Claiming benefits for the first time. Advise needed please.

[mod]

On tuesday the benefits office said someone will call me back within 24 hours interview / chat to see what im entitled to claim for. No one called so i just called them
again and was told id be called today. let’s see. but i can see this process is gonna be a drag and quite painful.

Had a mini result yesterday. was chatting to my very good mate in berlin and bemoaning the fact i’m starting to get fed up sitting in my flat most of the at looking for jobs and trying to sort out the stuff we are discussing.

He runs his own winter sauna business which started up last week and said ‘come and work for me for a few days’ Half joking. checked easy jet and 3 days wages from him more than covered the flights and il take the 4th day off to visit some of my fav old haunts (berlin is home from home). And gets me out of here for 4 days. Plus i’ll be staying at his for free. Touch.

 

[LakieLady]

My advice is don't attempt to complete the form all at once. It can be a soul destroying experience due to the way things need to be be worded. Especially don't be all 'stiff upper lip' about soldiering on, it won't help you meet the criteria for the payment - you need to think in terms of your worst day and also bear in mind if you did push through, what would be the physical/mental cost to you on the following days?

The test for PIP is how you are the majority of the time, not "worst" days (that was DLA).

This is why PIP assessors (and appeal tribunals) always ask how many days a week you're unable to do something.

 

[Silas Loom]

The test for PIP is how you are the majority of the time, not "worst" days (that was DLA).

This is why PIP assessors (and appeal tribunals) always ask how many days a week you're unable to do something.

True, but you should still consider what you are able to do safely, reliably and repeatedly, rather than as a one-off that may screw you the next day.

 

[equationgirl]

The test for PIP is how you are the majority of the time, not "worst" days (that was DLA).

This is why PIP assessors (and appeal tribunals) always ask how many days a week you're unable to do something.

Plus the 'stiff upper lip' attitude does not get anyone awarded anything they need because they're coping, so clearly they don't need that PIP component.

 

[Petcha]

Sorry to piggyback this thread. Just wanted to get some advice.

I lost my job a little while back and am now signing on for UC, been though all the screening stuff and expecting my first £393 payment in early Jan. I didn't apply for the housing bit at the time but someone said I should so I've uploaded my tenancy agreement. The complicated bit is that I'm head tenant, and I have a lodger. So I pay the full £1600 to my landlord. My lodger pays £1200 all bills included. So I pay the other £400 plus all the bills, which come to about £400 so we're even basically.

My question is, will they give me HB based on the full amount or just my share? And also how honest should I be about this. Should I just say I'm paying the full £1600 (which technically I am)

 

[freshapple]

Sorry to piggyback this thread. Just wanted to get some advice.

I lost my job a little while back and am now signing on for UC, been though all the screening stuff and expecting my first £393 payment in early Jan. I didn't apply for the housing bit at the time but someone said I should so I've uploaded my tenancy agreement. The complicated bit is that I'm head tenant, and I have a lodger. So I pay the full £1600 to my landlord. My lodger pays £1200 all bills included. So I pay the other £400 plus all the bills, which come to about £400 so we're even basically.

My question is, will they give me HB based on the full amount or just my share? And also how honest should I be about this. Should I just say I'm paying the full £1600 (which technically I am)

I think it depends on how relaxed you are about potentially having a criminal record.

 

[iona]

Petcha some info here

Housing costs and Universal Credit

Universal Credit can include help with housing costs - paying your landlord, what to do if you cannot pay your rent, other help you can get.

www.gov.uk

 

[Petcha]

I think it depends on how relaxed you are about potentially having a criminal record.

Well technically I'm paying all the rent. In fact the guy's just given his notice anyway although I'd expect to find a replacement fairly quickly.

So I should tell them my share of the rent is £400? Even though I pay some fairly hefty bills on top of that?

 

[MrsArcanum]

Well technically I'm paying all the rent. In fact the guy's just given his notice anyway although I'd expect to find a replacement fairly quickly.

