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Sunak wants to stop benefits after a year

ouirdeaux said:
That makes no sense whatsoever. They're bastards, but they're being bastards to avoid paying out money, not because they enjoy making people suffer. Of course, any given employee might enjoy this, but that's just a perk of the job.
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No it's performative. They know the benefits from JC are a pittance and that the bulk of benefits goes to actually ill people and pensions. But constantly shitting on people put of work plays well to the papers and to their core voters. So ramp up the screws, people on benefits don't vote anyway and lets keep pretending there are deserving and undeserving poor people and being out of work is a moral failing.
 
ouirdeaux said:
Sure. But nobody's answered my question about how they can prove you intentionally flubbed an interview, except Karl Masks, who said they can do what they like. So I asked why they don't do that all the time whenever someone reports they were interviewed and rejected. No answers as of yet.

Edit: missed KM's answer.
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What happened to the policy where they forced claimants to work for their dole money? I can see that making a comeback. Or does it still exist?
 
Karl Masks said:
Clearly it wouldn' tbe fair to penalise people, but if you are still unemployed after a year I can well believe they would question your honesty.
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I was unemployed for four years. I didn't sabotage interviews -- I wanted to work -- but I rarely got any. I listed jobs I hadn't applied for, because I couldn't be bothered to send off yet another hopeless attempt, given that similar attempts to find work at things I could do but was too old to be considered for without industry-specific experience, and so they could have questioned my honesty on that, but they didn't. How do they know what you've applied for?

They never threatened me. They nagged, and sometimes sent me on pointless courses. That was it.
 
How long will this ridiculous policy hypotherically come into effect? Surely not before the GE. And given the Tories are gonna be wiped out there's no way it'll pass in the commons. Surely.
 
Karl Masks said:
I think it comes down to how many times you are getting genuinely rejected and perhaps assuming that you are not honestly seeking work.

I don't know. It entirely depends on the attitude of the advisors and the culture at the JC you visit I suppose. Clearly it wouldn' tbe fair to penalise people, but if you are still unemployed after a year I can well believe they would question your honesty. That just seems to be the culture. Clearly informed by attitudes such as those displayed by the awful Mel Stride and his completely out of touch arrogant master
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I think you as a banned returner have no right to question anyone's honesty
 
ouirdeaux said:
I was unemployed for four years. I didn't sabotage interviews -- I wanted to work -- but I rarely got any. I listed jobs I hadn't applied for, because I couldn't be bothered to send off yet another hopeless attempt, given that similar attempts to find work at things I could do but was too old to be considered for without industry-specific experience, and so they could have questioned my honesty on that, but they didn't. How do they know what you've applied for?

They never threatened me. They nagged, and sometimes sent me on pointless courses. That was it.
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I don't know how it works now but they used to insist you kept a record of everything you've done. So they would know what you've applied for because you would tell them.

Like I said, i guess it comes down to the culture and attitudes of the people that sign you on, if even that is how it still works.

The real question with all of this is whether Labour will push it through instead
 
Karl Masks said:
I don't know how it works now but they used to insist you kept a record of everything you've done. So they would know what you've applied for because you would tell them.

Like I said, i guess it comes down to the culture and attitudes of the people that sign you on, if even that is how it still works.

The real question with all of this is whether Labour will push it through instead
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They still do. You have an online Universal Credit account and there's a Job Applications section where you keep a record of everything you've applied for and all interviews attended.
 
Petcha said:
I don't think Labour will back this latest round of bullshit, no
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Hope you're right. I remember when Cameron was on about removing housing benefit from under 25s, which was obviously seen as too extreme. May's government brought that in for under 21s but it was overturned in December 2018 after homelessness rose. I was glad they saw sense in the end, but what the fuck did they think would happen. This is similar shite, just like their proposal to spy on bank accounts.
 
Karl Masks said:
they used to insist you kept a record of everything you've done. So they would know what you've applied for because you would tell them.
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Well, that's what I said, or at least thought I'd implied. That's the point.

You write down that you've applied for the positions of XYZ advertised by agencies ABCDE for firms FGHIJ. How do they know you have?
 
ouirdeaux said:
Well, that's what I said, or at least thought I'd implied. That's the point.

You write down that you've applied for the positions of XYZ advertised by agencies ABCDE for firms FGHIJ. How do they know you have?
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At this point, they take your word for it. They don't currently check up, and employers probably can't give details anyway because of data protection. So I wonder if after this 12 month mark they'll compel employers to share that info like they're doing with the banks.
 
LeytonCatLady said:
They still do. You have an online Universal Credit account and there's a Job Applications section where you keep a record of everything you've applied for and all interviews attended.
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Do they still have that Universal Job Match site?

Last time I was unemployed, that had just come in. I refused to give them access to look at my account, (remember discussions about this?) but logged everything I applied for and sent by email.
 
