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Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!

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Another 50 pages of crap...

...a fitting tribute to the president elect :D

It's all so very surreal. Like a sickening nightmare that you cant wake up from.

I just hope they hide the "red button" from him cos he's probably the kind of fruitloop who wont be able to stop himself from pushing it. ... just because it's there and he has a finger....
(Joking mostly... but nervously suspecting it's probably freakin' true)
 
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Shit is hitting the fan pretty quickly, an American friend just told me that 5 people were killed last night in Seattle during protests. I can't find a link because I'm in China and my VPN mysteriously stopped working as the election results came through, (guess the top dogs in China are nervous) and Baidu is terrible for news. Is this just a rumour? Has anyone heard anything more detailed?
 
Shit is hitting the fan pretty quickly, an American friend just told me that 5 people were killed last night in Seattle during protests. I can't find a link because I'm in China and my VPN mysteriously stopped working as the election results came through, (guess the top dogs in China are nervous) and Baidu is terrible for news. Is this just a rumour? Has anyone heard anything more detailed?

Five injured, nobody killed in a downtown shooting that was unrelated to the nearby protest, according to the Seattle Times.

Five people were shot outside a convenience store in downtown Seattle Wednesday night, and the shooter remained at large, police said.

Gunshots were reported shortly before 7 p.m. outside the 7-Eleven store on Third Avenue between Pike and Pine streets, near a major bus stop.

Witnesses said some people were arguing when the gunman began to walk away, and then turned around and fired into the crowd. At least one victim likely was a bystander, Seattle police Assistant Chief Robert Merner said.

5 shot in downtown Seattle at busy intersection
 
Shit is hitting the fan pretty quickly, an American friend just told me that 5 people were killed last night in Seattle during protests. I can't find a link because I'm in China and my VPN mysteriously stopped working as the election results came through, (guess the top dogs in China are nervous) and Baidu is terrible for news. Is this just a rumour? Has anyone heard anything more detailed?

Just reading the news. 5 shot following an argument. However the police have apparently / reportedly claimed it is unrelated to the anti-Trump protests and that it was not in the same locality.
Not that that makes an iota of difference to the unfortunate victims.

5 wounded, 1 critically, in downtown Seattle shooting
 
I think what we've seen in America is a working class revolt with mainly white voters rallying against the establishment. These people are the same type of "left behind" voters in forgotten deindustrialised towns and cities who voted Brexit in Britain. They've simply had enough of the same old politicians promising change and not delivering. In Donald Trump, they saw a man who was offering change and the chance to "make America great again", rather like Nigel Farage and other politicians advocating Brexit.

The pattern that emerges is that these people want a chance of hope and change. Take the last two US Elections, Obama painted himself as a change candidate who could unite America as the first black president, while Trump and those advocating Brexit have attempted to deliver similar pledges. This was a lot harder for Clinton and those politicians campaigning for Remain in the EU referendum, as they were trying to sell the status quo to people (more of the same) which sounds a lot less attractive, not helped by the fact they were very much 'establishment' politicians. The reality is that the old economic consensus is now defunct and mainstream politicians on the centre-left and centre-right need to deliver a coherent message to these angry voters to try and win them back. Until something is done about this disconnect, we will continue to see the rise of populist right politicians such as Trump in America, Farage in Britain and Le Pen in France.

So in the context of this, I totally understand the alienation that people feel which has prompted them to vote for Brexit or Trump. However, this is where my own and these voters' paths cross. The reality is Trump is no "man of the people" or change candidate for that matter. Take the fact that Trump has a background as a property billionaire, the type of person who contributed towards the financial crash of 2008 which has hit the very same people he purports to represent very hard financially. He has also earnt mega bucks and not paid certain taxes for decades, while he also favours cutting the top rate of tax for the richest in society. I also fear his 'protectionist' trade policies could also hit the American economy. So I fear that people voting for Trump in the hope of change may very well end up disappointed.

But I guess we have to accept that a majority of American people have voted for Trump to be president, so whether we like it or not, Britain has to respect this decision and try and work with Trump. They remain a crucial trading and political ally to us. On a slightly happier tone to end my post, I seriously doubt that Trump's most ridiculous policies will ever see light of day. Legislation still needs to pass through the Senate and House of Reps, full of Republicans that are weary of him.


the majority of Trump voters make between $100,000 and $250,000 + just saying.
 
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Seems he got fewer votes than Romney but Clinton got about six million fewer votes than Obama. Would support the idea of her as a problematic candidate even considering misogyny and vote suppression.
 