So I should tell them my share of the rent is £400? Even though I pay some fairly hefty bills on top of that?

You are allowed to have a lodger and claim benefits IIRC - LakieLady will be able to confirm if this is the case or not.

Also remember the Housing Allowance is reduced if you have more bedrooms than you need if in Social Housing, to encourage letting out the room.

Getting a lodger

What to think about before taking in a lodger and becoming a resident landlord.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Sorry to piggyback this thread. Just wanted to get some advice.

I lost my job a little while back and am now signing on for UC, been though all the screening stuff and expecting my first £393 payment in early Jan. I didn't apply for the housing bit at the time but someone said I should so I've uploaded my tenancy agreement. The complicated bit is that I'm head tenant, and I have a lodger. So I pay the full £1600 to my landlord. My lodger pays £1200 all bills included. So I pay the other £400 plus all the bills, which come to about £400 so we're even basically.

My question is, will they give me HB based on the full amount or just my share? And also how honest should I be about this. Should I just say I'm paying the full £1600 (which technically I am)

I used to do housing benefits, but that was 30+ years ago before this UC bollocks started, so I'm not up to date with it.

I take it that you (in your own name) have a tenancy agreement with whoever owns the place, and lodger has a lodger agreement (whether in writing or not) with you?

At that time, from memory, you would have told them what your rent is, and also your income from lodger and they would have sorted it out. Lodger would (if on a low income) have been able to claim housing benefit separately.

bills shouldn't come in to it - they are separate from the rent, so whatever you're paying for bills, and whatever lodger is paying for bills, shouldn't be part of the calculation.

with lodgers / house sharers etc, you can sometimes have to argue with the benefits people that they aren't a 'partner' - benefits is one of the few bits of the system that recognises 'common law' partners (as it works to the system's advantage that way), and a partner can now be same or opposite sex. Having separate bedrooms is one argument, each having your own arrangements for shopping / cooking, laundry and so on (separate shelves / cupboards in the kitchen and so on.) There's an outside chance they may want to visit and make sure that you really exist and that you really are 'separate households'

Also, assuming you're a single person and it's a 2 bed place, you may find that they restrict how much they will pay on the housing element because you're renting somewhere 'too big' (the 'bedroom tax' introduced a while ago) - not sure how that plays out when you have a lodger.

This (site I'd not met before) says income from lodger is disregarded, but they will 'bedroom tax' you for having a 2 bed place. Which may balance out.

They may probably want something in writing about this here lodger.

My inclination would be to tell them the circumstances and see what they say - and argue about it (with assistance from someone more up to date than me) if need be.

And are you claiming council tax reduction (on income grounds)? This is different to the single person discount. It (like housing benefit) used to be dealt with via local councils, I'm not sure how it works now if there's a UC claim going as well. But don't expect the DWP to tell you what you're entitled to.

Don't let the bastards grind you down.

 

[MrsArcanum]

I used to do housing benefits, but that was 30+ years ago before this UC bollocks started, so I'm not up to date with it.

I take it that you (in your own name) have a tenancy agreement with whoever owns the place, and lodger has a lodger agreement (whether in writing or not) with you?

At that time, from memory, you would have told them what your rent is, and also your income from lodger and they would have sorted it out. Lodger would (if on a low income) have been able to claim housing benefit separately.

bills shouldn't come in to it - they are separate from the rent, so whatever you're paying for bills, and whatever lodger is paying for bills, shouldn't be part of the calculation.

with lodgers / house sharers etc, you can sometimes have to argue with the benefits people that they aren't a 'partner' - benefits is one of the few bits of the system that recognises 'common law' partners (as it works to the system's advantage that way), and a partner can now be same or opposite sex. Having separate bedrooms is one argument, each having your own arrangements for shopping / cooking, laundry and so on (separate shelves / cupboards in the kitchen and so on.) There's an outside chance they may want to visit and make sure that you really exist and that you really are 'separate households'

Also, assuming you're a single person and it's a 2 bed place, you may find that they restrict how much they will pay on the housing element because you're renting somewhere 'too big' (the 'bedroom tax' introduced a while ago) - not sure how that plays out when you have a lodger.

