Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!

[Johnny Canuck3]

The most depressing stuff to me was the opposition to obamacare. Why should I pay more so some lazy goodfornothing doesn't die? I get that obamacare has big problems - an actual NHS would be miles better - but the reasons to oppose it are depressing as they are kicking down, blaming those poorer than you, not those richer than you.

As a result of all the election hysteria about Obamacare, I did some further reading about it. It's arguable that the particular system they're employing, has some pretty big flaws.

But the answer is to fix the problems; not scrap the whole concept.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Now I might be a bit naive, but in Australia the individual 'states' who oppose their federal Govt seem to be going their own merry way and showing the federal govt the two fingers, can't the progressive states in the US do the same?

That sort of thing is kind of frowned upon in the US. Last time some of the states tried to show the two fingers to the rest, they ended up having a Civil War.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

As a result of all the election hysteria about Obamacare, I did some further reading about it. It's arguable that the particular system they're employing, has some pretty big flaws.

But the answer is to fix the problems; not scrap the whole concept.

The biggest flaw is that it's not an NHS funded by general taxation, which is in turn collected, in theory at least, according to ability to pay. There are various subsidy schemes, but as I understand it, at its core, an average earner not entitled to subsidies will be paying the same as a millionaire. That's why I said that those kicking down depress me with their outlook. But there is only one way to change that, and that's to involve more income tax in health care funding. Obamacare shies away from that.

It's ironic really that he got so much grief for introducing so-called 'socialised health care' (a term I'd never heard before the obamacare debacle), when he's really not done any such thing.

afaik, every European country has some variant on an income tax-based system, even if it's framed as 'national insurance'. That's socialised health care.

 

[CrabbedOne]

How Canadian! Barely a raised voice. If that was Belfast there'd be added fisticuffs.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

How Canadian! Barely a raised voice. If that was Belfast there'd be added fisticuffs.

I know. There was a minor fenderbender in front of my house the other day. One woman came out her car and went after the other driver, complete with f-bombs and killer fingernails. The cop handcuffed both of them in the back of the cruiser. It got quiet real fast after that.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Something I miss from Prairie radio, is the Farm Report. I used to enjoy hearing the price of Durham Semolina, and about the prevalence of Ergoty.

I'm fond of a show called "Ag Phd." Mostly I just like yelling at the screen about the chemical laden methods they use, all with the corporate sponsorship you'd expect. Some guy might plant corn in the same field for 15 seasons and will ask what to do about his corn bore problem. It never occurs to them to suggest planting something else for while.

 

[CrabbedOne]

Obamacare just doubled down on an existing system run for the benefit of gouging health providers. It got more people insured, mostly poor, some rather expensively sick. The sort of employed relatively comfortable lower middle class folk that voted for Trump in large numbers didn't see much benefit in it for them. Just before the election a lot of their premiums went up in some states which may have swung it. That was pretty much inevitable as you've got more people covered and there very limited cost control. Proposed GOP alternatives generally focus benefits in the mid to higher deciles so really there's an element of zero sum game rational choice.

 

[Treacle Toes]

hahaha! I live in one of the most "progressive" states, and I actually really like where I live. I just can't deal with what's going on in this country. It's seriously affecting my mental health. Everything feels like a lost cause, and it's not just the strictly political stuff either.

Hey lovely...I am listening.

I feel like that even at this distance. I think about what it must be like for you guys in the US and my mind blows. I hope you are finding ways to switch off and stay grounded.

Big hug x

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'm fond of a show called "Ag Phd." Mostly I just like yelling at the screen about the chemical laden methods they use, all with the corporate sponsorship you'd expect. Some guy might plant corn in the same years for 15 seasons and will ask what to do about his corn bore problem. It never occurs to them to suggest planting something else for while.

Makes sense, but if someone has invested in corn harvesting equipment, it might be a big outlay to change over to wheat etc.

Although it's always possible to contract out the harvesting, I suppose.

 

[CRI]

Trump added:



So nothing to see here, just the president-elect of the United States publicly picking a fight on Twitter with a union - got to wonder how long it's going to be before this kind of shit is accepted as the new normal.

Already is pal. President to be picking a fight on Twitter with a private citizen and his goons issuing said citizen with death threats IS the new normal.

Skipping merrily along this path already.

 

[J Ed]

Bit late to start caring about unions

 

[CRI]

CRI any closer to a response on this?

Last time I explain what should be obvious.