Yes, the people who always vote Republican. They were only able to win because poorer voters who had previously voted for Obama or not voted at all chose to vote with those stalwart Republicans.

whatever the case, I'm really fed up with hearing that people with far more advantages than me or most people I know being labelled as impoverished or disenfranchised.
 
Seems he got fewer votes than Romney but Clinton got about six million fewer votes than Obama. Would support the idea of her as a problematic candidate even considering misogyny and vote suppression.

Again, I really urge everyone to read a bit of what Doug Henwood has been writing for years about Hillary Clinton. The writing has been on the wall for a long time, if she had beaten Trump this year she would have lost even worse in 2020.
 
Seems he got fewer votes than Romney but Clinton got about six million fewer votes than Obama. Would support the idea of her as a problematic candidate even considering misogyny and vote suppression.


well, sure, she was a problematic candidate, no doubt. but guess what, you STAY HOME or vote for a 3rd party candidate if you feel like one candidate is "problematic" and another is Hitler in spray-tan
 
my point is, stop blaming Clinton, or liberals/everyone and anyone for this travesty. it is the fault of the people who voted for him, and no one else.
We've learned the DNC maneuvered her in to place over Sanders who likely wouldn't have lost the Rust Belt which swung the result. So if stopping Trump was the most important thing, they didn't help.
 
We've learned the DNC maneuvered her in to place over Sanders who likely wouldn't have lost the Rust Belt which swung the result. So if stopping Trump was the most important thing, they didn't help.


nope. again, stop blaming the victims. Bernie wouldn't have won either
 
seriously, listen to yourselves. let's imagine this was just about misogyny. Would it be ok, or a reason to feel like "we didn't do enough" if it was half of the US against one man who advocated sexual assault on women, only because the person we elected to stand up to this nonsense didn't do enough to challenge this point? NO. It is the fault of those who believe such despicable things. End of story.
 
I guess the point is do we* need to do anything different next time** in order to win?

If so, what?

*meaning those of us broadly on the left/progressive scale of things

**not just in the US cause similar results are happening all over. French presidential elections might be the next big one.
 
Bernie would have won. Look at how he polled, the DNC thought that didn't matter and that they could win without white working class. They were wrong and it is their fault.

They thought they could replace the working class with suburban Republicans. They couldn't.

No one, not even Trump is to blame as much as these people.
 
No one is 'blaming the victims'.

It's not blaming the victims to attempt to analyse the forces that are driven the surge of the hard-right across the west, it's not not blaming the victims to recognise that people's politics are informed by material conditions, it's not blaming the victims to look at the interplay of capital and labour.

To simply say 'oh all these people are racists' not only doesn't explain a single thing its ostrich behaviour and is only going to benefit the hard-right. Ian Kershaw, Han Mommsen, Tim Mason etc aren't blaming the victims of fascism when they seek to try and understand how and why fascism came about and discuss the material conditions rather than simply saying 'oh those Germans and Italians they were all just racists'.

What are the forces driving the current success of the hard right? Why have the US/France/Austria seen right-wing 'anti-establishment' groups achieve success whereas in Scotland and Spain the groups that have benefited are (broadly) left-wing? These questions are important in helping us fight the hard right, and to answer them we have to analyse the relationship between materials conditions and political views.

J Ed's claim that 'Clinton made Trump' is of course a soundbite but the underlying basis of it is IMO correct, Trump/UKIP/FN are the result of neo-liberalism and whether you think that view is correct or not it's not blaming the victims to argue such.
 
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It's mostly white men isn't it, that voted for him. White men whose jobs were taken away and given outside the US, for economic reasons. Well they will see whether Trump can get them their jobs back. I for one fail to see how a business man like him is suddenly going to start caring about people over profit.

They've ready had demos. I foresee riots and all sorts.
 
it is interesting how the guardian and others have seized on that reassuring chart showing trumps larges vote in the p/b and h/b range. Class can safely be sidelined again, unless you look at the numbers more closely and in context
 
Bernie would have won. Look at how he polled, the DNC thought that didn't matter and that they could win without white working class. They were wrong and it is their fault.

They thought they could replace the working class with suburban Republicans. They couldn't.

No one, not even Trump is to blame as much as these people.

Actually several progressive senate/congress candidates with similar views to Bernie aren't doing so great in the midwest which would suggest you don't know if he'd have won.

Its monday morning quarterbacking at this junction and doesn't help anyone.
 
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