East Brixton station (formerly Lougborough Park): abandoned station off Coldharbour Lane

[Puddy_Tat]

Kings Cross Thameslink was a serviceable interlude before the grand opening of St Pancras International almost 20 years later. Surely it makes sense to push for reopening East Brixton - now that Medussa has closed. The cost of tram-like interim platforms up there would only be a few thousands, surely?

I expect someone better qualified than me will come along to say I'm talking balls, but I wonder if, as a completely new station, any new structure would have to meet present day standards in terms of accessibility and so forth. Hence 'tram like' platforms might not be an option.

 

[Crispy]

Yeah, you'd need lifts. Not sure how big space for the island platform is up there.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Surely it makes sense to push for reopening East Brixton - now that Medussa has closed.

Medussa is in use as a photography studio at the moment

 

[CH1]

Yeah, you'd need lifts. Not sure how big space for the island platform is up there.

Loughborough Junction doesn't have lifts - nor does Brixton SR. So now we can't bring back Brixton East because of the DDA? Franz Kafka meets the Daily Mail.
Actually lifts could be provided less expensively these days - I've seen some lightweight lifts in Spanish stations with upgraded access. Not suitable for electrically powered scooters of course.
BTW I didn't mean island type tram platforms - sorry. I meant platforms could be strapped on the sides with the benefit of modern technology using aluminium or some other lightweight but sturdy materials.
Something lighter than cast iron, wood and brick as heretofore

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Yeah, you'd need lifts. Not sure how big space for the island platform is up there.

I don't think the viaduct is wide enough to put an island platform in

Loughborough Junction doesn't have lifts - nor does Brixton SR. So now we can't bring back Brixton East because of the DDA?

I may be completely wrong on this point - but I have a feeling that the situation is different for an existing station that's been in use for some time and for a brand new station.

And not necessarily Equalities Act (which has replaced DDA) - all sorts of building regulations apply to new buildings but not retrospectively.

I am fairly sure that a lot of existing London Underground stations would not meet the standards that any new underground* station would have to be built to, for example - there were new standards which I think have something to do with emergency access that came in in the aftermath of the Kings Cross fire.

* - by this, I mean a station that is underground, not necessarily an Underground station.

 

[Crispy]

That's right, it's the building regulations, and existing buildings get a pass.
One of the platforms would have to be an island (albeit with nothing stopping on the North face), because it's only the southern pair of tracks we're interested in

 

[laptop]

I'm pretty sure - from looking at examples rather than the regs - that if you build a new station the platforms have to be dead straight.

No idea whether you can "grandfather" the site of a station that's been closed and demolished for decades...

 

[Crispy]

The rule isn't completely watertight, AFAIK. The thameslink platform extensions at Farringdon, for example, are curved and sloped, and had to get special permission.

However, from a quick look on gmaps, the straight portion of the old East Brixton platforms are long enough to take a 4/5 car Overground train. But new stations on the OG are built with 8 cars in mind (if not the actual platforms). So, it could work as a stopgap station until the redevelopment cash comes in for Brixton proper, but I still have my doubts that it would be worth the money.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Loughborough Junction doesn't have lifts - nor does Brixton SR. So now we can't bring back Brixton East because of the DDA? Franz Kafka meets the Daily Mail.
Actually lifts could be provided less expensively these days - I've seen some lightweight lifts in Spanish stations with upgraded access. Not suitable for electrically powered scooters of course.
BTW I didn't mean island type tram platforms - sorry. I meant platforms could be strapped on the sides with the benefit of modern technology using aluminium or some other lightweight but sturdy materials.
Something lighter than cast iron, wood and brick as heretofore

Lifts needn't be expensive. Berlin managed to make most of their stations (U-bahn and S-bahn) accessible without breaking the bank, so whining about the DDA is bollocks. What Berlin did was use lifts with hydraulic rams to raise/lower the cabin, rather than cables. Easier to fit and maintain (no need to constantly re-tension cables), and the business part is on the lower level, so you're not having to find extra headroom on the platform for winding gear.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Lifts needn't be expensive. Berlin managed to make most of their stations (U-bahn and S-bahn) accessible without breaking the bank, so whining about the DDA is bollocks. What Berlin did was use lifts with hydraulic rams to raise/lower the cabin, rather than cables. Easier to fit and maintain (no need to constantly re-tension cables), and the business part is on the lower level, so you're not having to find extra headroom on the platform for winding gear.

Indeed.

(West) Berlin had low floor, wheelchair accessible buses circa 1990. (I can't remember if it was all the fleet at that time but certainly a good proportion.)

I don't really understand why here, more effort seems to be put into trying to come up with reasons why accessibility can't be done than into trying to come up with practical ways of delivering it...

 

[CH1]

Lifts needn't be expensive. Berlin managed to make most of their stations (U-bahn and S-bahn) accessible without breaking the bank, so whining about the DDA is bollocks. What Berlin did was use lifts with hydraulic rams to raise/lower the cabin, rather than cables. Easier to fit and maintain (no need to constantly re-tension cables), and the business part is on the lower level, so you're not having to find extra headroom on the platform for winding gear.

As in Spain. Looks as though what we need is a feasibility study.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Indeed.

(West) Berlin had low floor, wheelchair accessible buses circa 1990. (I can't remember if it was all the fleet at that time but certainly a good proportion.)

I don't really understand why here, more effort seems to be put into trying to come up with reasons why accessibility can't be done than into trying to come up with practical ways of delivering it...

Because the money will never be found until they're (the Mayor, TfL) are compelled to legislatively, because accessibility isn't sexy. You only need look at how Boris rowed back from the project to make South Ken accessible (citing a supposed £50 million cost ) to know they'd rather spend money on projects that get good press, rather than on worthy causes that wouldn't just make life easier for disabled people, but mums and/or dads with shopping and kids, too.

