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DWP staff to be given powers of arrest for benefit fraud

Dystopiary said:
I'm not sure - I'd be interested (no, tbh I'd dread) to see that, including what question exactly was asked, but I don't believe the majority of people are that nasty.

There's been a massive push to demonise those in receipt of benefits and yeah I think a lot of people believe there's this huge chunk of society pretending to be ill or lazy or whatever, not really understanding how difficult that money is to claim, or what it's like living with the worry of losing it, trying to budget, the stigma etc. So I think how the question's worded would make a big difference to people's answers.
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Sasaferrato said:
Surely the fact that so many are overturned should be leading to disciplinary action against the staff who made the initial, wrong, decision.
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the faceless unanmed DWP decision maker who is responsible for the decision rarely faces consequences , instead the witless target the HCPs based on bullshit and fantasies about bonuses and the fact they are employed by a private company rather than the NHS, and then , ina somewhat ironic move ,m claim that GPs should be allowed to do the report even though GPS ( and doctors in General) have no training in conducting these kinds of assessments vs Nurses / Physios/ OTs
 
I have written to my MP about this and asked if he can debate it in Parliament. Feel free to use my similar template and link to the petition. (I probably said too much but I needed to express all my concerns in one email).


Dear (MP name),

I am writing to you regarding a new policy the DWP are considering bringing in, which would allow them to see what benefit claimants are spending their money on. Their justification is to clamp down on overpayments and fraud. However, in reality and according to the DWP's own statistics, fraud is involved in less than 1 percent of benefit claims. The DWP already have existing powers to request an individual's bank statements if they have reasonable grounds to suspect fraud, and these proposed new measures seem unnecessary and excessive.

I believe that what a person spends money on is a private matter, and nobody should have to justify themselves to anyone. For one thing, I am concerned that, should this become law, this would disproportionately affect disabled people, which could make it unlawful discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. People claiming PIP and other disability-related benefits buy the things they need to make life more tolerable and help them to overcome barriers and difficulties, like mobility aids and care. These things might be classed as luxury purchases by some, but they are a necessity for others.

Also, even for those of us who are not disabled, it is still an outrageous invasion of privacy. Even speaking from my personal experience as a fit, healthy person, I have experienced periods of unemployment due to the unstable economy and have needed to claim Universal Credit while in between jobs, as well as in the first few weeks of starting work while waiting for my first month's pay. I do not appreciate the implication that being poor makes me a thief who can't be trusted not to lie about my savings. Claiming benefits is such a patronising, demeaning process that I don't believe anybody would willingly put themselves through that experience if they didn't need to, and particularly not if they were lucky enough to have £16k in savings. I understand that there are people who commit benefit fraud; however, as per the DWP's own figures, they are in a tiny minority and in any case would not be likely to hide their ill-gotten gains in a bank account which is linked to their claim anyway.

The UK is a country which prides itself on treating all citizens equally and respecting human rights, and a policy like this would go against that principle. We are all entitled to a private life, and also to be considered innocent until proven guilty. Being unemployed, disabled, poor, or a mix of all three, should not affect this. However, if this is allowed to become law, that is what will happen.

As my MP, is it possible for you to raise this issue or ask for it to be discussed in Parliament? There is also a petition below which I have signed along with almost 5000 other people so far, addressed to Mel Stride, the DWP's Secretary of State, which maybe you could present when it gets to 10,000. Jeremy Hunt is due to announce this officially next week in his autumn budget statement, but I am not sure this can be implemented without a major overhaul to GDPR regulations, so hopefully that will give us time to stop this appalling new law in its tracks.

I have included my contact details above, so if you can write to me and let me know what you intend to do, that would be much appreciated.

Kind Regards
LeytonCatLady
 
AnnO'Neemus said:
I read an article that suggested DWP staff were also going to be able to check benefit claimants' travel history via their passports.

The thing is, going on holiday in the UK is often way more expensive than going on a cheap package holiday to Costa del Wherever. Ages ago, I was looking at train fares to Cornwall (to visit a friend/babysit so they could go to a gig), and the ticket price was extortionately expensive. In fact, I look up flights and it would have been cheaper to fly to Casablanca or Copenhagen than catch the train to Cornwall.