This (site I'd not met before) says income from lodger is disregarded, but they will 'bedroom tax' you for having a 2 bed place. Which may balance out.

They may probably want something in writing about this here lodger.

My inclination would be to tell them the circumstances and see what they say - and argue about it (with assistance from someone more up to date than me) if need be.

And are you claiming council tax reduction (on income grounds)? This is different to the single person discount. It (like housing benefit) used to be dealt with via local councils, I'm not sure how it works now if there's a UC claim going as well. But don't expect the DWP to tell you what you're entitled to.

Don't let the bastards grind you down.

Housing benefit is only paid to people in Supported Housing now. UC has a Housing Element included in the payment based on Local Housing Allowance for the area.

 

[Petcha]

Housing benefit is only paid to people in Supported Housing now. UC has a Housing Element included in the payment based on Local Housing Allowance for the area.

Ok yes, I got the terminlogy wrong. yes, the its the Housing part of UC. Ive got my meeting on Friday. I'll just be totally honest and see what they'll do. Anything is better than nothing. My rent sounds ludicrously low but yeh I do all the bills. And yes I was bit naughty when the lodger moved in and didn't inform the council that I had a lodger (I was already claiming the single person occupancy thing).

Thank you guys for the answers, I'll digest them all before my meeting on Friday. And no, I don't particularly fancy a criminal record. When the new lodger moves in I'll put him on the record.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

And yes I was bit naughty when the lodger moved in and didn't inform the council that I had a lodger (I was already claiming the single person occupancy thing).

yes - just because things are different departments, be careful with telling different bits of 'the system' different things or not telling each bit - they may find out eventually.

for council tax, it can depend whether it's lodger's 'permanent address' - i had a lodger here a few years back, but he was weekly commuting, and still registered with GP and that sort of thing near his regular home. my local council accepted that didn't make him resident here for council tax so i could continue with the single occupancy discount - i did clear it with them to avoid landing in the shit at a later stage... (the interpretation of this one may vary from one council to another, and that was a while ago, so worth seeking local advice if that's an option.)

 

[MrsArcanum]

Ok yes, I got the terminlogy wrong. yes, the its the Housing part of UC. Ive got my meeting on Friday. I'll just be totally honest and see what they'll do. Anything is better than nothing. My rent sounds ludicrously low but yeh I do all the bills. And yes I was bit naughty when the lodger moved in and didn't inform the council that I had a lodger (I was already claiming the single person occupancy thing).

Thank you guys for the answers, I'll digest them all before my meeting on Friday. And no, I don't particularly fancy a criminal record. When the new lodger moves in I'll put him on the record.

The important part is to separate out what each part of the charges to the Lodger are. You can charge rent with something towards utilities (but not water) and Council tax, but not food or all the cost of services.

 

[bellaozzydog]

Sorry to piggyback this thread. Just wanted to get some advice.

I lost my job a little while back and am now signing on for UC, been though all the screening stuff and expecting my first £393 payment in early Jan. I didn't apply for the housing bit at the time but someone said I should so I've uploaded my tenancy agreement. The complicated bit is that I'm head tenant, and I have a lodger. So I pay the full £1600 to my landlord. My lodger pays £1200 all bills included. So I pay the other £400 plus all the bills, which come to about £400 so we're even basically.

My question is, will they give me HB based on the full amount or just my share? And also how honest should I be about this. Should I just say I'm paying the full £1600 (which technically I am)

He who dares Rodney

You pay the landlord 1600 quid it goes out your account monthly.