 

[Crispy]

The deep-level tube is a special case, though. The U-bahn could have lifts added easily, as it's all cut and cover, like the met/district/h&c/circle (and it's a crime that all of those stations haven't been done). But driving lift shafts down to existing deep tube stations is an expensive business. It's why South Ken would have cost £50m, whereas Southfields, for example, had a complete refurbishment and new lifts for only $15m

 

[laptop]

The deep-level tube is a special case, though. The U-bahn could have lifts added easily, as it's all cut and cover, like the met/district/h&c/circle (and it's a crime that all of those stations haven't been done). But driving lift shafts down to existing deep tube stations is an expensive business. It's why South Ken would have cost £50m, whereas Southfields, for example, had a complete refurbishment and new lifts for only $15m

But all the pre-1920 Tube stations already have lift shafts?

True, some of them come to the surface far from the current station entrances, many of which were built when the escalators were put in...

 

[Crispy]

Having now looked into South Ken, it is indeed a disgrace that the existing lift shafts have not been re-used. They go directly from alongside the surface platforms and were in use as recently as 1974. It shouldn't cost £50m.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

But all the pre-1920 Tube stations already have lift shafts?

True, some of them come to the surface far from the current station entrances, many of which were built when the escalators were put in...

Not quite sure about 'all' but certainly quite a few. Although in a number of cases the lifts did not run from street level and / or to platform level.

e.g. at Angel (before it was rebuilt) there was a short flight of stairs from platform level to the lower landing of the lifts

 

[Crispy]

They're going to have to do the same thing to the narrow Clapham stations one day soon. I'm amazed that people don't die there on a regular basis.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not quite sure about 'all' but certainly quite a few. Although in a number of cases the lifts did not run from street level and / or to platform level.

e.g. at Angel (before it was rebuilt) there was a short flight of stairs from platform level to the lower landing of the lifts

and at the angel you could go up in the lift if you were paying or up the stairs if you weren't.

 

[leanderman]

They're going to have to do the same thing to the narrow Clapham stations one day soon. I'm amazed that people don't die there on a regular basis.

Exactly. It is a real shock getting on or off at Clapham Common.

Wapping, in East London Line days, was terrifying too

 

[Puddy_Tat]

and at the angel you could go up in the lift if you were paying or up the stairs if you weren't.

think the same thing applied at a few tube (and i mean tube not just underground) stations at the time - ticket checks were done by the lift operator. I'm sure I went somewhere on the tube where the lift attendant also sold tickets (both prior to UTS / ticket gates)

 

[Pickman's model]

think the same thing applied at a few tube (and i mean tube not just underground) stations at the time - ticket checks were done by the lift operator. I'm sure I went somewhere on the tube where the lift attendant also sold tickets (both prior to UTS / ticket gates)

and there was rarely an attendant at mill hill east so you could swipe any discarded tickets, which frequently included one day travelcards that could be flogged on for a quid.

 

[CH1]

Used Denmark Hill station the other day, only to find the old entrance blocked off and a new fully accessible entrance open round the corner in Champion Park. It seems there is actually funding available for such upgrades. I guess in the case of East Brixton the problem is making a case for the need for the station.
Good to see mooted plans for improvements coming to fruition though (the new facilities have been in use since 5th August). http://www.rail-news.com/2011/01/05/new-images-show-denmark-hill-will-be-more-accessible-for-all/

 

[Crispy]

The Denmark Hill improvements are peanuts compared to the major engineering required for a Brixton station.

 

[CH1]

The Denmark Hill improvements are peanuts compared to the major engineering required for a Brixton station.

You mean the problem of re-erecting platforms I assume. Only two lifts are needed at East Brixton compared to Denmark Hill's three.
Denmark Hill has a whole new gantry arrangement to support the walkways as can be seen in the design photo in the article above. I think you are exaggerating the comparison.

 

[Crispy]

Oh, sorry didn't realise you said East Brixton Sure, not so much of a big project. But it'll never happen while the possibility, however slim, of a "proper" station remains. If E.Brixton was open, why would anyone bother funding a new station a few hundred meters up the line? It's all or nothing, IMO.

"Just good enough" stopgap solutions are a perennial symptom of the short-term planning of infrastructure projects in this country.

 

[editor]

Well, I'd like it if East Brixton reopened, thanks very much. It would provide a useful and necessary rail link.

Plus all those town planning types could then get excited about it "opening up Coldharbour Lane" with "increased footfall" and all that bollocks too.

 

[Peanut Monkey]

Well, I'd like it if East Brixton reopened, thanks very much. It would provide a useful and necessary rail link.

Plus all those town planning types could then get excited about it "opening up Coldharbour Lane" with "increased footfall" and all that bollocks too.

Reopening up Brixton East wouldn't be great fun for all those who's flats back onto the line near where the station was (including mine).

 

[editor]

Reopening up Brixton East wouldn't be great fun for all those who's flats back onto the line near where the station was (including mine).

Are you sure? The station was high up and I can't think of any flats that have been built close to it.

 

[Peanut Monkey]

Are you sure? The station was high up and I can't think of any flats that have been built close to it.

It wouldn't be the station that'd be the problem more the braking of the trains as they approached it. We're in the houses that back onto the line between Barrington Road and Loughborough Junction.

 

[fogbat]

They're going to have to do the same thing to the narrow Clapham stations one day soon. I'm amazed that people don't die there on a regular basis.

Someone fell off the platform at Clapham North just a few weeks back. Thankfully he got pulled back onto the platform in seconds.