EDL watch

[past caring]

'When it's a large group of Millwall supporters, in a pub all day, talking about doing the police's job for them, it creates the impression that they're spoiling for a fight, opportunistically – using the chaos to bust into a racial confrontation that they normally wouldn't be permitted, in a metaphorical echo of the looters they're determined to stop.'

DD, you are in good company, Guardian liberal Zoe Williams also smears a whole community,

try doing this with any other group, you won't..

Not having a pop at you, but in fact Ms Williams does precisely this in the piece you quote - the clear implication of "in a metaphorical echo of the looters they're determined to stop" is that the looters are, if not exclusively black, as near as dammit as makes no difference. Scratch a fucking liberal.....

 

[past caring]

And treelover - as for the other stuff and you're continued "Muslim extremist" schtick, it's just as tiresome now as it was before it all kicked off.

Do you shave by the way?

 

[cantsin]

And treelover - as for the other stuff and you're continued "Muslim extremist" schtick, it's just as tiresome now as it was before it all kicked off.

Do you shave by the way?

 

[cantsin]

JamesAbb5 James Abbott
the amazing thing is the real "chav scum" on the BBC in Manchester are white english people. #ukriots

KWAMEtheRapperr Thebe Kgositsile
white girls are the scum of the earth lol
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply

annio3 Annio3
"@solaar: MUSLIM BROTHERS: LET US ACHIEVE EQUAL RIGHTS BY DESTROYING THE WHITE MAN'S WORLD! LOOT HIS POSSESSIONS & TORCH ALL HE LOVES > Scum
7 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

comments online...

even by your piss poor standards, this is just too feeble...

 

[treelover]

Sorry PC, but if we are going to discuss nationalist fundamentalists we need to look at the other fundies...

or are you trying to close down debate on the issues..

 

[Ranbay]

David cameron just said there is none sicker than the EDL, was on TV like.

 

[past caring]

Sorry PC, but if we are going to discuss nationalist fundamentalists we need to look at the other fundies...

or are you trying to close down debate on the issues..

Taking the piss out of your hysterical wittering is closing the debate down now?

p.s. - repeatedly posting up evidence of that which we already know (that there are right-wing Muslim fundies out there, as well as racist EDL ones - and that there are Walter Mitty types sympathetic to both extremes) isn't actually "debate". That would be something more along the lines of trying to assess their strength, their potential for growth and the consequent danger they present. And, if that assessment was one of a real danger, then discussing what to do about it. When you actually feel like participating in genuine debate I'm sure the rest of us will be all ears.

p.p.s. - you still haven't answered my question about shaving?

 

[Ranbay]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14488247

 

[Ranbay]

1328:

Labour MP Clive Efford claims extremist groups in Eltham, south-east London, are trying to stir up racial tensions. The PM says no part of society is "sicker" than the English Defence League.

 

[skitr]

I think it's fair to call them EDL when they're reported to be walking down the street singing EDL.

 

[ddraig]

'When it's a large group of Millwall supporters, in a pub all day, talking about doing the police's job for them, it creates the impression that they're spoiling for a fight, opportunistically – using the chaos to bust into a racial confrontation that they normally wouldn't be permitted, in a metaphorical echo of the looters they're determined to stop.'

DD, you are in good company, Guardian liberal Zoe Williams also smears a whole community,

try doing this with any other group, you won't..

is that to me?
if so
have you even been to eltham? do you know what it is like around there?
have you felt the tension, bullshit and bravado?
i felt it and it is weird and scary, and i am a white bloke.

do i need to caveat that "of course not all the people of eltham are racist scum" ??

 

[ddraig]

and in the bit you quoted it clearly says "creates the impression"
and i agree with what you've quoted

 

[past caring]

Because Millwall fans are racist?

 

[ddraig]

again
i used to live and work in se london and came across enough of them
another caveat -OF COURSE NOT ALL ARE
but ime and off the top of my head way over 50% of the ones i met/worked with/came across (that made it known they were fans) were vocally and often proudly so

 

[past caring]

A couple of points;

My experience - as someone who supports Millwall, goes to games, who, if not born in the area, has lived in SE London since a kid, who still lives in the area, is that your percentage is somewhat high. But we'll go with yours;

If 50% aren't racist - what message do you think an assumption that they must be racist because they support Millwall gives out? What effect is this likely to have? When thinking about your answer, try to bear in mind the very particular tribalism that supporting Millwall involves.

 

[ddraig]

durrr
that it spreads and breeds a sense of "well if they are gonna treat us like cahnts then we moight as wew act laik cahnts, init bruv, ave it!"
and the decent "sawlt ov tha erf" supporters who work hard at battling the assumption by some (not me) give up and go to the other side, as they might as well

something like that?
did i do well?

