East Brixton station (formerly Lougborough Park): abandoned station off Coldharbour Lane

[newbie]

cheers citydreams, you & I have bickered before but it's nice to know that you don't distrust my motives whatever you think of my views

There are a lot of people in Brixton who would actually approve of better transport and higher propery prices. This is not just restricted to new residents but also includes the multi-racial community that has been living here for generations.

For you to preach what opportunities Brixton residents should and shouldn't have I find very patronising. I think we are worth more that.

At least you're honest enough to equate massive public investment in a new station with higher property prices. Usually it takes a few pages and more than 7 posts before that sort of agenda becomes apparent.

There are a lot of people in Brixton full stop. Of course there's a divergence of views. I'll take your word for it that you can talk for the "multi-racial community that has been living here for generations" and know their priorities for the area. No doubt they've all made a point of telling you that all they want is a few more grand on the price before they can sell up and move away. Or is it only those that buy based on expectation of profit, proximity to transport and primary school catchment area that think like that, d'you reckon?

 

[TeeJay]

Because it is a real pain at present to get quickly to Clapham or Clapham Junction by public transport. The line uses pre-existing track and I enclose the proposed route - you decide whether it seems odd that it does not stop in the Brixton area

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/rail/initiatives/ell-route-map.shtml

I would love to be able to go from Clapham Junction to Brixton. It would save me a *lot* of time and hassel.

 

[TeeJay]

I've no idea how much it would cost to put in a new platform but it would clearly be a massive job. A few weeks of disruption wouldn't even get close to how long it would take IMO.

I wonder how the victorians managed to build so much railway infrastruture - many of which are still running - and why technology and know-how seems to have gone backwards since then, judging by how "impossible" so many things seem.

Or maybe its just that roads are now the number one priority whereas railways are treated like second-class projects?

 

[timothysutton1]

Ghetto Brixton

Why are some people so frightened of change? It's this warped ghetto mentality that nothing should change. Meanwhile the world passes by (quite literally if we don't get the railway station) and we miss out. What a tragic legacy to leave behind.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I wonder how the victorians managed to build so much railway infrastruture - many of which are still running - and why technology and know-how seems to have gone backwards since then, judging by how "impossible" so many things seem.

Or maybe its just that roads are now the number one priority whereas railways are treated like second-class projects?

I don't disagree, and I'm sure it's possible given the investment.

My post was only in response to the suggestion that it was a ridiculously easy job, which it isn't.

 

[netbob]

Why are some people so frightened of change? It's this warped ghetto mentality that nothing should change.

People get frightened because they see change happening and feel priced out of it's outcomes (financially or socially).

 

[newbie]

It's this warped ghetto mentality that nothing should change.

what is?



In whose interests is it to concentrate transport interchanges in Brixton, and whose interests does it work against?

 

[Giles]

I wonder how the victorians managed to build so much railway infrastruture - many of which are still running - and why technology and know-how seems to have gone backwards since then, judging by how "impossible" so many things seem.

Or maybe its just that roads are now the number one priority whereas railways are treated like second-class projects?

It's not that things are "impossible", or that technology and know-how have been lost.

It must be remembered that a lot of suburban London was only really developed at the same time as, and largely because of, the newly built railways, so when the railways were being built, they were being built through largely open countryside.

And, the railways were not built with "taxpayers money" so there weren't endless arguments about which project should and should not received money.

Giles..

 

[Crispy]

I wonder how the victorians managed to build so much railway infrastruture - many of which are still running

Probably because they had the massive wealth of the empire to fund it all. Plus far lower labour costs.

 

[Veronicaball]

I've no idea,to be honest. I'm not an expert at all, I was just responding to the suggestion that what setting up the line was a very easy task, which it clearly isn't.

The authorities are correct in reporting that the proposed East London line does not share the line of Loughborough Junction or Brixton Station as its "on the high line" that crosses these two other lines.
HOWEVER the line rises from ground level after it runs along the north side of Ruskin Park before getting high enough to go above Thameslink just south of Loughborough Junction Station. This patch which is beside EMPTY land - parallel with Bengworth Road (which has no residential dwellings) would be an obvious cheap place to put in a station (there are signs that there used to be one called "Cambria Road"). There would then be a three to four minute walk to the existing Loughborough Junction station (and on many underground interconnections the walk between lines is as far).
This would be a cheap and possible solution - but don't expect the powers that be to look at the really feasible answers for then the aurgument about costs would be revealed for what it is - an excuse!

 

[timothysutton1]

what is?



In whose interests is it to concentrate transport interchanges in Brixton, and whose interests does it work against?

As the poll is indicating, better transport links would be of great interest to a lot of people. Maybe if you got out more you would think that too.

