East Brixton station (formerly Lougborough Park): abandoned station off Coldharbour Lane

[OpalFruit]

I agree with Lang Rabbie.

The other issues are more complex than 'better transport increases house prices and shaft the poor and the windrush generation' (meant as a short precis, not a dismissive parody).

Some of the Windrush generation in my family moved away because they wanted exactly the same things that the current genertion of property buyers want - good schools, less exposure to crime / drug dealers, and especially not to be associated with the more violent / drug-based opportunists. It wasn't poverty that forced them out.

Really poor people are not concerned with house prices, anyway. Even though Brixton is still lower than most other close-to-central London areas, home-owning has been out of reach for those living below the average wage.

The demographics of the area show high levels of unemployment, particularly male and single - parent families (no judgment on their situation, must that it is economically harder). Lambeth also has a high ratio of residential to business and commercial property. What is needed is better education, better access to jobs, and more social housing. I don't see how a new transport links blocks these, and would surely increase the chnaces of people travelling to work, and attracting employers into the area.

 

[newbie]

I agree with Lang Rabbie.

The other issues are more complex than 'better transport increases house prices and shaft the poor and the windrush generation' (meant as a short precis, not a dismissive parody).

aye but even that level of complexity is better than the "sure beats a 37 bus" that we started with (also not intended as a dismissive parody).

Really poor people are not concerned with house prices, anyway. Even though Brixton is still lower than most other close-to-central London areas, home-owning has been out of reach for those living below the average wage.

True, but those who grow up here are increasingly unable to compete with high achieving incomers to rent or buy and stay in the area.

 

[newbie]

It will NOT run to tube frequencies
It will NOT have tube-type trains

Phase 2 (which is what we're talking about) is expected to run 16 trains each way per hour. Every 4 minutes isn't far off tube frequencies.
source

 

[OpalFruit]

aye but even that level of complexity is better than the "sure beats a 37 bus" that we started with (also not intended as a dismissive parody).

I also agree (with you, I think) that it is worth examining the motives, aims and objectives of those proposing a scheme, as well as all the potential effects, whatever they may be.
But I have seen much potentially beneficial action in Brixton in effect filibustered due to lengthy drawn out inability to make a decision, or collapsing in a chaos of in-fighting.

 

[Pickman's model]

...

 

[newbie]

But I have seen much potentially beneficial action in Brixton in effect filibustered due to lengthy drawn out inability to make a decision, or collapsing in a chaos of in-fighting.

so true (along with corruption, incompetence and worse). There's still a need to scrutinise the benefits, costs and consequences of change though, because there are plenty of examples of change which has been done to this community and not for, or from, it.

 

[lang rabbie]

Phase 2 (which is what we're talking about) is expected to run 16 trains each way per hour. Every 4 minutes isn't far off tube frequencies.
source

What that refers to is the number of trains to all destinations served by the various branches of the southern ELL extension through the existing tunnel under the Thames...

This equates to 12 trains per hour in each direction through the centre section. When phase two is delivered, the frequency will increase to 16 trains an hour. Phase one is expected to be in place by June 2010.

i.e. the route through Brixton gets 4 trains an hour - not a train every four minutes!

 

[Pickman's model]

fair enough, really, considering brixton's hardly ill-served by publick transport.

 

[newbie]

i.e. the route through Brixton gets 4 trains an hour - not a train every four minutes!

 

[citydreams]

Anyone got £15 million??!!

In a letter to Mr Hoon, Mr Johnson wrote: "I urge you to agree to this £15.5million contribution at the earliest opportunity." The extension to Clapham Junction would deliver "significant benefits for a relatively deprived area," he said.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...ail link/article.do?expand=true#StartComments

 

[editor]

Without a new station interchange at Brixton, t'is rubbish.

 

[citydreams]

Agreed..

Any idea how much extra is needed for that to happen?

Any news on the Brixton Master Plan?

 

[ajdown]

fair enough, really, considering brixton's hardly ill-served by publick transport.

It can be ill served depending on where you're trying to get to, or if the Victoria line is out again.

 

[Crispy]

What isn't clear is whether anyone has ever looked at the feasibility of running them along the "Low Level" (SE&CR) line?