 

[ViolentPanda]

A couple of points;

My experience - as someone who supports Millwall, goes to games, who, if not born in the area, has lived in SE London since a kid, who still lives in the area, is that your percentage is somewhat high. But we'll go with yours;

If 50% aren't racist - what message do you think an assumption that they must be racist because they support Millwall gives out? What effect is this likely to have? When thinking about your answer, try to bear in mind the very particular tribalism that supporting Millwall involves.

This true. No-one loves you, and you pretend not to care.

 

[krink]

My experience - as someone who supports Millwall, goes to games...If 50% aren't racist - what message do you think an assumption that they must be racist because they support Millwall gives out?

Excellent point. In my experience of football I have no idea what percentage of fans of my team are racist but it does seem almost 100% of the gobshites at football are! May I also send my commiserations on having to support Millwall.

Sunderland, mate. Now that's a team.

 

[Deareg]

Of the admittedly few Millwall fans that I have met only one was a racist and I believe that had more to do with him being a first class idiot than any bad intentions on his part.

 

[past caring]

durrr
that it spreads and breeds a sense of "well if they are gonna treat us like cahnts then we moight as wew act laik cahnts, init bruv, ave it!"
and the decent "sawlt ov tha erf" supporters who work hard at battling the assumption by some (not me) give up and go to the other side, as they might as well

something like that?
did i do well?

If this was you demonstrating your "free from assumption and stereotype" thinking, then I'm afraid not.

More seriously, no - it's a different dynamic, I think. Both the racist and the non-racist supporter recognise when they're being stereotyped, when supposed "liberals" in the media and elsewhere are happy to trot out the tired cliches of Millwall fans all being thugs and racists - and crucially they both react the same. It is not the case that the racist says "Yeah, we're Millwall and racist - it's great" and the non-racist says "Oh, but we're not all like that".

They both say - "Fuck off you patronising middle-class cunt. No-one likes, we don't care."
And by giving new life to and re-enforcing that point of unity, you make it much harder for the non-racist to challenge the racist.

 

[ddraig]

oooh
close tho eh!

 

[Treacle Toes]

Of the admittedly few Millwall fans that I have met only one was a racist and I believe that had more to do with him being a first class idiot than any bad intentions on his part.

I am absolutely sick of this kind of dismissive excuse. IMO you are part of the problem and do nothing to challenge it. In practice your approach condones overt and casual racism. Well done!

What would he have to do or say for you to actually acknowledge the 'bad' part of being a racist?

I worked at Millwall as a steward during the 90's. It was not safe or pleasant even in the family enclosure. Stop making excuses please. It is utterly annoying.

 

[Deareg]

I am absolutely sick of this kind of dismissive excuse. What would he have to do or say for you to actually acknowledge the 'bad' part of being a racist?

I worked at Millwall as a steward during the 90's. It was not safe or pleasant even in the family enclosure. Stop making excuses please. It is utterly annoying.

He was the sort of prick who read the sun and actually believed it, he was so easy to embarrass into silence that he was not even worth falling out with, I am not dismissive of racists or the effects of racism, I was speaking of him as an idiot because that is what he was.

 

[Treacle Toes]

He was the sort of prick who read the sun and actually believed it, he was so easy to embarrass into silence that he was not even worth falling out with, I am not dismissive of racists or the effects of racism, I was speaking of him as an idiot because that is what he was.

You also said:

I believe that had more to do with him being a first class idiot than any bad intentions on his part.

You are dismissing racism and the effects of it IMO. Answer my question please: What would he have to do or say for you to actually acknowledge the 'bad' part of being a racist?

 

[Deareg]

You also said:

You are dismissing racism and the effects of it IMO. Answer my question please: What would he have to do or say for you to actually acknowledge the 'bad' part of being a racist?

I wasn't intending too be dismissive, and I never actually said or meant that there was no bad part too racism, I said that he had no bad intentions, if he read something in the Sun he believed it and would repeat it before being torn to shreds. For me to acknowledge the bad part of being a racist all he would have had to do was use for a second time some kind of racist word, which he never did after being warned the first time he did it.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I wasn't intending too be dismissive, and I never actually said or meant that there was no bad part too racism, I said that he had no bad intentions, if he read something in the Sun he believed it and would repeat it before being torn to shreds. For me to acknowledge the bad part of being a racist all he would have had to do was use for a second time some kind of racist word, which he never did after being warned the first time he did it.

If he was so innocent, just parroting from what he read in the Scum, and didn't repeat stuff once he was told, why are you calling him a racist?

Of the admittedly few Millwall fans that I have met only one was a racist

 

[Deareg]

If he was so innocent, just parroting from what he read in the Scum, and didn't repeat stuff once he was told, why are you calling him a racist?

Because the first day that I worked with him he used a racist word to refer to some Asians.

 

[Ranbay]

 

[Ranbay]

Eltham EDL on Channel 4 News tonight im told.

 

[claphamboy]

Eltham EDL on Channel 4 News tonight im told.

Cheers, for the heads-up on that.