So people will be prevented from going on a cheap package holiday for spite, but they won't be able to afford to go on holiday in the UK.
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Agreed.
 
LeytonCatLady said:
I have written to my MP about this and asked if he can debate it in Parliament. Feel free to use my similar template and link to the petition. (I probably said too much but I needed to express all my concerns in one email).


Dear (MP name),

I am writing to you regarding a new policy the DWP are considering bringing in, which would allow them to see what benefit claimants are spending their money on. Their justification is to clamp down on overpayments and fraud. However, in reality and according to the DWP's own statistics, fraud is involved in less than 1 percent of benefit claims. The DWP already have existing powers to request an individual's bank statements if they have reasonable grounds to suspect fraud, and these proposed new measures seem unnecessary and excessive.

I believe that what a person spends money on is a private matter, and nobody should have to justify themselves to anyone. For one thing, I am concerned that, should this become law, this would disproportionately affect disabled people, which could make it unlawful discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. People claiming PIP and other disability-related benefits buy the things they need to make life more tolerable and help them to overcome barriers and difficulties, like mobility aids and care. These things might be classed as luxury purchases by some, but they are a necessity for others.

Also, even for those of us who are not disabled, it is still an outrageous invasion of privacy. Even speaking from my personal experience as a fit, healthy person, I have experienced periods of unemployment due to the unstable economy and have needed to claim Universal Credit while in between jobs, as well as in the first few weeks of starting work while waiting for my first month's pay. I do not appreciate the implication that being poor makes me a thief who can't be trusted not to lie about my savings. Claiming benefits is such a patronising, demeaning process that I don't believe anybody would willingly put themselves through that experience if they didn't need to, and particularly not if they were lucky enough to have £16k in savings. I understand that there are people who commit benefit fraud; however, as per the DWP's own figures, they are in a tiny minority and in any case would not be likely to hide their ill-gotten gains in a bank account which is linked to their claim anyway.

The UK is a country which prides itself on treating all citizens equally and respecting human rights, and a policy like this would go against that principle. We are all entitled to a private life, and also to be considered innocent until proven guilty. Being unemployed, disabled, poor, or a mix of all three, should not affect this. However, if this is allowed to become law, that is what will happen.

As my MP, is it possible for you to raise this issue or ask for it to be discussed in Parliament? There is also a petition below which I have signed along with almost 5000 other people so far, addressed to Mel Stride, the DWP's Secretary of State, which maybe you could present when it gets to 10,000. Jeremy Hunt is due to announce this officially next week in his autumn budget statement, but I am not sure this can be implemented without a major overhaul to GDPR regulations, so hopefully that will give us time to stop this appalling new law in its tracks.

I have included my contact details above, so if you can write to me and let me know what you intend to do, that would be much appreciated.

Kind Regards
LeytonCatLady
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He replied but didn't actually address my points:


Thank you for contacting me to share your concerns about the Government’s proposals to abolish the Work Capability Assessment and extend the use of Personal Independence Payment assessments in place of the WCA.

I note the Government has also recently held an open consultation on its plans to overhaul the WCA as a prelude to its abolition. While Ministers have yet to reveal their final plans, I have concerns that the approach they are taking will prove counterproductive.

Disabled people are already at greater risk of living in poverty than non-disabled people, and Government policy needs to recognise the additional costs associated with disability and ill health, and the barriers disabled people face getting into and staying in work. Disabled people should have the security of knowing that the state will step in and support them when they need it.

Moreover, I do not believe that this Government has the right approach when it comes to supporting sick and disabled people who can work. Any plan to help disabled people find work must also include a focus on personalising employment support. It must also be a priority to tackle the backlogs in our NHS and social care that have built up over the past decade. In addition, I support an “into work guarantee” which would allow disabled people to try work without fear of losing their benefits and having to undergo assessments again.