The 1894 map of Brixton shows that the low level station used to have four platforms:

one of which used to be built out into Brixton Station Road:

These two northern platforms were served by trains running east-west, although (not having a Bradshaw's Railway Comapanion of the era to hand) I'm not sure of their exact pattern of services.

Once the timetabling "slots" for Eurostar trains are no longer required when the terminus move from Waterloo to Kings Cross (from 2008?), I would have thought that more flexible timetabling allowing trains to move between the two sets of tracks between Brixton and Clapham High Street has to be a possibility.

[Edited add: removes anorak before going to pub]

*picks up anorak*

So, fellow spods, why can't we do this? (existing phase 2 route in single orange line)

Add a flat junction inbetween Denmark Hill and Brixton, and reopen platforms on Brixton Station Road.

Who's got detailed train frequency knowledge?

And yes, I am drawing south london's rail network for fun

 

[prunus]

Crispy I think I love you.

Anyway, and given it's been a three year bump on this thread I can't remember whether it was discussed, but could they not open the old East Brixton platforms more easily perhaps?

 

[Crispy]

There's nothing left of East Brixton station - it would have to be all new platforms. And it's not as handy for interchange.
New platforms at Loughborough Junction are even harder to fit in btw. Railway platforms are long things...

 

[ajdown]

Railway platforms are long things...

I think the carriages on the type of units that pass that way are 23.5m long? A typical 8 carriage train would need a minimum of 188m (more like 200m probably) for a platform.

 

[Crispy]

The ELL trains are going to be 4-car units, so as long as main line trains won't be using the station, we can get away with 100m.

 

[lang rabbie]

And yes, I am drawing south london's rail network for fun

(((Crispy)))

 

[editor]

There's nothing left of East Brixton station - it would have to be all new platforms. And it's not as handy for interchange.
New platforms at Loughborough Junction are even harder to fit in btw. Railway platforms are long things...

The problem with East Brixton was that the platforms were very narrow and the line is (apparently) on quite a slope.

 

[laptop]

*picks up anorak*

So, fellow spods, why can't we do this? (existing phase 2 route in single orange line)

Add a flat junction inbetween Denmark Hill and Brixton, and reopen platforms on Brixton Station Road.

Who's got detailed train frequency knowledge?

And yes, I am drawing south london's rail network for fun

Taking the length of the junction West of Peckham Rye [satellite] you'd be pushed to fit one between the underbridge ironwork where you've drawn it [here]. (Is it a camera artefact, or is there a nasty wobbly viaduct just east of there?)

You could squeeze one in [here] but I mean "squeeze" - it'd butt straight onto an existing crossover.

If I read the photo correctly - a big if - [here] is a possibility.

But, again, it's fairly close to other junctions, so I fear you may have to double or treble the impact on available paths compared to a new flat junction in open country.

 

[Crispy]

Actually, looking at the satellite, there's scope for the junction just after you come out of the Denmark Hill bridge.

 

[hipipol]

The cheapest and simplest solution is simply to reinstate the old platforms
However, it would mean points being laid on the bridge over the Blackfirars Herne Hill line(cheaper and more dangerous method) or by building flyover bridges - a bit tight on the old space along that line - unless it is done, before Denmark hill
I was looking at it on the way into work yeaterday- the prob being that some of the park, Warwick Gardens, would be lost - but then at one point that was going to be where the tunnelk for Eurostar was possibly going to emerge- dont recall much by the way of local opposition

Heres where I mean

 

[lang rabbie]

I was looking at it on the way into work yeaterday- the prob being that some of the park, Warwick Gardens, would be lost - but then at one point that was going to be where the tunnelk for Eurostar was possibly going to emerge- dont recall much by the way of local opposition

Peckham Against the Rail Link (PEARL) were one of the most succesful campaign groups I've encountered.

