Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!

[little_legs]

The posts made by ViolentPanda on page 427 need to pinned at the top of P&P & WP forums. The P&P & WP regulars need to bear with those, myself included, who (a) have internalised the societal structures we live in and (b) who aren't as informed or possess the level of critical thinking the regulars expect us to be/have.

 

[coley]

If May wants to kiss trumps ass, letting Assange leg it would be the smart move right now.

Trumps rimming of Putins arse beats Mays efforts hollow.

"Palin now says she has changed her mind since WikiLeaks published Democratic Party emails"
Whey, now theres a surprise!

 

[coley]

To be fair to him, Trump is probably the only GOP Presidential nominee (or at least the only one of any substance) to openly praise a single payer healthcare system in at least the last thirty years.

Wish I could understand what this "single payer healthcare" is all about? Got a decent link? The ones I have tried are all pretty partisan.

 

[coley]

The posts made by ViolentPanda on page 427 need to pinned at the top of P&P & WP forums. The P&P & WP regulars need to bear with those, myself included, who (a) have internalised the societal structures we live in and (b) who aren't as informed or possess the level of critical thinking the regulars expect us to be/have.

Good point, VP and others often make their points expecting some of us to have the same grounding in 'Critical thinking' that they have.

"who (a) have internalised the societal structures we live in"
Eh?

 

[agricola]

Wish I could understand what this "single payer healthcare" is all about? Got a decent link? The ones I have tried are all pretty partisan.

Trump being Trump, it does vary from interview to interview. Also he did change his tone once he won the primaries (and they managed to foist Pence and the rest of their beliefs onto him):

(from around 1:45 in)

 

[coley]

Aye whey, back to Auld Pratchet, the world needs a Patrician, and Samuel Vines, seems they have ended up with CMOTD and Nobby-

 

[CRI]

For those interested, here's a few pieces on the intersections of race, class, gender and other factors in the US context, particularly related to the elections.

For others, move along, nothing to see here.

Race, Income, and Elections: The White (Male?) Working Class
The Plight Of The White Working Class Isn’t Economic, It’s Cultural
What Trump Talks About When He Talks About the Working Class
Stop Obsessing Over White Working-Class Voters
Donald Trump Won on White-Male Resentment—but Don’t Confuse That With the Working Class
What So Many People Don’t Get About the U.S. Working Class
White women voted for Trump in 2016 because they still believe white men are their saviors

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Donald Trump is going to appoint Pam Bondi, who got an illegal payment from the Trump Foundation, to a White House spot

The Trump Foundation is under investigation in part because of an illegal contribution it made to Pam Bondi

Donald Trump is going to appoint Pam Bondi, who got an illegal payment from the Trump Foundation, to a White House spot

 

[J Ed]

The Federalist, lol

 

[J Ed]

CRI will be citing Stormfront at us next

 

[JimW]

...
The Plight Of The White Working Class Isn’t Economic, It’s Cultural
...

Fucking hell. This is poisonous.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It was the racism, stupid: White working-class “economic anxiety” is a zombie idea that needs to die

Donald Trump was supported by white voters across demographic groups. Can we stop coddling them?

But in the immediate present, the dominant narrative for explaining the rise of Donald Trump and his fascist movement has been centered upon the “white working class” and its purported “economic anxiety.” For a variety of reasons, this is a compelling story for the American corporate news media, the pundits and other elite opinion leaders.

The white economic anxiety narrative is simplistic. It is also the result of a type of “path dependence,” whereby the answers offered are largely a function of the questions asked. The white economic anxiety thesis is also a way for the pundit class — with a majority of its members being white and from a very narrow socioeconomic background — to ignore the enduring power of racism and sexism in American society.

Most important, the economic-anxiety thesis is in many ways incorrect.

It is hobbled on a foundational level: Who makes up the white working class? Is the white working class defined by geographic region, educational level, income or cultural habitus? How one defines the white working class will in turn shape any answer about its members’ voting habits and other political decisions.

To wit: Trump won white voters across almost every demographic category. Both low-income and high-income whites supported him at rates higher than their peers backed Hillary Clinton. In fact, the typical Trump supporter comes from a household that earns $72,000 a year — significantly above the national average — and has not been negatively affected by globalization.

Moreover, if the economic anxiety thesis were correct, blacks, Latinos and Native Americans (people who have much less wealth and income than whites) would have flocked to Trump. Instead, they were repulsed by him and overwhelmingly supported Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party.

A recent analysis of county-level census data shows, in fact, that Clinton won a higher percentage of the vote in economically distressed communities than did Trump. But Trump benefited from a statistical fluke, winning enough white voters in economically distressed Rust Belt areas to score an Electoral College majority while overwhelmingly losing the popular vote.