 

[Petcha]

yes - just because things are different departments, be careful with telling different bits of 'the system' different things or not telling each bit - they may find out eventually.

for council tax, it can depend whether it's lodger's 'permanent address' - i had a lodger here a few years back, but he was weekly commuting, and still registered with GP and that sort of thing near his regular home. my local council accepted that didn't make him resident here for council tax so i could continue with the single occupancy discount - i did clear it with them to avoid landing in the shit at a later stage... (the interpretation of this one may vary from one council to another, and that was a while ago, so worth seeking local advice if that's an option.)

Ok. My current lodger is a young guy from Rugby who is in London on an internship and it was always gonna be a temp thing. They might accept that I was giving a bit of a leg up to a kid who had never even had a flat before and where I live rooms are pretty hard to come by so he got kinda lucky really. If they do come asking.

I don't plan to be on UC for long anyway. But, famous last words n all.

 

[Petcha]

He who dares Rodney

You pay the landlord 1600 quid it goes out your account monthly.

Well yes, this has crossed my mind. My limited experience of dealing with these fuckers is they're not the sharpest pencils in the box so it might go unnoticed.

 

[weepiper]

You have to give them bank statements so I wouldn't advise lying. They're going to fuck you for claiming single person discount too.

 

[Petcha]

You have to give them bank statements so I wouldn't advise lying. They're going to fuck you for claiming single person discount too.

They've not asked for bank statements so far and I'm all good to go on the main UC thing, that's all signed off. The Housing bit has been a bit of an after thought. It's all a lil complicated. But if they want the extra £30 or a month back since this kid's been living with me, that's fine. I'll just say it was an oversight.

 

[marty21]

Housing benefit is only paid to people in Supported Housing now. UC has a Housing Element included in the payment based on Local Housing Allowance for the area.

HB is still being paid for existing claims with no break , so you can move & still claim HB provided there is no break in the claim. New claims have to be UC rent element. (I work for a LA in Housing) . HB is a legacy benefit, and will be phased out in the next couple of years)

 

[weepiper]

They've not asked for bank statements so far and I'm all good to go on the main UC thing, that's all signed off. The Housing bit has been a bit of an after thought. It's all a lil complicated. But if they want the extra £30 or a month back since this kid's been living with me, that's fine. I'll just say it was an oversight.

You have to give them your bank details and they have the power to just have a look in it if they fancy. It's really not a good idea.

 

[Petcha]

HB is still being paid for existing claims with no break , so you can move & still claim HB provided there is no break in the claim. New claims have to be UC rent element. (I work for a LA in Housing) . HB is a legacy benefit, and will be phased out in the next couple of years)

Do the UC people actually communicate with the LAs on this. My vibe on the meetings I've had with them is that they're very much siloed? Just the way they were talking. No proof was asked for by the UC about the single occupancy thing, she just ticked the box.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Do the UC people actually communicate with the LAs on this. My vibe on the meetings I've had with them is that they're very much siloed? Just the way they were talking. No proof was asked for by the UC about the single occupancy thing, she just ticked the box.

not sure if they still do. probably only when it suits then and probably not when it might help people.

in theory they can compare notes / do things to prevent fraud

(when i was involved, housing benefits offices used to get advised of people going on to / off income support - although it was a bit haphazard round the edges of the borough, as the DSS system (or was it still DHSS then?) couldn't quite grasp that a few streets in postcode XX1 weren't actually in our patch, and a few streets in postcode XX2 - which was mostly in the next borough - were...)

 

[LakieLady]

Sorry to piggyback this thread. Just wanted to get some advice.

I lost my job a little while back and am now signing on for UC, been though all the screening stuff and expecting my first £393 payment in early Jan. I didn't apply for the housing bit at the time but someone said I should so I've uploaded my tenancy agreement. The complicated bit is that I'm head tenant, and I have a lodger. So I pay the full £1600 to my landlord. My lodger pays £1200 all bills included. So I pay the other £400 plus all the bills, which come to about £400 so we're even basically.

