Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!

[Casually Red]

I suspect that Trump is going to find that you don't fuck with the CIA.

Maybe it's about time somebody did fuck with them .

Donald Trump Plans Revamp of Top U.S. Spy Agency

They'll love these plans I'm sure

 

[ViolentPanda]

I believe that "class" and reducing everything down to "class" is identity politics.

That's because, despite people patiently explaining class to you, you're an eejit on the subject.

 

[krtek a houby]

That's because, despite people patiently explaining class to you, you're an eejit on the subject.

That may be but boiling everything down to class is shutting down debate and essentially "identity politics"

 

[ViolentPanda]

Just like them pesky WMDs, am I riiiight?

View attachment 98216

Except that class isn't an "exclusive political alliance".

 

[krtek a houby]

Except that class isn't an "exclusive political alliance".

Except that it is - the class struggle is - people from a particular social background railing against people from another particular social background.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That may be but boiling everything down to class is shutting down debate and essentially "identity politics"

You clearly see class as reductionism - it isn't. What class is, is something that runs alongside every other social cleavage - "race", sexuality, gender and the rest, and is used in tandem with those cleavages to oppress people who fall under any or all of those cleavages. It's a nexus/gathering point for rallying against oppression, and one that's separate from, and far more successful historically than "identity politics", which pretty much worships at the altar of people's individual oppressions.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Except that it is - the class struggle is - people from a particular social background railing against people from another particular social background.

And the political element is...?

BTW, your explanation of "class struggle" is piss-poor and inaccurate.

 

[krtek a houby]

You clearly see class as reductionism - it isn't. What class is, is something that runs alongside every other social cleavage - "race", sexuality, gender and the rest, and is used in tandem with those cleavages to oppress people who fall under any or all of those cleavages. It's a nexus/gathering point for rallying against oppression, and one that's separate from, and far more successful historically than "identity politics", which pretty much worships at the altar of people's individual oppressions.

"Identity politics" is buzzword used by those who try and muffle individual movements against oppression. You tell someone who's just been told to "fuck off back to Africa" that it's all about class mate and see what response you get.

Of course class oppression exists but not every ill comes down to it.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

This is the violent sexual predator's new facebook cover photo.

 

[Wilf]

Julian Assange to be the next head of the CIA then .?

Has this been posted yet?
Republicans voice disdain after Donald Trump tweets support for Julian Assange
Trump tweeting Assange comments on Russia and Sarah Palin seemingly retracting her 'let's hunt him down' comments. Assange must almost be feeling the warm glow of the sun on his pasty face. But somehow I can't see Chelsea Manning benefitting any time soon.

 

[Casually Red]

If May wants to kiss trumps ass, letting Assange leg it would be the smart move right now.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Maybe it's about time somebody did fuck with them .

Donald Trump Plans Revamp of Top U.S. Spy Agency

They'll love these plans I'm sure

I've seen some of the plan. It's further proof that he thinks he's in a James Bond movie.

 

[ViolentPanda]

"Identity politics" is buzzword used by those who try and muffle individual movements against oppression.

No, "identity politics" is a descriptor of a type of politics which focuses on particularity. It focuses on ethnicity, or gender, or sexuality. What it doesn't do is either seek common ground between those foci, or acknowledge the "cross-membership" of people in one focal point, with other focal points.

You tell someone who's just been told to "fuck off back to Africa" that it's all about class mate and see what response you get.

Of course class oppression exists but not every ill comes down to it.

I'm a Jew. I've been told to fuck off to Israel/a gas chamber/a mass grave more times than I can count. Most of the people doing the name-calling have been bourgeois or petit bourgeois (middle class liberal racism has a long and ignoble history in the west). This is because for them I'm perceived as a double threat - Jewish and working class (if I were female, I'd be a triple threat), just as a black or brown person is a double or triple threat.
This isn't to say that class is the be-all and end-all, but it underscores every other oppression, especially under capitalism. Why? Because the working class are a resource to be used, and to be successfully used, they need to not be a unified class, but a fractured, internally-bickering class.

 

[J Ed]

Of course class oppression exists but not every ill comes down to it.

You and others keep repeating this but who are you talking to exactly? Who has said this?

 

[J Ed]

The Tooze piece is now on the LRB site:

Tooze refers to Streeck's position on Merkel's refugee policy and immigration in this, I had a search to find out if he had written anything substantive on it and found this paper.

 

[teqniq]

 

[maomao]

"Identity politics" is buzzword used by those who try and muffle individual movements against oppression. You tell someone who's just been told to "fuck off back to Africa" that it's all about class mate and see what response you get.

Of course class oppression exists but not every ill comes down to it.

So why are the American police still shooting black people by the dozen when there's been a black president for eight years? No-one here had been discussing class as an identity, that's the kind of nonsense that tells you Alan Sugar is working class. They've been using it to describe the relationship between people and capital. It's not an identity, it's economic fact.

 

[killer b]

I think this has some relevance - an article on Jacobin which talks about the US far right's adaptation and use of identity politics tropes - some eyebrow raising stuff here.

Safety Pins and Swastikas | Jacobin

 

[J Ed]

.

 

[redsquirrel]

I think this has some relevance - an article on Jacobin which talks about the US far right's adaptation and use of identity politics tropes - some eyebrow raising stuff here.

Safety Pins and Swastikas | Jacobin

Butchers posted on the Alt-Right thread, definitely worth a read.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

So why are the American police still shooting black people by the dozen when there's been a black president for eight years? .