Petcha said:
I don't think Labour will back this latest round of bullshit, no
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Well this guy seems to agree. NOt sure theres' much evidence to support his claims, not to guarantee these 'policies' will last the material conditions Labour will inherit

 
xenon said:
Do they still have that Universal Job Match site?

Last time I was unemployed, that had just come in. I refused to give them access to look at my account, (remember discussions about this?) but logged everything I applied for and sent by email.
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No, UJM has been replaced by Find a Job, and that's separate from your UC account/job log.
 
Cloo said:
I just fucking wish other parties had the guts to counter the Tory narrative - to just come out and say what a huge lie it is that we can't afford benefits and to point out how much more it costs us to allow rich people to cheat on tax. But unfortunately the rich people who cheat on tax own the media and would immediately frame this as 'Labour wants to give YOUR money to 3 million people who want to sit at home all day in their pyjamas'
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:thumbs: Kevin Bridges for PM

 
From gov.uk: Disability benefits system to be reviewed as PM outlines "moral mission" to reform welfare

We will legislate in the next parliament to change the rules so that anyone who has been on benefits for 12 months and doesn’t comply with conditions set by their Work Coach – including accepting available work - will have their unemployment claim closed and their benefits removed entirely.

OK, so it seems you won't have your benefits stopped automatically when you reach the 12 month mark - just if you're deemed not to have complied with what your work coach asks you to do after that. However, that already happens from day one of a claim, so I bet the "conditions" after the 12 month point will be deliberately made stricter and harder to comply with.
 
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LeytonCatLady said:
From gov.uk: Disability benefits system to be reviewed as PM outlines "moral mission" to reform welfare

We will legislate in the next parliament to change the rules so that anyone who has been on benefits for 12 months and doesn’t comply with conditions set by their Work Coach – including accepting available work - will have their unemployment claim closed and their benefits removed entirely.

OK, so it seems you won't have your benefits stopped automatically when you reach the 12 month mark - just if you're deemed not to have complied with what your work coach asks you to do after that. However, that already happens from day one of a claim, so I bet the "conditions" after the 12 month point will be deliberately made stricter and harder to comply with.
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Then people end up homeless. Hence a £2500 fine and jail.

1) Make it so job seekers can get the most menial jobs.
a) More profit to Tory mates.
2) Or end up homeless.
3) Make homelessness illegal.
4) Jail the homeless.
5) Privatise the jails and introduce an American-type work in jail system.
6) PROFIT
 
Storm Fox said:
Then people end up homeless. Hence a £2500 fine and jail.

1) Make it so job seekers can get the most menial jobs.
a) More profit to Tory mates.
2) Or end up homeless.
3) Make homelessness illegal.
4) Jail the homeless.
5) Privatise the jails and introduce an American-type work in jail system.
6) PROFIT
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Which is weird, because this government has already had to (covertly) deal with the fact that we don't actually have enough space in our prisons to accommodate the people they ALREADY consider to be criminals.
 
existentialist said:
Which is weird, because this government has already had to (covertly) deal with the fact that we don't actually have enough space in our prisons to accommodate the people they ALREADY consider to be criminals.
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Maybe it is just a really poorly thought-through policy, and no one has given any thought to its consequences, but I find that hard to believe of this government. :hmm:
 
I thought they could already stop benefits if they didn't think the claimant was putting in enough effort to find a job. When Son Q was unemployed back in 2015-16 they stopped his benefits more than once on what seemed like very spurious reasons at the time. They've even stopped them because he wasn't applying for jobs because he had found one. I can't imagine the system has grown more liberal since then, how is Sevenbins plan any different from what already exists?
 
Storm Fox said:
Maybe it is just a really poorly thought-through policy, and no one has given any thought to its consequences, but I find that hard to believe of this government. :hmm:
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Nah, this is positioning. A desperate attempt to play to their extremist base, and also piss in the chips of whoever comes afterwards.... "See, if you'd done this, none of this would have happened", free of the consequences of actiually having to implement it.
 
existentialist said:
Nah, this is positioning. A desperate attempt to play to their extremist base, and also piss in the chips of whoever comes afterwards.... "See, if you'd done this, none of this would have happened", free of the consequences of actiually having to implement it.
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Not sure about the last bit, but it's definitely an appeal to the Truss/Braverman lunatic fringe
 
MickiQ said:
I thought they could already stop benefits if they didn't think the claimant was putting in enough effort to find a job. When Son Q was unemployed back in 2015-16 they stopped his benefits more than once on what seemed like very spurious reasons at the time. They've even stopped them because he wasn't applying for jobs because he had found one. I can't imagine the system has grown more liberal since then, how is Sevenbins plan any different from what already exists?
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Yes they can do.

It’s different because just auto cut off after 12 months
 
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