Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!

[little_legs]

I know this is from the shitty CNN but it's worth a listen:

 

[CRI]

I'm not sure just asking them would be enough to convince the evangelicals, you'd need to promise things like banning abortions.

Totally agree that Clinton as candidate and with her arrogance lost it for her, but what does that make the figures if 25+% of the electorate vote are going to against you?

But . . . .

Latest 2016 Popular Vote Election Results: Clinton Leads Trump By 2.6 Million, Margin Grows As Votes Continue To Be Counted

True, Trump won enough Electoral College votes to be elected president, but he most definitely didn't win the popular vote. Even if you ignore evidence of voter suppression, possible electoral fraud and investigations into Russian hacking, Clinton still won the popular vote by a hefty margin. I don't get this false but widely accepted claim that most voters turned their back on her for this reason or that reason. Uh, the majority of voters VOTED for her.

However . . .

Nearly a third of Republicans think Donald Trump won the popular vote
According to a Pew Research survey, 32 percent of Republicans do not know that Hillary Clinton earned more votes.

I don't know if Democrats, including the "Bernie Bros" are as ignorant as Republicans, or if they, too, believe truth is "whatever you want it to be," these days.

 

[CRI]

This is what happens when Donald Trump attacks a private citizen on Twitter

About a year ago, 18-year-old college student Lauren Batchelder stood up at a political forum in New Hampshire and told Donald Trump that she didn’t think he was “a friend to women.”

The next morning, Trump fired back on Twitter — calling Batchelder an “arrogant young woman” and accusing her of being a “plant” from a rival campaign. Her phone began ringing with callers leaving threatening messages that were often sexual in nature. Her Facebook and email inboxes filled with similar messages. As her addresses circulated on social media and her photo flashed on the news, she fled home to hide.

“I didn’t really know what anyone was going to do,” said Batchelder, now 19, who has never discussed her experience with a reporter until now. “He was only going to tweet about it and that was it, but I didn’t really know what his supporters were going to do, and that to me was the scariest part.”

 

[Treacle Toes]

I know this is from the shitty CNN but it's worth a listen:

' We would have rather vote for anybody instead of her....all the other stuff that Donald said didn't seem to make a hill of beans, she hurt us and that's what it is...'

 

[Treacle Toes]

Trumptv though?

 

[two sheds]

In a sense I don't think the actual statistics matter that much, it isn't as if we can falsify a campaign in which Clinton did campaign well with Evangelicals, given the narrowness of the Trump win though it is something worth pondering. It's just symptomatic of a wider arrogance and incompetence.

It's one facet of an incompetent campaign that failed to ask for votes from anyone, other than 'moderate' posh Republicans, a small number of people who voted Trump anyway, really.

Take for example how Obama campaigned in 2008 and 2012. This is an example of campaign literature coordinated with the AFL-CIO which was intended to appeal to white working-class voters. It looks a bit crude in a way but at least it shows that someone is at least pretending to care. Three big messages - Obama is going to protect your gun, your jobs and your union. Ignore for a minute that the Obama administration failed to deliver on the latter two to a great extent and concentrate on the politics of it all. It is unsaid in the poster but there is also an implicit assumption that Obama is for, amongst other workers, workers who are white - and why not? Most of the US working-class still is white, so if you are targeting different groups of voters with campaign material then it makes sense to do that.

Clinton failed to do any of this, on the assumption that the votes of Hispanic people, women and black voters, the rich meant that she no longer needed the votes of working-class whites. The problem was that the Clinton campaign outreach to those groups was very bad too.

I can't argue with anything except the first clause

In a sense I don't think the actual statistics matter that much

I think they are exactly what matter. I seem to remember some persuasive figures earlier in the thread that back up what you and butchers are saying. (I can't exactly remember what that was because i'm not sure whether I mentioned it but I've been at the vodka )

I do also however find quite persuasive the idea that rural white americans feel that their way of life is under threat and that was a significant (we have 20% so far) factor.

And agreed that, as I recall that nice mr Chomsky remarks, that Republicans are established business like oil companies, democrats are new business like electronics.

Would have loved to see how Bernie would have done just for the "lolz".

 

[J Ed]

I know this is from the shitty CNN but it's worth a listen:

Really interesting interview, hopefully it will be insightful for some on here. Worth remembering that for every 2008, 2012 Obama voter like this there will be many more who simply just did not turn out for Clinton but didn't vote for Trump either.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Ahem...