Presumably, some black people have been shot in the past eight years because they were involved in the commission of a violent crime and/or presented an imminent and legitimate threat to the life of members of the public or to police officers.

Others presumably have been shot for reasons related to racism. And those types of shootings have continued because the election of a black President didn't mean the magical disappearance of all racism from American society.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Schumer adopts Trump slogan: GOP wants to 'Make America sick again'

Schumer adopts Trump slogan: GOP wants to 'Make America sick again'

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

What a difference a month makes:

Donald J. Trump

✔@realDonaldTrump
I have always had a good relationship with Chuck Schumer. He is far smarter than Harry R and has the ability to get things done. Good news!

6:05 AM - 20 Nov 2016

Donald J. Trump

✔@realDonaldTrump
The Democrats, lead by head clown Chuck Schumer, know how bad ObamaCare is and what a mess they are in. Instead of working to fix it, they..

3:57 AM - 5 Jan 2017

• https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=816977032433270784
  
• 
  9,9739,973 Retweets
  
• 
  37,38237,382 likes

 

[J Ed]

Tell Trump that what the US really needs is Trumpcare, present him a singlepayer package called that and he will go for it.

Trumpcare, it's so great! Let me tell you, you're going to forget what being sick is! You will get so bored of being healthy that you will wish you were sick once in a while! Believe me.

 

[agricola]

Tell Trump that what the US really needs is Trumpcare, present him a singlepayer package called that and he will go for it.

Trumpcare, it's so great! Let me tell you, you're going to forget what being sick is! You will get so bored of being healthy that you will wish you were sick once in a while! Believe me.

To be fair to him, Trump is probably the only GOP Presidential nominee (or at least the only one of any substance) to openly praise a single payer healthcare system in at least the last thirty years.

 

[teqniq]

Tell Trump that what the US really needs is Trumpcare, present him a singlepayer package called that and he will go for it.

Trumpcare, it's so great! Let me tell you, you're going to forget what being sick is! You will get so bored of being healthy that you will wish you were sick once in a while! Believe me.

 

[coley]

I don't know why I'm bothering because it's obvious to anyone with half a brain and even mild socialist politics that you're a moron and as much the enemy as Trump, but there's nothing easy or fuzzy about solidarity. It can be really fucking hard, but it's the only way the working class will obtain the results in it's interests.

It's not "fucking hard" it's "fucking impossible"
And when the 'WC' of America votes in this loon, you might realise why I consider it impossible, when you see the levels of absolute vituperation directed against Brexit voters of any stripe by home owning guardian readers, then you will realise ' its fucking impossible'
I could go on, but frankly I find these days I couldn't give a flying fuck, Blair and Bush have fucked over the world and doing your best for those around you is really the only option open.

 

[coley]

Well fuck the ice cream. Give me the free beer. Even Carling tastes good when it is cold and free.

You take your bottle/can and fuck off straight away, clearly.

No,it bliddy doesn't!

 

[coley]

Plainly these Clinton supporters were also triggered. Doubt there'll be any protests though .

Chicago police hold four over live-streamed attack - BBC News

As usual, you start to make some kind of sense then kick yersel in the knackers.
A bunch of bastards torture and abuse someone with 'special needs' and you try and pigeonhole them into a particular group.
When usually, they are just mindless thugs without a political brain cell amongst themselves.

 

[CRI]

Ugh yes.

The fact that your generally too much of a prick to make specific accusations doesn't mean that you haven't called people racist. You do it all the fucking time

But in addition to that cuntary you made a specific accusation that J Ed was a racist.

An accusation that you never attempted to defend or apologise for.

I'll bite squirrel, but this is the last time, just to set things straight.

Are the "examples" in post 14861536 the best "proof" you can find that I call people racist "all the fucking time?" Christ, that's some amazing straw clutching.

I saw plenty posts in the Brexit forum minimising and rubbishing reports of rising racism and xenophobia after Brexit. There were pages dissecting one Black woman's account, including speculation her description of the abuser's beverage meant she was lying. Some responded to accounts of attacks on Poles with comments about Polish people being racist. Accounts on social media were slated as unreliable, as were any stats. I remember thinking fuck, there's not much to distinguish some posts here from stuff I'd seen coming from the far right about it. Linking this observation to Horseshoe Theory, or ignoring the repeated demands to prove what, when and who said "racist things" is proof I call people racist "all the fucking time?" Like horseshit it is.

Here and elsewhere, there were folks saying working class people voted for Brexit because they felt marginalised and excluded by the elite (or some such). Similarly, Trump appealed to working class voters while Clinton ignored them (and Sanders - the working class favourite) would have trounced Trump at the polls. Very few non-white working class folk voted for Brexit. Very few non-white working class folk voted for Sanders in the primaries or Trump in the presidentials. Whether intentional or not, in discussions like this, "working class" really means "white" and usually means "male," too. Disagree if you want, but my calling it doesn't mean I'm calling individual people here racist. Even if the shoe fits, I'm not forcing it on anyone's foot.

As for J ed, he rubbished one of my posts describing intersections of race, gender, class and other forms of oppression and privilege. He pointed to Trumps pick of a Black man to head Housing & Urban Development and a white woman for Education to show there wasn't institutional racism or sexism. "It's all about class." Right, so how the hell is me observing he doesn't agree with my views on intersectional systemic oppression calling him a racist? I got pissed off with his constant needling about this so put him on mute. Then others showed up to cape for him. Fucksake.

Enough now of the tedious personal pops and goading. Don't like what I post? Block me and move on.