EDL) is the biggest populist street movement in a generation".

Hyperbole or fact ?

 

[Corax]

I've only skimmed certain sections so far, but I've not found anything in their methodology to take account of bullshitting as yet.

 

[DotCommunist]

Out of interest what do you all make of the opening line...

"The English Defence League (EDL) is the biggest populist street movement in a generation".

Hyperbole or fact ?

They've never got as many boots on the ground as the STW lot or the TUC march of last year. Its gross hyperbole.

I do wonder if the reports coming about aren't motivated by the panicky suspicion that political polarisation and street politics will/do arise during times of economic badness?

 

[Corax]

They've never got as many boots on the ground as the STW lot or the TUC march of last year. Its gross hyperbole.

I do wonder if the reports coming about aren't motivated by the panicky suspicion that political polarisation and street politics will/do arise during times of economic badness?

Dunno what 'motivated' means in that context, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't the case that as movements grow in times of economic shite they catch the eye of researchers more at those times.

 

[audiotech]

@ Stoatboy

A claim here that puts NF membership at 21,000 in 1975. Doubtful? The figure of 14,000 in '77 would be about right.

Scholars agree that the British Union of Fascists had somewhere in the region of 40,000 at its peak in 1934.

To add (I know they had removed themselves from the streets): The BNP claimed in May 2010 that it '"crashed through" to over 14,000 members for the first time in its history', but that's not the first time in history that the BNP have lied about its membership figures.

 

[Red Storm]

They've never got as many boots on the ground as the STW lot or the TUC march of last year. Its gross hyperbole.

I do wonder if the reports coming about aren't motivated by the panicky suspicion that political polarisation and street politics will/do arise during times of economic badness?

The student demonstrations was a movement about 5 times larger than the EDL. UKUncut would be in the running for being bigger too. Before the anti-fees student movement I'd say that the EDL was probably the largest street movement. I don't know how long a period of time that was off the top of my head but it ended on the 10/11/10.

I suppose it's how you're defining "popularist" though.

 

[Delroy Booth]

I know at least 10 people who filled in that questionnaire*. If you extrapolate that, how many real EDL supporters actually contributed? Also as far as the degree of education of the average EDL supporters is assessed, the questionnaire itself filters out those who don't like 'filling in forms because it is too complicated'.

john x

*Just to point out that none of these people was an EDL sympathiser/supporter.

I filled it in, remember it well.

 

[DotCommunist]

Dunno what 'motivated' means in that context, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't the case that as movements grow in times of economic shite they catch the eye of researchers more at those times.

motivated as in interested people undertake analysis due to social conditions being similar to other times when street politics have come to the fore, leading to analysis by people who are thinking about history and so on. I am no expert though so there i every chance my hypothesis is bollocks

 

[Corax]

motivated as in interested people undertake analysis due to social conditions being similar to other times when street politics have come to the fore, leading to analysis by people who are thinking about history and so on. I am no expert though so there i every chance my hypothesis is bollocks

Sounds pretty much like what I wrote in the post you quoted. Sorry - I wasn't having a dig or anything, just wasn't sure what you meant by motivated in that context.

 

[audiotech]

This is Zizek quoting Gramsci in a recent televised debate, that bears some relevance to what is happening in the world right now:

"The old world is dying away, and the new world struggles to come forth, now is the time of monsters." What about the monsters we are engendering now? Perhaps there is no direct passage to the new? Perhaps we have to go through a time of monsters?

But he also mentioned Orwell who said that 'intellectuals cheat'.

 

[john x]

We estimate the total size of the active membership to be at least 25,000–
35,000 people
Of these, around half have been involved in demonstrations and/or
marches.

Oh really?

How do you work that out then?

john x

 

[DotCommunist]

Sounds pretty much like what I wrote in the post you quoted. Sorry - I wasn't having a dig or anything, just wasn't sure what you meant by motivated in that context.

aye you divined my meaning clear enough. On a wider point the EDL may well be dying on its arse as it is riven with splits and nickings and (bet you a tenner) infiltrated by state. But the polarisation wound up by the exacerbation of existing tensions due to every cunt being poor will no doubt outlive the slaphead sad sacks. I'm all worried.