More widely, Ministers must also ensure that they work with disabled people and disabled people’s organisations throughout the policy-making processes. This is often referred to as “co-production”. It is unfortunate, in my view, that there has been no move by the Department of Work and Pensions to do this.

Thank you again for writing to me about this important issue. I am happy to write a representation on your behalf to the relevant government department to ensure that your concerns are raised.

All very true, but that's not what I frigging well asked him! 🤬 I've written back pointing out he hadn't addressed my actual concern, so ,I'll see what he comes back with.
 
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Just to add, this amendment, if passed, might require secondary legislation to bring it into force. Secondary legislation (or a Statutory Instrument (SI)) is the usual way clauses in legislation are given effect, as they go into the details of what is, and isn't, allowed. So if this amendment is passed it might be curtailed to certain circumstances, such as when there is suspicion of fraud, etc.
 
"Proceeds of crime"?! For fuck's sake.

Yes, deliberate benefit fraud exists, but it's in a minority and these extremist policies never punish the criminals they're actually aimed at. Genuine fraudsters will find a way regardless. The sledgehammer and nut approach only punishes those who make a mistake, or were given wrong information, as this lady was.
 
LeytonCatLady said:
"Proceeds of crime"?! For fuck's sake.

Yes, deliberate benefit fraud exists, but it's in a minority and these extremist policies never punish the criminals they're actually aimed at. Genuine fraudsters will find a way regardless. The sledgehammer and nut approach only punishes those who make a mistake, or were given wrong information, as this lady was.
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This is the same mindset that brought us prosecutions of postmasters.

We are experiencing a very, very sinister shift in the dynamic of government.
 
marty21 said:
Housing Benefit fraud investigators & Housing fraud investigators have had the power to interview people under caution for many years (I was first aware of it in the 90s) I don't think they have power of arrest , they pass the evidence to the police who do the rest.
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had on once after my daughter was born tried to be intimidating got nothing from me turned out they'd been paying the wrong rate HB went up and got some back dated!
 
crossthebreeze said:
Big Issue: DWP recruiting 'covert surveillance officers' to snoop on benefit claimants: 'I fear for the future'
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A potentially worrying development - back to harrassing disabled people?

The job roles are, according to the advertisement on GOV.UK, part of the DWP’s response to tackling fraud within the welfare system.

The ad says: “The department utilises covert surveillance to gather evidence to prove/disprove offences” – although it is not clear what these offences are. The roles are based in 20 locations across the country with salaries ranging from £29,500 to £33,979.

The job’s description is very vague on detail as to what the job actually entails. It includes “leading in taking forward tasking requests”, sometimes leading “on the activities of the surveillance team” and “actively participating in surveillance operations”, with hours described as “unsociable”, starting early and ending late.

The job roles are, according to the advertisement on GOV.UK, part of the DWP’s response to tackling fraud within the welfare system.
The ad says: “The department utilises covert surveillance to gather evidence to prove/disprove offences” – although it is not clear what these offences are. The roles are based in 20 locations across the country with salaries ranging from £29,500 to £33,979.
The job’s description is very vague on detail as to what the job actually entails. It includes “leading in taking forward tasking requests”, sometimes leading “on the activities of the surveillance team” and “actively participating in surveillance operations”, with hours described as “unsociable”, starting early and
The ad does however state that hirees will be producing “evidential packages” which include obtaining and writing up witness statements to provide evidence of the activities witnessed. Successful applicants may be required to wear “covert audio equipment” and will also have to present the evidence obtained, which includes compiling and editing video and audio data.
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StoneRoad said:
More than somewhat speechless at the outcome of this case !

www.bbc.co.uk

DWP take Cheshire woman's inheritance over supermarket job

Vivienne Groom was prosecuted for failing to declare her income while caring for her mum.
www.bbc.co.uk
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I mentioned that in another thread. It's just the banality of it. The mediocre tyranny and the casual bureacratic cruelty. It's so depressing. To lose what remains of her mother to a soulless bunch of cunts operating their tick box culture.