The campaigns against the Link were largely successful. The current route through London is the most acceptable route for many campaigning groups. The Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration reported in 1995 that one of the reasons for abandoning the route through Peckham, originally selected out of the four original proposals and abandoned in 1993, was the high levels of public opposition it aroused and which would have made it almost impossible for BR to secure planning permission. The success of the PEARL campaign can be attributed to the persistence of the campaigning group and the professional skills which it deployed:
‘I think the success of the organisation was that there were a lot of people round here of considerable acumen. It was not difficult to find lawyers, barristers and architects and professional people, all of whom were very able
both to organise and to make themselves heard ... Many people regard it as one of the most effective campaigns, ever really. I've heard it said many times that it was a model of how a campaign should be organised.’
(Kinrade interview, 2001).
PEARL capitalised on the strength of local feeling, and upon the skills and talents of professional people in the local community. The campaign was organised into a main committee, and had events, legal, technical and publicity sub-committees. The group held many successful events, including public meetings, fetes and fairs. On one occasion, Kinrade dressed as Father Christmas and presented Trafalgar House (the building contractors) with a huge Christmas card signed by thousands of opponents of the Link
through Warwick Gardens.
‘Everything was done with great vigour. Lots of stunts. Lots of things which embarrassed British Rail, and made them feel very uncomfortable. Because they were, after all, really only officials doing a job. And I think they had not anticipated that there would be very much protest. I think that they thought they'd got a soft option really in south London. Old property. I think it came as a great shock that they met this level of resistance’
(Kinrade interview, 2001).
PEARL still exists nominally today, and many of the people who were involved in the campaign remain residents of the area. The committee still hold meetings, although these are now very infrequent and have mainly been to discuss how its funds will be disbursed. Kinrade is unwilling to let PEARL disband completely :
‘PEARL is still here because we never quite got rid of the idea that something might go wrong, and they might change their minds and so part of the continuity of PEARL has simply been ‘we never know’. Perhaps it would be as well to stay at least in moribund, so we can resurrect it if we have to.’ (Kinrade interview, 2001).
The campaign against the CTRL can, in retrospect be seen as a turning point in the recovery of the identity of south east London as an urban environment worth saving and a series of communities worth preserving, rather than simply a run-down area with concentrated social deprivation, the poor relation in London’s renaissance. We cannot confidently compare local environmentalism before and after the CTRL campaign, but our examination of the later period shows that south east London is now home to a rich and diverse range of environmental activism and defies the generalisation that environmentalism does not flourish in socially deprived urban areas.

Rootes, Adams, Saunders: Local environmental politics in England, University of Kent 2001

 

[hipipol]

Oh my

And I lived just round the corner at the time....suspect twas in my wasted to fuck period!!!

Having examined the crossover just after Peckham Rye just this morning I realise there is actually no need for the bridges at all
The line to North Dulcih, Gypsy Hill etc already crosses tha London Bridge-Victoria line, a relaying of those points to permit cossing to the Catford - Victoria tracks as there is already a crossover in the other direction used by freight traffic would concentrate all at one point - thus reducing like fuck ups

 

[PacificOcean]

I wonder why they never built a station at Brixton in the first place?

It also takes a strange detour from Victoria to Wandsworth Road via Battersea Park unlike the other lines going south east from Victoria,

I assume Wandsworth Road and Clapham High Street used to be four platform stations as I saw a very old picture of Wandsworth Road station advertising trains Victoria, St. Pauls & Ludgate Hill and trains "to the coast".

 

[ska invita]

When I was working in Brixton it was really annoying having to get buses from Lewisham to Brixton, if it did stop it would make it a lot easier to get around South London.

that must be the p4. at least after ken the service was improved, but before that ive waited a full hour for that bus on a sunday.

im still bitter about it!

 

[Crispy]

I've been looking at trains per hour running through the various bits of track around Brixton, and it does look like switching the Overground trains through the old platforms is a no-go There's too many trains coming through from Herne and Denmark Hills on that line, it'd get all snarled up.

My railway network diagram now stretches from Clapham Junction to New Cross To Croydon

 

[hipipol]

I assume Wandsworth Road and Clapham High Street used to be four platform stations as I saw a very old picture of Wandsworth Road station advertising trains Victoria, St. Pauls & Ludgate Hill and trains "to the coast".

Ludgate Hill Station was on the bridge between Blackfriars(originally known as St Pauls) and High Holborn, the link still exists but is just used to movge empty stock around now. You can see the lines to the west of Loughborugh Junction

 

[Crispy]

You can't hotlink subbrit images