 

[Treacle Toes]

little_legs thanks for linking to that CNN 'The Messy Truth' series... I am going down the rabbit hole with is as I have an interest in hearing regional voices.

 

[CRI]

Ahem...

I'm sure 80% of the people I grew up with, went to school with, neighbours of my family still, spout the same horseshit as these folks. Although I know it, I don't want to think about it. Seeing this actually made me feel quite sick.

Different accents though, and where I come from, they'd never let a black guy in their house.

 

[CRI]

Trump team letter sparks 'witch hunt' fears at Energy Department

Updated 12/09/16 03:26 PM EST

President-elect Donald Trump's transition team has asked the Energy Department to identify the employees who have worked on climate change, raising fears the incoming administration is planning an ideological "witch hunt" at the agency.

The move is the latest sign that Trump intends to undo President Barack Obama's environmental legacy. The incoming Republican has been a vocal critic of efforts to combat climate change, deriding it as a hoax, and he plans to nominate one of the nation's biggest critics of Obama's regulations — Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt — to lead his Environmental Protection Agency.

Coupled with calls by congressional Republicans to relax civil-service protections so that it’s easier to fire federal employees, the transition team’s demand that the Energy Department name names has some current and former workers fearing the worst.

 

[CRI]

Hmmmm

 

[ska invita]

According to this (reported widely/reuters/washington post) Trump is expected to take daily intelligence briefings - but in the last month he's only taken 4. "President-elect Donald Trump is receiving an average of one presidential intelligence briefing a week, according to U.S. officials "

Thats pretty mind boggling...he really doesnt give a shit!
I guess he's planning to let someone else take care of all his work, and fill him in if something important crops up.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

.

 

[Humberto]

I live in a city whose urban area abuts the American border, in a country that has been inundated by American media for most of this country's existence; yet when I visit the US, which I have done many times - the pervasiveness, the subtlety, the nuance, of racism that continues in the United States, makes my head spin; it bewilders me, it sickens me, it depresses me. Yes, there is racism in Canada, of course; but nothing prepares one for the experience of being a black person in the United States.

I agree about understanding class in the UK. As an outsider, of course I'm aware of the existence of class divisions there; but the 15 years spent on these boards have shown me that I really don't have any real understanding of it, and will never understand it in the visceral way that UK residents do.

John you are right, the fuckwits can be dissolved in whatever manner they choose, solidarity to you from the UK. For what its worth. We are with you mate.

 

[andysays]

Glad to hear that. In real life, I've found people tend to scratch their heads, convinced I'm exaggerating. On this board, most seem to still be insisting Trump "won" because Democrats and Clinton in particular didn't listen enough to disaffected, white working class men who felt forced to support Trump because the Democrats didn't back Bernie.

And you still seem to be denying that Trump actually won the election.

Good luck with that...

 

[TomUS]

Trump team letter sparks 'witch hunt' fears at Energy Department

Updated 12/09/16 03:26 PM EST

President-elect Donald Trump's transition team has asked the Energy Department to identify the employees who have worked on climate change, raising fears the incoming administration is planning an ideological "witch hunt" at the agency.

The move is the latest sign that Trump intends to undo President Barack Obama's environmental legacy. The incoming Republican has been a vocal critic of efforts to combat climate change, deriding it as a hoax, and he plans to nominate one of the nation's biggest critics of Obama's regulations — Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt — to lead his Environmental Protection Agency.

Coupled with calls by congressional Republicans to relax civil-service protections so that it’s easier to fire federal employees, the transition team’s demand that the Energy Department name names has some current and former workers fearing the worst.

And on top of that, the "I want the oil" president elect's pick for Sec of State may be......

Rex W. Tillerson, the president and chief executive of Exxon Mobil, is the leading candidate to be Mr. Trump’s secretary of state, according to a person with direct knowledge of the search process.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/politics/donald-trump-transition.html

 

[kabbes]

I know this is from the shitty CNN but it's worth a listen:

Interesting. An eloquent explanation from the family as to why they voted as they did.

I'm also impressed that they get given such a platform to explain in full how they feel without coming under fire, skepticism or belittlement from the host. I'm not sure working class people in this country get the same treatment by the news (or any other) media.

 

[J Ed]

Interesting. An eloquent explanation from the family as to why they voted as they did.

I'm also impressed that they get given such a platform to explain in full how they feel without coming under fire, skepticism or belittlement from the host. I'm not sure working class people in this country get the same treatment by the news (or any other) media.

Van Jones isn't great, he's an ex-leftist-turned-neoliberal social climber but I agree with you that his approach here was good.