It's a good idea to appoint the best qualified and experienced folks to roles with high responsibilities. Traditionally these have gone to white, straight, class privileged blokes because people appointed in their own image. That didn't mean the best people were picked and the system is rigged against those whose face doesn't fit. Appointing well qualified and experienced people who don't fit the stereotype sends the message that quality is more important than tradition and who you know. It begins to shift attitudes. This ain't the same as appointing someone who doesn't fit the stereotype but also isn't qualified or experienced as a "token." Leaders who want to retain the status quo or claw back progress often do this, intentionally setting the person up to fail so they become the fall guy or gal for failures, and prove the rule that women, people of colour, working class people, disabled folks, gay men, etc. are crap so better stick with "what we know works."

To be fair, all Trump's appointees are a shower of shit, and that's intentional on his part. Don't think it's an accident he put the Black guy at the head of HUD or the woman at the head of education. They'll fail miserably and be some of the first to be gone.

I'm not getting why you are needling about this, other than perhaps you believe that say there's a Black guy in management means there can never be any valid claims of racism cause that diversity box is tick. If so, well, no fucking clue mate.

 

[redsquirrel]

I'm not getting why you are needling about this, other than perhaps you believe that say there's a Black guy in management means there can never be any valid claims of racism cause that diversity box is tick. If so, well, no fucking clue mate.

So you are moving back from your previous position that J Ed doesn't believe in institutional discrimination? (Though there's still that snide insinuation in the above).

Hey, but I seem to recall you don't believe institutional discrimination exists, except against white working class men, so naw, I can't be arsed to explain the thing about how being experienced and qualified and being from a minority group aren't mutually exclusive.

Why can't you just apologise and admit that you made a totally unfounded very nasty smear.

 

[CRI]

So you are moving back from your previous position that J Ed doesn't believe in institutional discrimination? (Though there's still that snide insinuation in the above).

Why can't you just apologise and admit that you made a totally unfounded very nasty smear.

Look, I don't get what he/she wants and am getting fed up with the constant needling. So, for the sake of my blood pressure, I'll just block or whatever it's called here. Happy? Cool.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Watching a Netflix series called 'Oliver Stone - The Untold History of the United States.' It made me think of the uproar created by Trump including Bannon and his alt-right views in the White House inner circle; and of the past history of the connection between race and racism, and the White House.

For instance, a quote from future President Harry Truman, in his younger days, writing to his wife-to-be:

I think one man is just as good as another so long as he's honest and decent and not a nigger or a Chinaman. Uncle Wills says that the Lord made a white man from dust, a nigger from mud, and then threw what was left and it came down a Chinaman. He does hate Chinese and Japs. So do I. It is race prejudice I guess. But I am strongly of the opinion that negroes ought to be in Arica, yellow men in Asia, and white men in Europe and America.

Letter from Harry S. Truman to Bess Wallace, June 22, 1911. Truman Papers - Family, Business, and Personal Affairs Papers.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Other American Presidents, other comments on race:

A perfectly stupid race can never rise to a very high plane; the negro for instance, has been kept down as much by a lack of intellectual development as much as anything else.” Theodore Roosevelt

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

“Negroes are excited by a freedom they don’t understand and are not equipped to handle the demands and privileges of citizenship.” -Woodrow Wilson

In 1912 Woodrow Wilson, the Democratic candidate for president, promised fairness and justice for blacks if elected. In a letter to a black church official, Wilson wrote, "Should I become President of the United States they may count upon me for absolute fair dealing for everything by which I could assist in advancing their interests of the race." But after the election, Wilson changed his tune. He dismissed 15 out of 17 black supervisors who had been previously appointed to federal jobs and replaced them with whites.

He also refused to appoint black ambassadors to Haiti and Santa Domingo, posts traditionally awarded to African Americans. Two of Wilson's cabinet ministers, Postmaster General Albert Burelson and Treasury Secretary William McAdoo, both Southerners, issued orders segregating their departments. Throughout the country, blacks were segregated or dismissed from federal positions. In Georgia, the head of the Internal Revenue division fired all black employees: "There are no government positions for Negroes in the South. A Negro's place in the corn field." He said.

The President's wife, Ellen Wilson, was said to have had a hand in segregating employees in Washington, encouraging department chiefs to assign blacks separate working, eating, and toilet facilities. To justify segregation, officials publicized complaints by white women, who were thought to be threatened by black men's sexuality and disease.

The Rise and Fall of Jim Crow . Jim Crow Stories . Segregation in the U. S. Government | PBS

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Harry Truman, referring to a street in Kansas:

“I went nigger chasing on Monday. Right through Central Africa: Vine St. There was no trace of that Nelson nigger.” -Harry Truman

More than 25 years later, Truman, then a U.S. senator from Missouri, wrote a letter to his daughter describing waiters at The White House as "an army of coons." In a letter to his wife in 1939 he referred to "nigger picnic day."

