silentNate
1.618 xakep
I live in East London and it would be well handy if they did stop there...
East Brixton station (formerly Lougborough Park): abandoned station off Coldharbour Lane
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(dons anorak)
any new public transport which crosses south london (as opposed to going from north to south) is a good thing in my book.
akaik there is only the
west croydon - balham loop (via w norwood)
thameslink loop (round sutton, wimbledon, slackbridge etc)
which connects up with the tram @ mitcham jct (wimbledon - beckenham)
surely it should connect up at all available stations, its not like the infrastructure isnt already there.
its very difficult to traverse london, a train from brixton to clapham junction would also link up with the silverlink (iirc) loops round west london as well as the east benefits mentioned before.
i'll keep my eyes open for a petition
any new public transport which crosses south london (as opposed to going from north to south) is a good thing in my book.
akaik there is only the
west croydon - balham loop (via w norwood)
thameslink loop (round sutton, wimbledon, slackbridge etc)
which connects up with the tram @ mitcham jct (wimbledon - beckenham)
surely it should connect up at all available stations, its not like the infrastructure isnt already there.
its very difficult to traverse london, a train from brixton to clapham junction would also link up with the silverlink (iirc) loops round west london as well as the east benefits mentioned before.
i'll keep my eyes open for a petition
upthejunction
Well-Known Member
what ELLP have told me
Their reply to me is:
"Further to our response to you in August last year regarding Brixton station, the reason this does not appear on the Phase 2 route is because the preferred site would have entailed building on an angled bend which is also on an incline (the station would be situated on a high viaduct). Accessibility to ground level would need to be included, and as previously informed, the total costs involved in building here would be prohibitively expensive. Loughborough Junction would entail building on an even higher viaduct, as it is at this point that it passes over the Thameslink Line viaduct.
Whilst stations at these points are not currently being considered, this does not preclude the opportunity to build them in the future if an appropriate source of funding could be found."
If anyone can tell me what they are talking about in Brixton (I think I know what they are talking about at LJ) I would be grateful as looking on the map it looks like the line from Denmark Hill to Clapham High St goes through the existing Brixton BR station. (see http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.s...srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&ax=531233&ay=175352)
Their reply to me is:
"Further to our response to you in August last year regarding Brixton station, the reason this does not appear on the Phase 2 route is because the preferred site would have entailed building on an angled bend which is also on an incline (the station would be situated on a high viaduct). Accessibility to ground level would need to be included, and as previously informed, the total costs involved in building here would be prohibitively expensive. Loughborough Junction would entail building on an even higher viaduct, as it is at this point that it passes over the Thameslink Line viaduct.
Whilst stations at these points are not currently being considered, this does not preclude the opportunity to build them in the future if an appropriate source of funding could be found."
If anyone can tell me what they are talking about in Brixton (I think I know what they are talking about at LJ) I would be grateful as looking on the map it looks like the line from Denmark Hill to Clapham High St goes through the existing Brixton BR station. (see http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.s...srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&ax=531233&ay=175352)
corporate whore
oh, thought you were dead
Doesn't go through, but over, the existing Brixton BR station. Would involve building new platforms 20 feet above the existing ones which, as someone already said, would be a logistical nightmare.
Imagine the chaos if huge cranes are sat in Atlantic Rd for weeks on end.
Loughbrough Junction's the pisser, though. Never has a station been so ill-named. So many services go close to the station, but only one goes through..
Imagine the chaos if huge cranes are sat in Atlantic Rd for weeks on end.
Loughbrough Junction's the pisser, though. Never has a station been so ill-named. So many services go close to the station, but only one goes through..
upthejunction
Well-Known Member
corporate whore said:
One Word. Why? Is the other track too smal or something. Or is it too simple to use the existing track and station? There is definitely a line that goes from Denmark Hill to Brixton and then to Clapham High St. Has anyone got the feasibility study and how does C.Whore know the plan?
corporate whore
oh, thought you were dead
Don't get me wrong, I'm not privy to TfL plans! I have, though, spent many a salubrious time waiting for trains at Brixton station, and know that the line from Denmark Hill to Clapham High Street passes above the line on which Brixton station is situated.