 

[squirrelp]

According to this (reported widely/reuters/washington post) Trump is expected to take daily intelligence briefings - but in the last month he's only taken 4. "President-elect Donald Trump is receiving an average of one presidential intelligence briefing a week, according to U.S. officials "

Thats pretty mind boggling...he really doesnt give a shit!
I guess he's planning to let someone else take care of all his work, and fill him in if something important crops up.

to be fair, the CIA, FBI and NSA are not reputable organisations.

If they brief you that the sun is shining you should look out through the window.

He is also not yet president!

 

[TomUS]

to be fair, the CIA, FBI and NSA are not reputable organisations.

If they brief you that the sun is shining you should look out through the window.

He is also not yet president!

But he will be soon & should know what's going on. He's just a lazy asshole more concerned with his "thank you tour" & managing his business empire. And I think those intelligence orgs are very reputable when it comes to briefing the pres.

 

[J Ed]

But he will be soon & should know what's going on. He's just a lazy asshole more concerned with his "thank you tour" & managing his business empire. And I think those intelligence orgs are very reputable when it comes to briefing the pres.

I wonder how much a lot of Americans find this particular approach a bit endearing. Thinking about it, basking in adulation and lazily shirking responsibilities is what would appeal to me...

 

[butchersapron]

According to this (reported widely/reuters/washington post) Trump is expected to take daily intelligence briefings - but in the last month he's only taken 4. "President-elect Donald Trump is receiving an average of one presidential intelligence briefing a week, according to U.S. officials "

Thats pretty mind boggling...he really doesnt give a shit!
I guess he's planning to let someone else take care of all his work, and fill him in if something important crops up.

Odd choice of language "is receiving". Your "taken"and "take" as well.

 

[ska invita]

.......... a question posed by Johnny Cancuck 3 on another thread has still not been answered:
"what do you say about people who rightfully crave change in an unequal and unfair system - but who choose for their savior a billionaire born with a silver spoon in his mouth, who shits in a golden toilet in a Manhattan highrise with his name emblazoned across the top, who hides his taxes and who is indebted to foreign banks to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars?"

I think ive got a partial answer to this - read someone else saying this, and it makes sense...to many in America Trump is working class
Hilary Clinton would be seen as part of the equivalent of a UK aristocracy, whereas Trump is just doing what all Americans should be doing: working hard and doing his best to get rich - thats what life is, afterall, about.. When he says his not paying taxes is because hes smart, it feeds into that idea of a "worker", working hard to earn as much as possible for himself and his family - the fact he's as rich as he is just means that he's a really good worker (by this logic).

If youve worked hard and become rich you are free to have a gold plated toilet - thats the american dream. People dont judge that in the way they might in the UK, where there are a different set of social mores about how to act when youre loaded (though these are increasingly crumbling)

And this kind of feeds into this to some extent, and maybe makes him feel more like a normal person rather than a career politician:

I wonder how much a lot of Americans find this particular approach a bit endearing. Thinking about it, basking in adulation and lazily shirking responsibilities is what would appeal to me...

Odd choice of language "is receiving". Your "taken"and "take" as well.

From what it seems the practice is about being given papers to read - receiving them, or not.

 

[krtek a houby]

So it was rigged after all Russia 'intervened to promote Trump' - US intelligence - BBC News

 

[J Ed]

So it was rigged after all Russia 'intervened to promote Trump' - US intelligence - BBC News

Perhaps it was coordinated from a bunker with all those Iraqi WMDs

 

[krtek a houby]

Perhaps it was coordinated from a bunker with all those Iraqi WMDs

Perhaps. Perhaps Putin's administration is an enlightened, benign force for good.

 

[J Ed]

Perhaps. Perhaps Putin's administration is an enlightened, benign force for good.

Pretty sure that you can mistrust the veracity of anonymous CIA leaks and hold the view that Putin's Russia is a kleptocracy at the same time.

 

[kabbes]

So it was rigged after all Russia 'intervened to promote Trump' - US intelligence - BBC News

How is promoting your preferred candidate the same thing as "rigging" an election?

 

[J Ed]

How is promoting your preferred candidate the same thing as "rigging" an election?

...and let's not forget that from the Podesta e-mails we know that the Clinton camp promoted Trump (along with Cruz and Carson) as much as possible during the Republican primaries, and actually did outright rig the Democratic primaries against Sanders.

This of course is before we get to every instance in which the US state has manipulated elections in other countries. There is so much smug righteousness and hypocrisy in all of this.