 

[citydreams]

This patch which is beside EMPTY land - parallel with Bengworth Road (which has no residential dwellings) would be an obvious cheap place to put in a station!

Agreed! It would be perfect for me personally

But there's already a stop at Denmark Hill just a few hundred metres further.

 

[newbie]

As the poll is indicating, better transport links would be of great interest to a lot of people. Maybe if you got out more you would think that too.

Instead of yet another piece of gratuitous rudeness, how about answering the question.

 

[Giles]

Probably because they had the massive wealth of the empire to fund it all. Plus far lower labour costs.

I don't know about "wealth of the empire" directly - the railways were all private companies, out to make a profit, when they were built.

Giles..

 

[Isambard]

What gets my goat is that this line has been on the cards for YEARS, moving into DECADES now. The high flyover at Brixton and the issues with providing an interchange there were in the railway press in the mid 80s.

In typical British short sightedness it seems they haven't found a solution or simply saved up the money over 20 years to make a capital investment. Typical! Short sightedness and minimum investment / profit orientated.

 

[timothysutton1]

what is?



In whose interests is it to concentrate transport interchanges in Brixton, and whose interests does it work against?

As I have said, it appears from the poll that residents DO want a Brixton Station. I don't think any of their interests could be considered unlawful so why not? Your theory seems to be suggesting they shouldn't be given the choice.

 

[newbie]

so you're not prepared to even try and answer the question.

You're new here, so maybe you're under the misapprehension that we expect contentless insults and sweeping generalisations rather than informed debate. Since you're clearly incapable of the latter, and are equally clearly speaking from property price based self-interest is there any reason to further engage with you?

 

[timothysutton1]

Start another thread

what is?



In whose interests is it to concentrate transport interchanges in Brixton, and whose interests does it work against?

In whose interest might it be? The travelling public that's who. Maybe a thread for discussing property prices may be a better place for this discussion?

 

[newbie]

that'll be a no then

 

[articletwo]

that'll be a no then

Why stop at stopping the ELL stopping in Brixton? That is years away. There is much work to be down now fighting to close down all the existing transport links - tube, train, bus - that dare to venture to Brixton. All of them bringing in property-price obsessed carpet baggers. And, even worse, possibly allowing local people to travel outside Brixton to places of employment! Quelle horreur!

Clearly, once Brixton is cut-off from the rest of London, the next stage is a big wide moat. With a drawbridge. And newbie posted there checking the credentials of all those who attempt to enter, ensuring the purity of Brixton is not sullied by nasty outsiders. Bliss!

 

[colacubes]

Why stop at stopping the ELL stopping in Brixton? That is years away. There is much work to be down now fighting to close down all the existing transport links - tube, train, bus - that dare to venture to Brixton. All of them bringing in property-price obsessed carpet baggers. And, even worse, possibly allowing local people to travel outside Brixton to places of employment! Quelle horreur!

Clearly, once Brixton is cut-off from the rest of London, the next stage is a big wide moat. With a drawbridge. And newbie posted there checking the credentials of all those who attempt to enter, ensuring the purity of Brixton is not sullied by nasty outsiders. Bliss!

Shut up you twat!

 

[timothysutton1]

Latest news

I have asked my local councillor, Jackie Meldrum, who has asked Val Shawcross (London Assembly member for Lambeth and Southwark). This is her reply:

' I did a lot of petitioning (1,000 sigs +) and campaigning on this and brought residents including Tim Gaymer from Loughborough in to see Ken. The phase one is going ahead at the moment, e.g the line to Crystal Palace and West Croydon, but the phase 2 arm isn't yet agreed.

The route could yet be changed to Wimbledon via Streatham and Tulse Hill but if phase 2 goes ahead via Denmark Hill there aren't currently platforms at Brixton to take it so there would be a 2 kilometre gap between stations (Denmark Hill to Clapham).

Ken agrees with me it would be mad to take it past Brixton without stopping so he would look for regeneration funding to put a new high level platform on at Brixton.

Its pretty clear that there wouldn't be a cost benefit case to install any completely new stations. However, as the phase 2 development is not even under discussion at this stage campaigning has quietened off. We won't pick up this issue, routing or extra platforms, until the debate goes live on the ELLX phase 2 again...'

If I hear any more I will let you guys know.

 

[timothysutton1]

Why stop at stopping the ELL stopping in Brixton? That is years away. There is much work to be down now fighting to close down all the existing transport links - tube, train, bus - that dare to venture to Brixton. All of them bringing in property-price obsessed carpet baggers. And, even worse, possibly allowing local people to travel outside Brixton to places of employment! Quelle horreur!