Thus, a station on that line would entail a new, second-level station being built above the existing station.
So, although I disagree with TfL's decision to bypass both Brixton and LJ on the ELL extension, I can see the point made in their reply to upthejunction.
Thus, a station on that line would entail a new, second-level station being built above the existing station.
So, although I disagree with TfL's decision to bypass both Brixton and LJ on the ELL extension, I can see the point made in their reply to upthejunction.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
east london line trains should not stop at brixton or loughborough junction because neither brixton nor loughborough junction are in east london.
simple, really.
they should give something going to brixton or loughborough junction a different name.
simple, really.
they should give something going to brixton or loughborough junction a different name.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
upthejunction said:
It runs across the other track. It's a completely different line, there's no way you could use the track that the current platforms serve.
I've no idea how much it would cost to put in a new platform but it would clearly be a massive job. A few weeks of disruption wouldn't even get close to how long it would take IMO.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
I've no idea,to be honest. I'm not an expert at all, I was just responding to the suggestion that what setting up the line was a very easy task, which it clearly isn't.
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
Monkeygrinder's Organ said:
Am I right in thinking that all of the ELL plans have assumed that trains for the ELL would run all the way along the "High Level" (LB&SCR) line - the route currently taken by South London Line trains that stop at Wandsworth Road, Clapham High Street, and now run fast through central Brixton to Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye. Services on this line once stopped at the lost East Brixton station,
What isn't clear is whether anyone has ever looked at the feasibility of running them along the "Low Level" (SE&CR) line?
The 1894 map of Brixton shows that the low level station used to have four platforms:
one of which used to be built out into Brixton Station Road:
These two northern platforms were served by trains running east-west, although (not having a Bradshaw's Railway Comapanion of the era to hand) I'm not sure of their exact pattern of services.
I suspect that what we have is a fossilised service pattern reflecting the division of Victoria station between the two rival Victorian railway companies - still obvious at Victoria until about 1990.
Once the timetabling "slots" for Eurostar trains are no longer required when the terminus move from Waterloo to Kings Cross (from 2008?), I would have thought that more flexible timetabling allowing trains to move between the two sets of tracks between Brixton and Clapham High Street has to be a possibility.
[Edited add: removes anorak before going to pub]
newbie
undisambiguated
<peers at anorak, realises it won't ever fit 
>
Brixton is my local centre it's where I shop, socialise sometimes and so on. It's also my local tube and train station.
It's also a terminus on a major tube line and a railway station, meaning it's a massive bus hub just where the trunk road to Brighton narrows. It's expected to become a tram terminus. It's one of the most important transport interchanges in London, used by countless people who don't live locally and wouldn't come anywhere near if they had some way of avoiding it.
How will campaigning for yet another transport interchange concentrated in the same small space improve the lives of local people, most of whom don't commute to Canary Wharf?
>Brixton is my local centre it's where I shop, socialise sometimes and so on. It's also my local tube and train station.
It's also a terminus on a major tube line and a railway station, meaning it's a massive bus hub just where the trunk road to Brighton narrows. It's expected to become a tram terminus. It's one of the most important transport interchanges in London, used by countless people who don't live locally and wouldn't come anywhere near if they had some way of avoiding it.
How will campaigning for yet another transport interchange concentrated in the same small space improve the lives of local people, most of whom don't commute to Canary Wharf?
citydreams
on the road again
newbie said:
Are you 100% confident that the tram is coming to Brixton? I've not seen how TfL Trams is progressing with the plans. But other cities are moving away from Trams due to the cost benefits of automated buses.
When the ELL is up and running Brixton will no longer be the preferred option for loads of commuters.
Opening up Brixton to the Docklands gives us access to jobs. Allowing us transfer to Peckham would free up some of the road space - ever seen an empty 345 bus?