My question is, will they give me HB based on the full amount or just my share? And also how honest should I be about this. Should I just say I'm paying the full £1600 (which technically I am)

Income from lodgers is disregarded in UC, but you should still declare it.

However, the maximum they will include for rent is the local housing allowance rate for the size of property you are entitled to, ie one bedroom for a single person or couple, a second bedroom for one child or two if they can share. You can check how much you are entitled to here:

LHA rates

ETA: Sorry, may have jumped the gun here. If it's social housing, the rules are quite different. I'd need to look them up, and am not at work this week.

 

[newme]

Can you have a lodger in a council house?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Can you have a lodger in a council house?

it depends on the particular council's tenancy agreement, but so long as it doesn't cause the place to become 'overcrowded' then it's usually ok. you may have to get the council's permission first, or tell them.

the sort of 'sub-letting' that is a definite no (and there was talk about making a criminal offence but i'm not sure it happened) is where the official tenant/s let the whole house / flat out then bugger off and live somewhere else.

 

[scifisam]

it depends on the particular council's tenancy agreement, but so long as it doesn't cause the place to become 'overcrowded' then it's usually ok. you may have to get the council's permission first, or tell them.

the sort of 'sub-letting' that is a definite no (and there was talk about making a criminal offence but i'm not sure it happened) is where the official tenant/s let the whole house / flat out then bugger off and live somewhere else.

You do have to get the council/HA's permission first, but if it wasn't intended to be an actual "lodger" situation then the landlord is unlikely to be bothered about not notifying them; they might be bothered about charging him most of the rent of the flat though! Council tax will be bothered, though. And you can get a large discount off your council tax when you apply for UC too.

It's potentially going to cause you a fair few problems TBH. Which is a shame, because lodging income is tax-free up to a certain limit, so doing it off the books isn't usually worth it.

If he didn't have a tenancy agreement and is about to leave then it might be worth not declaring him at all in retrospect. But do declare the next one!

 

[newme]

it depends on the particular council's tenancy agreement, but so long as it doesn't cause the place to become 'overcrowded' then it's usually ok. you may have to get the council's permission first, or tell them.

the sort of 'sub-letting' that is a definite no (and there was talk about making a criminal offence but i'm not sure it happened) is where the official tenant/s let the whole house / flat out then bugger off and live somewhere else.

I was actually thinking about exactly when we got down to beyond our official capacity (even if one room is a box room with a single bed mounted over the stairs, with room to walk through the door and have a wardrobe and desk designated a bedroom, smaller than most single occupancy offices). At which point I believe an under-occupancy fee may occur? Of course with permission and everything above board and it not being the pissy little room thats smaller than the pissing for room and shower. Likely a decade or more just wondering thats all.

 

[scifisam]

I was actually thinking about exactly when we got down to beyond our official capacity (even if one room is a box room with a single bed mounted over the stairs, with room to walk through the door and have a wardrobe and desk designated a bedroom, smaller than most single occupancy offices). At which point I believe an under-occupancy fee may occur? Of course with permission and everything above board and it not being the pissy little room thats smaller than the pissing for room and shower. Likely a decade or more just wondering thats all.

There's no under-occupancy fee, it's that your housing benefit or housing element is reduced by a certain amount if you have a "spare room." If you're not claiming those benefits it makes no difference.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

At which point I believe an under-occupancy fee may occur?

There's no under-occupancy fee, it's that your housing benefit or housing element is reduced by a certain amount if you have a "spare room." If you're not claiming those benefits it makes no difference.

yes, that.

generally speaking, you're in the wrong if you 'overcrowd' a place, but i've never heard of an 'under-occupancy fee' in terms of the actual rent.

if you are get to the point where you're seriously under-occupying (e.g. after children have grown up and moved out), some councils / housing associations have a scheme that encourages tenants to move to a smaller place - some will pay something towards moving costs, decorating / carpeting new place and so on, but it's not a national scheme.