Clearly, once Brixton is cut-off from the rest of London, the next stage is a big wide moat. With a drawbridge. And newbie posted there checking the credentials of all those who attempt to enter, ensuring the purity of Brixton is not sullied by nasty outsiders. Bliss!

Hail! King Newbie.

 

[newbie]

Why stop at stopping the ELL stopping in Brixton? That is years away. There is much work to be down now fighting to close down all the existing transport links - tube, train, bus - that dare to venture to Brixton. All of them bringing in property-price obsessed carpet baggers. And, even worse, possibly allowing local people to travel outside Brixton to places of employment! Quelle horreur!

Clearly, once Brixton is cut-off from the rest of London, the next stage is a big wide moat. With a drawbridge. And newbie posted there checking the credentials of all those who attempt to enter, ensuring the purity of Brixton is not sullied by nasty outsiders. Bliss!

so can you tell me which groups a new station will favour and which it will harm? Or is low quality abuse all you have to offer as well?

 

[prunus]

Agreed! It would be perfect for me personally

But there's already a stop at Denmark Hill just a few hundred metres further.

It's actually more like 600m, and that only as the crow flies (or indeed the railway runs) - walking it's a lot further, especially after dusk when Ruskin Park is closed - nearly a mile round Coldharbour lane/Denmark Hill.

I think this is an excellent idea. How can we get it in the minds of the powers that be?

 

[articletwo]

so can you tell me which groups a new station will favour and which it will harm? Or is low quality abuse all you have to offer as well?

Oh come on, I rather hoped it was at least medium quality abuse.

I imagine an ELL station will favour all those people who want to come and go, to work, to play, to interact with the rest of the world. In fact, all the people who normally benefit from a new bit of transport infrastructure. I struggle to see who it would harm.

 

[Dan U]

increasing the desirability of Brixton is two edged: whilst improving the lives of the existing, and longterm, residents it also increases the pressures which are pricing them out of the area. Meanwhile failing to regenerate reinforces deprivation.

i understand your arguement about the gentrification of brixton but who uses public transport as well as commuters - many of whom are brixton residents and not just using it as a hub?

public transport is used by a significant proportion of people on lower incomes, particularly in the more suburban areas.

thats why i'm in favour of it.

 

[netbob]

The ELL is set to become the Outer Circle Line. If it stopped at evey station nonone would get anywhere! !

 

[newbie]

I struggle to see who it would harm.

ok, let's split this into groups.

Winners
Brixton residents who want to travel would gain from a station. That may seem a bit obvious, but there we are.
add to that some other travellers
non-residents who want to visit Brixton
non-residents who use Brixton as a hub

then there's the two groups ts1 champions. Those who currently own property in Brixton could expect to gain from the increased desirability of the area. Business would expect to capitalise on both increased commuter activity and the richer people buying into the area.

Then there's the same sharks who've got their eyes on Revitalise. Property developers, construction companies and the rest who'll want to amalgamate a station project with redeveloping the area around the Rec and Popes Road carpark. The bigger the scheme the greater the profit potential.

Non-winners
Brixton residents who seldom or never travel, or who have little desire to go to Clapham, Peckham or beyond will only gain indirectly, if at all.

Like memespring says, those who use the ELL from Peckham to Clapham will have increased journey times.

those ts1 conveniently ignores: the majority of locals who are not property owners, for whom rising local property prices reduces opportunities to rent or buy in the area. The quirky local businesses priced out as the multiples seek to capitalise as Brixton moves upmarket.

And then there's the opportunity costs. Where is the money this station will cost not being spent? LJ perhaps? Is Brixton the place most in need of investment/ is this investment what Brixton needs most?

Finally there might even be a few locals who don't want ever more people getting off buses, seething on the pavements, hopping on a train and leaving. And some who don't want a major construction site planted in the middle of the market, or who'd prefer a local shopping centre to an enhanced transport hub.



Ok that's a start. It's not hard to identify other groups. Maybe some of this is too broad, and needs to be defined more clearly. Some groups are numerically bigger than others, some economially more important, some have political clout, some are easily ignored. Obviously there is overlap, individuals don't fit into convenient boxes.

Equally obviously in the minimum 5-10 years it'll take before there's any sign of this station many/most of the people reading this thread will have moved away from the area, so immediate, personal self-interest shouldn't be the sole consideration.


This station may be a good strategic investment of public funds. It may not. The case hasn't yet even been argued, let alone proven.




oh, and no, it was crap abuse

 

[citydreams]

This station may be a good strategic investment of public funds. It may not. The case hasn't yet even been argued, let alone proven.

Are you going to wait for a glossy magazine from the council before you vote on this thread?