Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!

[agricola]

Another possibility is that the general view of Americans held on these boards for years, was at least partly right about a largish percentage of their population: and those Americans voted for a demagogue who pushed the politics of fear and division, and who scapegoated immigrants and minorities.

Which would be mental, if only the other candidate wasn't going around proposing things like getting into a shooting war with the Russians.

 

[CRI]

If you were an American citizen, there would be bits of the country you and your missus would know to avoid. And those places, after some decades of slowly getting better, are likely to be suddenly getting a whole lot worse, due in large part to the kind of people who believed the Obama birther bullshit.

Absolutely why I will never, ever return to where I was born.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It's almost like in both cases the image you had was just a simplistic caricature of reality. weird.

Or, alternatively, the images held by a small group of British internet-goers about the US has in either case proven to be an over-simplistic view that goes wide of the mark.

It's difficult to get a real feel for a country, when reading about it on the internet from a different continent.

It's the same as Americans and Canadians commenting on British society etc. Yes, we can have opinions, but the knowledge base we possess about British life will of necessity be vastly less than that possessed by British people. British people will have a much better feel for what is happening in Britain, than we will.

 

[krtek a houby]

This conversation is kind of interesting to me.

Over my many years here, I've watched the characterization of the American public as a bunch of gun-toting racists who don't own passports and who generally have no clue about the rest of the world.

Now, since this election, they've somehow transmogrified into intelligent, well-informed working class people with a strong interest in advancing their lot in the Class War.

Isn't it?

As much as I adore the banter and love on this site (not a joke); it always got on my nerves the endless dissing of the Americans being seen as stupid etc.

But suddenly; they aren't - thank feck for that. Apart from the Americans who fight against racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia etc - now it's clear - these are the real enemy.

But they can't possibly be liberals, they absolutely have to be disenfranchised white folks. Who could never be liberal. Or are they?

Instead of divisive bollocks; can we not just see that the rise of the right is down to ignorance - from all walks of life - seduced by Trump bullshit?

 

[J Ed]

Or, alternatively, the images held by a small group of British internet-goers about the US has in either case proven to be an over-simplistic view that goes wide of the mark.

It's difficult to get a real feel for a country, when reading about it on the internet from a different continent.

It's the same as Americans and Canadians commenting on British society etc. Yes, we can have opinions, but the knowledge base we possess about British life will of necessity be vastly less than that possessed by British people. British people will have a much better feel for what is happening in Britain, than we will.

Eh, I'm fairly confident that a lot of bright Americans who have never stepped foot in Britain have a firmer grasp of the dynamics of British society than say your average Guardian columnist.

 

[J Ed]

Isn't it?

As much as I adore the banter and love on this site (not a joke); it always got on my nerves the endless dissing of the Americans being seen as stupid etc.

But suddenly; they aren't - thank feck for that. Apart from the Americans who fight against racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia etc - now it's clear - these are the real enemy.

But they can't possibly be liberals, they absolutely have to be disenfranchised white folks. Who could never be liberal. Or are they?

Instead of divisive bollocks; can we not just see that the rise of the right is down to ignorance - from all walks of life - seduced by Trump bullshit?

What on earth is this about

 

[krtek a houby]

What on earth is this about

It's part of the discussion. Tangents and all.

 

[snadge]

It's part of the discussion. Tangents and all.

Facepalms.

 

[CRI]

Majority of black voters under 30 voted for Sanders.

You are talking exit poll results from African Americans under 30 registered as Democrats who voted in the 25 US states that hold primaries. Yes, 52% of them favoured Sanders over Clinton - so hardly resounding support. Among 30-44 year olds, it was 70% for Clinton, 45 - 60 it was 85% , over 60s was 89%.

Plenty folks vote in the elections that don't vote in the primaries btw.

 

[CRI]

Eh, I'm fairly confident that a lot of bright Americans who have never stepped foot in Britain have a firmer grasp of the dynamics of British society than say your average Guardian columnist.

Seriously? Uh no. Trust me on that one.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

One feeling I've gotten reading posts here, is that while British readers certainly recognize the existence of racism in the US, it is hard for them to grasp the astonishing, stultifying pervasiveness of it in that country.

Imo it's a truth that's hard to believe for people who don't come from a country with a long slaveholding past that existed until approx. 150 years ago.

Also, with things happening like Obama's election, it tends to lull people into a sense that things are good.

They are better; but they are far from good.

 

[brogdale]

(neo) fascist, or not, given that we now have it confirmed that Trump's chief strategist has already made overtures towards the FN, I thought it might be useful to (re?)consider the degree of position/'policy' overlap that exists between Trump's nascent administration and Le Pen's FN.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Or, alternatively, the images held by a small group of British internet-goers about the US has in either case proven to be an over-simplistic view that goes wide of the mark.

It's difficult to get a real feel for a country, when reading about it on the internet from a different continent.

It's the same as Americans and Canadians commenting on British society etc. Yes, we can have opinions, but the knowledge base we possess about British life will of necessity be vastly less than that possessed by British people. British people will have a much better feel for what is happening in Britain, than we will.