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

“I’ll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years.” -Lyndon Johnson

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

“African Americans watch the same news at night that ordinary Americans do.” -Bill Clinton

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Maybe not racist[maybe], but definitely stupid:

“Do you have blacks too?” -George W. Bush to the president of Brazil

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The point of all this is that racism and ignorance have a long pedigree in the White House. Race is a big deal in the USA - starting at the top, and going down from there.

 

[J Ed]

Look, I don't get what he/she wants and am getting fed up with the constant needling. So, for the sake of my blood pressure, I'll just block or whatever it's called here. Happy? Cool.

 

[Miss Caphat]

Hey lovely...I am listening.

I feel like that even at this distance. I think about what it must be like for you guys in the US and my mind blows. I hope you are finding ways to switch off and stay grounded.

Big hug x

Thank you sweet Rutita1

I suppose I am lucky because I have a lot to distract me currently. But it does feel very surreal and scary, even while surrounded by like-minded people who are just as appalled and who feel just as helpless.

 

[maomao]

Look, I don't get what he/she wants and am getting fed up with the constant needling. So, for the sake of my blood pressure, I'll just block or whatever it's called here. Happy? Cool.

I wouldn't have thought so. You made a very specific accusation that another poster holds a particular racist position. You should either retract it or explain it.

 

[J Ed]

This ain't the same as appointing someone who doesn't fit the stereotype but also isn't qualified or experienced as a "token."

Isn't this a bit.. you know.. ?

 

[redsquirrel]

Look, I don't get what he/she wants and am getting fed up with the constant needling. So, for the sake of my blood pressure, I'll just block or whatever it's called here. Happy? Cool.

No, as Maomao says you've made serious specific accusation that J Ed doesn't believe in institutional racism. You should either back that accusation up or retract it and apologise, this is hardly rocket science.

 

[Miss Caphat]

The point of all this is that racism and ignorance have a long pedigree in the White House. Race is a big deal in the USA - starting at the top, and going down from there.

It is indeed. but what I think is unusual is that I don't think Trump is even spectacularly racist, personally. I think he's an equal-opportunity bully who will play any card in his hand against whoever he sees as his opponent. I think it's quite telling that he is among the few presidents in this century who has not had a heard-in-private racist quote attributed to him (Clinton had some awful ones - ugh)

The things he's said, against women, against minorities, against disabled people, etc., have all generally been quite public (other than the pussy-grabbing quote which again was about his own ego, wanting to impress the guys he was with, despite the fact that his quote doesn't even make sense)

I think Trump has made it quite clear that the people he goes after are people he feels have slighted him personally, or those he thinks he can get his supporters to rally with him against.

He's too self-absorbed to find the energy to actively, continuously hate anyone unless it's someone who has spoken ill of him or who might harm his brand. And then once he feels satisfied that he's gotten the better of them, he forgets all about it. It's very telling that so many people - Megyn Kelly, Al Gore, Obama, Enrique Peña Nieto, etc, all once sworn enemies of his whom he pursued with violent vitriol, all come out of brief meetings with him looking slightly bemused and beside themselves, ready to work with / negotiate with him, or at least willing to forgive a little. I think this speaks to the fact that he really doesn't believe the things he is saying at the time. If you are willing to do business with him, he is willing to make you feel like the king of the world (this is true narcissistic personality disorder behavior)

The fact that he doesn't really mean it - all of the nasty things he says - doesn't make him any less dangerous - in fact it makes him more so. He is the epitome of a schoolyard bully who will find the (perceived) weak spot in anyone without a second thought to the repercussions of that bullying - that others with less power than him will continue the chants and harassment of his victims long after he's forgotten what he even said - that he will have so many followers emulate his style and cruelty because they saw it "work" for him.

It's also a form of "negging." He talks trash about someone who never would have given him a second thought otherwise, then he gets on their radar, and then he gets to win them over by suddenly showing them a little bit of decency / kindness.

 

[Yossarian]

It is indeed. but what I think is unusual is that I don't think Trump is even spectacularly racist, personally. I think he's an equal-opportunity bully who will play any card in his hand against whoever he sees as his opponent. I think it's quite telling that he is among the few presidents in this century who has not had a heard-in-private racist quote attributed to him

"Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes… Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else…Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that’s guy’s lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks." - Donald Trump, as quoted in a 1991 book by a former Trump casino boss. Asked about the book a few years later, Trump said it was "probably true>"

 

[J Ed]

"Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes… Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else…Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that’s guy’s lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks." - Donald Trump, as quoted in a 1991 book by a former Trump casino boss. Asked about the book a few years later, Trump said it was "probably true>"

Yes, there is also the Central Park Five stuff.