It was not only the much-discussed and much-pitied white-working class as a group that gave Trump the election (in combination with successful efforts by the Republican Party to suppress the votes of African-Americans, Latinos and other groups0. Nor was it only the possible impact of Russian meddling. It was white voters with college educations as well. Writing for the New Republic, Eric Sasson summarized this:

Perhaps, then, these Trump voters are the most deplorable of them all. They’re not suffering or desperate, and have no concrete reason to hate the status quo or to feel like they are in decline. They understand that Trump is manifestly unprepared to be president, have heard his many lies and insults, yet voted for him anyway. And without them, Trump wouldn’t have won. The media ought to focus on their motivations, too — and reporters won’t even have to fly to Youngstown to find them.

Tesler concluded:

Perhaps most importantly, the display shows that the main dividing line between Clinton and Trump voters was on the question of black deservingness. Most voters, regardless of who they supported in the presidential election, thought that average Americans are getting less than they should. Yet, Clinton’s voters were a great deal more likely than Trump’s to say that blacks have also gotten less than they deserve (57 percent to 12 percent respectively).

It appears, then, that Trump voters weren’t simply motivated by their widespread belief that average Americans are being left behind. Rather, their strong suspicion that African Americans are getting too much — a belief held by the overwhelming majority of Trump voters — was a much stronger predictor of their vote choices in last month’s election.

Racially resentful beliefs that African Americans are getting more than they deserve were so strongly linked to support for Trump, in fact, that their impact on both the 2016 Republican Primary and the general election were larger than they had ever been before.

Tesler’s new findings complement other work that has repeatedly shown that Trump voters (and Republicans as a group) have more negative attitudes about African-Americans and other people of color than do Democrats and self-described liberals and progressives, are more authoritarian and ethnocentric, and possess a delusional belief that white people are victims of racial discrimination in America.

It is increasingly clear that it was neither white economic anxiety operating in isolation nor the white working class as a monolithic group that won Trump the White House. Rather, it was the fact that Trump’s campaign, in an extension of at least five decades of Republican strategy, was able to use overt white racism and white racial resentment to exacerbate and manipulate misplaced anxieties about relative group power and privilege in American society.

Historically, to be white was to be the quintessential American. In the United States, whiteness also proceeds from an assumption that white people are always and forever to be dominant and consequently the most powerful of all racial groups. This is white identity politics as both a practice and ideology. It is also the not-so-subtle meaning of Donald Trump’s slogan “Make America Great Again!”

It was the racism, stupid: White working-class “economic anxiety” is a zombie idea that needs to die

 

[J Ed]

Failure to acknowledge this bigotry is true is what they mean when they say that we are 'class-exclusive' btw.

 

[CRI]

It was the racism, stupid: White working-class “economic anxiety” is a zombie idea that needs to die

And this - definitely this:

Here, a belief that it must be something other than racism (and sexism) that won Trump the election functions as a conceptual blinder for analysts and commentators who want to deny the ugly truth about the values and beliefs held by their fellow (white) Americans. In all, these factors are part of an effort, albeit a superficial one, to empathize with the supposed pain and anger of white working-class voters who feel “left behind” and by doing so normalize their egregious, irresponsible and hateful decision to support Donald Trump.

 

[JimW]

And this - definitely this:

Here, a belief that it must be something other than racism (and sexism) that won Trump the election functions as a conceptual blinder for analysts and commentators who want to deny the ugly truth about the values and beliefs held by their fellow (white) Americans. In all, these factors are part of an effort, albeit a superficial one, to empathize with the supposed pain and anger of white working-class voters who feel “left behind” and by doing so normalize their egregious, irresponsible and hateful decision to support Donald Trump.

But this suggests it was as much non-racists staying home because they couldn't stomach/motivate themselves/whatever to vote for Clinton because as has been said ad nauseum, she was a terrible candidate. Registered Voters Who Stayed Home Probably Cost Clinton The Election
It's far more blinkered to look at the votes for the racist candidate, unsurprisingly find lots of them came from racists and then assume that's the whole story.

 

[seventh bullet]

I am still waiting for you to tell me what makes me 'white working class' rather than a working class person who is white.

CRI

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Russian officials 'celebrated Donald Trump's victory as a geopolitical win for Moscow and congratulated themselves on the outcome

Senior Russian government officials celebrated Donald Trump's victory over Hillary Clinton as a geopolitical win for the Kremlin, it was reported last night.

The intercepted communications between Russian officials, some of whom had knowledge of the alleged cyber warfare campaign, showed the Russians congratulating themselves on the outcome theWashington Post reported.

Unnamed US officials said the intelligence contributed to the assessment that Moscow was trying to help Mr Trump win.

“The Russians felt pretty good about what happened on Nov 8 and they also felt pretty good about what they did,” a senior US official told the newspaper.

Russian officials 'celebrated Donald Trump's victory as a geopolitical win for Moscow and congratulated themselves on the outcome'

 

[agricola]

Russian officials 'celebrated Donald Trump's victory as a geopolitical win for Moscow and congratulated themselves on the outcome'

Why is this a surprise? She was openly advocating a policy which would have increased the likelyhood of a shooting war between the US and Russia, after all.