You say that Brixton is a major hub, but it's not a patch on Clapham which suddenly finds itself with another two tube stations.
newbie
undisambiguated
I don't think the tram has been finalised yet. It sems to me there's an implicit assumption that it's in the interests of brixton that both the tram and ELL line land here. I'm not saying it's not, but I do think it's an assumption that needs to be investigated and explicitly proved.
THE WARRIOR
Well-Known Member
links to questions raised by Val Shawcross
upthejunction said:
citydreams
on the road again
If money was only available for one station then my preference would be for a stop at Loughborough Junction to add to the development of the area, served by a shuttle bus that goes around Brixton.
newbie said:
To be honest though I'd love a way of getting to work in Clapham Junction more quickly than at present - it used to take me less time to reach Camden in the mornings.
It's an unpleasant choice between the 35 and 37, thus meaning that you'll get stuck behind countless 4x4s as your crawl past the common at school run time. Failing that I can catch a tube to Vauxhall at extra cost and come back via train to Clapham Junction. Sucky, sucky, sucky....
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
Yossarian said:
Does the Lambeth cell consist of the same group of drinkers at the Priory Arms who claim to be the local chapter of the Militant Grammarians of Massachusetts.
timothysutton1
Brixton resident.
Any action planned?
Looking at the proposed ELL map all the stations are pretty evenly spaced until you get to our bit of South London. It all looks very suspicious to me.
The question of expense seems a bit of a red herring to me. If they coped with all the problems of the Docklands Railway I'm sure they could build us a station in Brixton.
I would definitely agree with a Brixton station. Increasing transport links will increase opportunities for both residents and local businesses.
Is any action planned? Council meetings to lobby, etc. etc?
Looking at the proposed ELL map all the stations are pretty evenly spaced until you get to our bit of South London. It all looks very suspicious to me.
The question of expense seems a bit of a red herring to me. If they coped with all the problems of the Docklands Railway I'm sure they could build us a station in Brixton.
I would definitely agree with a Brixton station. Increasing transport links will increase opportunities for both residents and local businesses.
Is any action planned? Council meetings to lobby, etc. etc?
newbie
undisambiguated
tarannau said:
Yeah, I understand that, and I sympathise with it. But, as we've discussed before, increasing the desirability of Brixton is two edged: whilst improving the lives of the existing, and longterm, residents it also increases the pressures which are pricing them out of the area. Meanwhile failing to regenerate reinforces deprivation. There are no easy answers to any of this, which is why it's necessary to critically examine the assumption that better transport links is automatically a good thing for the people you and I both care about, as well as being good for those I, at any rate, am rather more ambivalent about.
btw, depends where you live, obviously, but bus to Steatham Hill station and then a train to CJ works for me when I need it.
timothysutton1
Brixton resident.
How patronising
There are a lot of people in Brixton who would actually approve of better transport and higher propery prices. This is not just restricted to new residents but also includes the multi-racial community that has been living here for generations.
For you to preach what opportunities Brixton residents should and shouldn't have I find very patronising. I think we are worth more that.
newbie said:
There are a lot of people in Brixton who would actually approve of better transport and higher propery prices. This is not just restricted to new residents but also includes the multi-racial community that has been living here for generations.
For you to preach what opportunities Brixton residents should and shouldn't have I find very patronising. I think we are worth more that.
citydreams
on the road again
Hey timothysutton,
I'm sure Newbie will answer on his own accord, but he doesn't mean to be patronising. I've found his point of view to be that one must explicitly prove how any change is beneficial. He wants change as much as anyone, just not for the sake of change.
hope that helps
I'm sure Newbie will answer on his own accord, but he doesn't mean to be patronising. I've found his point of view to be that one must explicitly prove how any change is beneficial. He wants change as much as anyone, just not for the sake of change.
hope that helps
billythefish
toad licker
Surely it's a no brainer that the ELL should link to tube stations where possible? There is a huge gap around Brixton, Loughborough which seems inexpicable to me. At the very least, it should link with the Victoria line at Brixton.