Nobody here ever thought all Americans were a bunch of gun-toting racists who don't own passports and who generally have no clue about the rest of the world.

Nobody now thinks they are all intelligent, well-informed working class people with a strong interest in advancing their lot in the Class War. Nobody thinks a vote for Trump demonstrates any of these qualities.

Youre either incredibly dishonest or struggle with basic comprehension. I don't believe you struggle with the English language so that only leaves one possibility.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Nobody here ever thought all Americans were a bunch of gun-toting racists who don't own passports and who generally have no clue about the rest of the world.

Nobody now thinks they are all intelligent, well-informed working class people with a strong interest in advancing their lot in the Class War. Nobody thinks a vote for Trump demonstrates any of these qualities.

Youre either incredibly dishonest or struggle with basic comprehension. I don't believe you struggle with the English language so that only leaves one possibility.

I'm just giving my opinion.

If what you desire is a return to the old cycle of namecalling, I'm not interested in participating.

 

[CRI]

Miss Ann’s Revenge
With 53 percent of white women ages 45 to 64 voting for Donald Trump, was it a deliberate act meant to put blacks in their place?

When I said up thread that despite Trump's consistent and ghastly displays of misogyny, white women chose loyalty to race over loyalty to gender in voting for Trump. This article explains some of that context very well.

Preservation of white women's "purity" has been used as a justification for racist action from lynching to policy on refugees - not just by racist male leaders, but sadly, by many white feminists

 

[brogdale]

The piece of shit sure can troll...

 

[J Ed]

The piece of shit sure can troll...

Is Breitbart trying to export the revolution?

 

[brogdale]

Is Breitbart trying to export the revolution?

Special sort of relationship.

 

[redsquirrel]

I have never pushed either.

Neither have most posters. There were a few anti-american nutters (fela fan for instance) but the claim that most posters in P&P wrote off whole swathes of the US population as racist gun-toting rednecks is rubbish.

Not sure that it's a total rejection of the class analysis, at least on my part, but more a belief that what's going on in the US is more nuanced.

Arguably, racism is a tool used by elites to damage the solidarity of the working class, which would gain immeasurably in power if white workers and minority workers/workers of color could come to realize that they have so much in common.

As is this attempt of JC3s to cast himself as some sort of supporter of class based politics rather than someone who's been opposed to such politics for the whole 14 years I've been on U75.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I've found that my politics have changed as I've gotten older. It seems that personal experience along with reading, and watching world events, have had that effect on me.

 

[redsquirrel]

So you are a socialist now are you?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I don't know what I am. I do believe that labels are an unnecessary restriction, especially when many people disagree on the definitions of the various labels.

I believe that a societal elite has enriched itself off the backs of working people, and that working people are kept in check by the agents of the elites, and by self delusion created by the mythology that they too can become a member of the elite, with enough hard work.

I believe that what our government does, in its current iteration, is facilitate the activities of those who accumulate capital, and exercise social control over those who don't.

I believe that the game is rigged; but I don't believe that Donald Trump is the solution to the problems of working people.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I'm just giving my opinion.

If what you desire is a return to the old cycle of namecalling, I'm not interested in participating.

It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact. I have no idea why you keep misrepresenting what is being said - it's far more damaging to constructive discussion than name calling, which I haven't done and don't intend to.

 

[two sheds]

I think Johnny was using a fair bit of irony there.

 

[teqniq]

 

[roryer]

Wow. you're an actual green twat.

Thanks, this has been a feature of the last 10 months, where those who follow the mainstream establishment 'liberal' messages feel the need to insult and bully others into agreeing with them. Although I don't want to falsely label you as a globalist neo-liberal elitist, your comments while insulting, are so vague I have no idea what you believe. Are you dismissing me as a Green because you support UKIP?

 

[8den]

Or, 8den could just wear a "Free Mumia" t-shirt. That always get the right riled up.

Discovered this weekend, hes been engaging in a massive trolling of all his mates on social media. Cunt. Family of Cunts I married into, because years ago I ended up staying in a hotel after a blazing row with his mum over MMR in which it later turned out she was trying to get a rise out of me.

 

[emanymton]

Thanks, this has been a feature of the last 10 months, where those who follow the mainstream establishment 'liberal' messages feel the need to insult and bully others into agreeing with them. Although I don't want to falsely label you as a globalist neo-liberal elitist, your comments while insulting, are so vague I have no idea what you believe. Are you dismissing me as a Green because you support UKIP?

There are a lot of arguments and opposing views on this thread. But I think everyone can agree this poster is a massive fucking bellend.

 

[extra dry]

OBAMA TO GIVE TRUMP REMEDIAL CRASH COURSE IN RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT
Apparently, Trump didn’t realize how much work was involved.

I think he thought it is like the movies/being a company C.O, sitting around a table giving orders to minions.

 

[DaveCinzano]

sitting around a table giving orders to minions

Because being POTUS involves a lot of hands-on, blue collar graft, does it?