 

[CRI]

Fucking hell. This is poisonous.

Just to be clear, I didn't say I agreed with everything in the list of articles. The list included a few perspectives I haven't seen discussed so much, and most if not all from Americans. The Federalist is a bit of a shit, homophobic site most of the time, and that article was written back in August. But it does represent a certain bootstraps/evolve or die view you get in some quarters.

I also posted this before - about the often overlooked (particularly by those outside America) strong influence of fundamentalist Christianity (with a white supremacist flavour.) Absolutely resonates with my experience growing up in a rural, working class community in the Midwest, and how it remains, sadly. An Insider's View: The Dark Rigidity of Fundamentalist Rural America; In deep-red white America, the white Christian God is king.

 

[seventh bullet]

You googled and fucked up.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

She was openly advocating a policy which would have increased the likelyhood of a shooting war between the US and Russia, after all.

If that's the case, wouldn't it be in the Russians' best interests to hack the election in an attempt to prevent the election of a candidate who might threaten Russia's very existence?

 

[Yossarian]

If this thread carries on for another 400 pages, is there any chance of the North American posters and the British posters agreeing with each other?

Different countries, different circumstances, different politics, but because there is the same language, people have got the mistaken idea that there is a lot to talk to each other about and there is some hope of learning something.

The UK is a large-ish European nation and its society and economy has far more in common with neighbors like France, the Netherlands, and Germany than it does with the US, but people prefer to discuss the US because talking about crazy gun-toting foreigners who speak the same language is a lot more interesting than whatever is going on in Belgian politics.

 

[CRI]

But this suggests it was as much non-racists staying home because they couldn't stomach/motivate themselves/whatever to vote for Clinton because as has been said ad nauseum, she was a terrible candidate. Registered Voters Who Stayed Home Probably Cost Clinton The Election
It's far more blinkered to look at the votes for the racist candidate, unsurprisingly find lots of them came from racists and then assume that's the whole story.

It seems to be received wisdom that "she was a terrible candidate." I don't expect any candidates to be perfect, but I still haven't seen any compelling explanations why she was so much worse than any other candidate put forward by either the GOP or Democrat party say in the past 50 years.

I keep hearing something about her spoiling for a war, from folks both on the right and left, often using similar phrasing (perhaps because they use the same sources, I don't know?) but not seeing any actual evidence either from her track record as a Senator or Secretary of State, or planks in her campaign platform, that point to her spoiling for war. I'd expect stuff like wanting to increase military spending, extending selective service, hard shifts in international diplomacy, etc. I genuinely don't get how Trump was/is viewed as a dove next to her, apart from appeasement (well, sucking up really) of Russia. His poking sticks at North Korea and China, fulsome praise for Israeli government policies against Palestinian people, and efforts to undermine the US intelligence services are all surely more likely to drag the US into armed conflict of some kind somewhere.

I've never been an enthusiastic supporter of any presidential candidate, but in the last horse race, the idea that at best Clinton was the "least worst option" was just a heap of manure, given what's unfolded since and the bastard isn't even in the White House yet.

 

[Humberto]

It seems to be received wisdom that "she was a terrible candidate." I don't expect any candidates to be perfect, but I still haven't seen any compelling explanations why she was so much worse than any other candidate put forward by either the GOP or Democrat party say in the past 50 years.

I keep hearing something about her spoiling for a war, from folks both on the right and left, often using similar phrasing (perhaps because they use the same sources, I don't know?) but not seeing any actual evidence either from her track record as a Senator or Secretary of State, or planks in her campaign platform, that point to her spoiling for war. I'd expect stuff like wanting to increase military spending, extending selective service, hard shifts in international diplomacy, etc. I genuinely don't get how Trump was/is viewed as a dove next to her, apart from appeasement (well, sucking up really) of Russia. His poking sticks at North Korea and China, fulsome praise for Israeli government policies against Palestinian people, and efforts to undermine the US intelligence services are all surely more likely to drag the US into armed conflict of some kind somewhere.

I've never been an enthusiastic supporter of any presidential candidate, but in the last horse race, the idea that at best Clinton was the "least worst option" was just a heap of manure, given what's unfolded since and the bastard isn't even in the White House yet.

Appeasement?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The UK is a large-ish European nation

When did the UK become 'large-ish'?

 

[Humberto]

When did the UK become 'large-ish'?

silly post?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

silly post?

Pretty much; that's what this



means.

 

[Yossarian]

When did the UK become 'large-ish'?

Bigger than Denmark or Austria or Switzerland, not quite as big as Germany or France and not in the same league as Russia.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Bigger than Denmark or Austria or Switzerland, not quite as big as Germany or France and not in the same league as Russia.

That's true. I just looked it up. It's also bigger than Iceland and Hungary. I was surprised to learn that Iceland is larger than Hungary.

 

[Humberto]

Pretty much; that's what this



means.

ffs