A primde candidate for a whipround if ever there was one. Hope she gets some justice from this, if possible
 
I know it's terribly unfashionable to make comparisons with Nazi Germany, etc., but this creeping increase of powers we are seeing, with increasing numbers of private and unaccountable agencies being handed greater powers to do more harm to people without any oversight smacks very much of a lot of the same kind of organisational manoeuvreing that was going on in Germany in the 1930s - apparently insignificant little packets of control and authority being handed to arm's length organisations, only to suddenly find themselves back in control of the centre, but with sweeping, creeping influence into people's lives.

We're seeing it with Patel and Braverman's attempts to criminalise protest, now this effort to quasi-criminalise aspects of benefits rules, we saw it with the Post Office, it goes on with various aspects of civil life all over the place. And it should be bloody scary, because it really only needs the laces tightening, and we all suddenly find ourselves in a very invidious position where "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" will become a meaningless concept, and so many of the rights and freedoms we take as much for granted as the ability to breathe will suddenly be taken away from us.

This carers' business is a harbinger of what we have to come. For years, the DWP is supposed to have been doing "their bit" in advising claimants of carer's allowance where there was something wrong with their claim. They haven't been doing that - with some or other administrative excuse - but are quite happy to then claim that mistaken claims that THEY have allowed to run on are somehow now evidence of ongoing fraud, and perfectly legitimate reasons for them to utterly wreck lives on their whim.

This isn't new. Back in about 2002, I was made redundant, and needed to claim on my mortgage insurance, which in turn required me to sign on at the (then) DSS. I recall turning up for my initial interview, 10 minutes early, only to be kept waiting because the receptionist was on the phone. 15 minutes later she came off the phone and booked me in, whereupon the woman I was supposed to be being interviewed by stormed out of her office, accused me of being late, and refused to see me ("we do not have enough time to do this interview now"). If I hadn't stood my ground, my claim would have been delayed by the two weeks I had to wait for the next appointment. Small change in the grand scheme of things, but an example of how the system has an ingrained attitude of "whatever goes wrong, it's on the claimant".

Sure, give DWP powers of arrest. But at the very least ensure that those powers are overseen by an independent body with teeth and powers to come down like a ton of bricks whenever DWP oversteps the line. And since that patently isn't going to happen, don't give DWP powers of arrest. We have to stop this - we cannot simply continue to meekly except this encroachment of oppression into our lives. To go back to Nazi Germany, Rev. Niemoller had it right - they might be going for people we don't care about now, but if we don't do something now, it WILL be us they come for eventually.
 
Another case - man makes an honest mistake (which the DWP admits, given the utter complexity of the form) DWP forces him to sell his home and takes £20k in 'benefit overpayments' from him. Won't return the money.

www.theguardian.com

Carer convicted over benefit error worth 30p a week fights to clear his name

George Henderson had to sell his home to repay nearly £20,000, years after ticking wrong box on carer’s allowance form
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
equationgirl said:
Another case - man makes an honest mistake (which the DWP admits, given the utter complexity of the form) DWP forces him to sell his home and takes £20k in 'benefit overpayments' from him. Won't return the money.

www.theguardian.com

Carer convicted over benefit error worth 30p a week fights to clear his name

George Henderson had to sell his home to repay nearly £20,000, years after ticking wrong box on carer’s allowance form
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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They're a heartless bunch of cunts.
 
 
LeytonCatLady said:
Great news.

DWP bank surveillance law dropped

Get the benefits you're entitled to: help with personal independence payment (PIP), universal credit (UC), employment and support allowance (ESA),disability living allowance (DLA). Claims, assessments, reviews, appeals.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk www.benefitsandwork.co.uk

Data Protection and Digital Information Bill dropped (via Passle)

Data Protection and Digital Information bill has been dropped

Data Protection and Digital Information Bill falls ahead of the UK General Election

Dropped, again: the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill

Campaign win: Data Protection and Digital Information Bill dropped - Clive Lewis

Data Protection and Digital Information Bill falls in Parliament ‘wash up’ | UKAuthority
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Now we have to hope it's not picked up by the red tories
 
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