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Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion

phildwyer said:
And just a reminder that the USA instigated a coup that removed the democratically-elected President of Ukraine in 2014, then installed a pro-NATO Quisling regime and used it to attack the Russian-speaking Donbass, thus starting the war. I know they don't teach you that in the Western MSM.
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Ukrainians are crying out for the old government. They so dearly want to live in a Belarus style Russian buffer state.
 
Trump's ideas are terrible but he's lazy and doesn't understand how the US system works so he can't get his terrible ideas passed even if he got a Cheney the evil one not his daughter he wouldn't listen to even simple instructions.

hopefully the majority decided not to give him a 2nd term.
Biden has managed to get some stuff passed the infrastructure bill which is 30 years too late is having an effect.
 
Jeff Robinson said:
Bleak, bleak. bleak. It feels like watching the US gradually sliding to a Putin-style autocracy:

www.independent.co.uk

Iowa entrance polls show MAGA fans turned out for caucus: Live updates

Donald Trump holds commanding lead over challengers Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
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Over the last few months, I've spent quite a lot of time with Trump supporters. I've lost count of the number of times someone has (completely unsolicited) told me how awful the situation at the border is and that we're in horrific danger. They're afraid of migrants from Central America, afraid of terrorists crossing the border, and of communists taking over the country. I'm told that Biden is doing a horrible job with the economy. When I ask detailed questions, they can't really give me specifics about what Biden did to the economy, other than talk about gas prices. In one weird incident I was sitting in a bar named for and run by a Mexican immigrant, and they were telling me how immigration was ruining the country. They didn't seem to be aware of the place they were or the fact that the bar employed a number of local people. Then, I turn on Fox News and see a continuous "livestream" of people pouring over the border en masse. It was terrifying to watch. There were thousands of people desperately vying to move another few inches. In another cell they were showing a protest where climate protestors had shut down a roadway. The thing is they showed these two scenes for twenty-four hours a day, labeling it as "live" when it was clearly looped. The reason these people think there is chaos in the streets 24x7 is because they're being told (and shown) there is. And they feel that someone like Trump will keep them safe. They will be the first ones to quote "when you trade freedom for security, you get neither", but they're the first in line to try to make the deal.
 
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Yuwipi Woman said:
Over the last few months, I've spent quite a lot of time with Trump supporters. I've lost count of the number of times someone has (completely unsolicited) told me how awful the situation at the border is and that we're in horrific danger. They're afraid of migrants from Central America, afraid of terrorists crossing the border, and of communists taking over the country. I'm told that Biden is doing a horrible job with the economy. When I ask detailed questions, they can't really give me specifics about what Biden did to the economy, other than talk about gas prices. In one weird incident I was sitting in a bar named for and run by a Mexican immigrant, and they were telling me how immigration was ruining the country. They didn't seem to be aware of the place they were or the fact that the bar employed a number of local people. Then, I turn on Fox News and see a continuous "livestream" of people pouring over the border en masse. It was terrifying to watch. There were thousands of people desperately vying to move another few inches. In another cell they were showing a protest where climate protestors had shut down a roadway. The thing is they showed these two scenes for twenty-four hours a day, labeling it as "live" when it was clearly looped. The reason these people think there is chaos in the streets 24x7 is because they're being told (and shown) there is. And they feel that someone like Trump will keep them safe. They will be the first ones to quote "when you trade freedom for security, you get neither", but they're the first in line to try to make the deal.
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Yeah, I’ve always assumed the US’s extremely polarised media is one of the driving force of Trumpism. The BBC gets a lot of criticism on here, often justified, but my god I’m pleased we have it rather than Fox/CNN/MSNBC etc. We have rightwing media stations in the UK but at least everyone can tune in the the BBC and see different sides in a debate/discussion. I can’t imagine someone being found civilly liable for rape and fraud and facing over 90 criminal charges (including election fraud) getting anywhere near power here. Having an unauthorised Xmas party was enough to bring down our PM! Things are reported in the UK and people don’t think it’s ‘fake news’.
 
Jeff Robinson said:
Yeah, I’ve always assumed the US’s extremely polarised media is one of the driving force of Trumpism. The BBC gets a lot of criticism on here, often justified, but my god I’m pleased we have it rather than Fox/CNN/MSNBC etc. We have rightwing media stations in the UK but at least everyone can tune in the the BBC and see different sides in a debate/discussion. I can’t imagine someone being found civilly liable for rape and fraud and facing over 90 criminal charges (including election fraud) getting anywhere near power here. Having an unauthorised Xmas party was enough to bring down our PM! Things are reported in the UK and people don’t think it’s ‘fake news’.
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I do wonder if the UK is just beginning to develop channels like Fox News. GBNews seems to have popped up recently and they're at least as awful as Fox. They may not have a large footprint yet, but it seems to be growing and I've seen conservatives in the US link to their stories as evidence of why you have to be wary of immigration.

In the US, the left needs to fully develop and expand the reach of their own voice or the Trumps of the world will win. In rural areas there's sometimes not much of an alternative to Fox.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
I do wonder if the UK is just beginning to develop channels like Fox News. GBNews seems to have popped up recently and they're at least as awful as Fox. They may not have a large footprint yet, but it seems to be growing and I've seen conservatives in the US link to their stories as evidence of why you have to be wary of immigration.

In the US, the left needs to fully develop and expand the reach of their own voice or the Trumps of the world will win. In rural areas there's sometimes not much of an alternative to Fox.
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The trouble is that it’s not a level playing field - the left has no money to pay for TV channels or gaming social media. Billionaires will throw money at extreme right/libertarians because they represent their interests, at best you might get the odd one with some level of altruism like Soros throwing money at soft right interests like the Democratic Party or championing socially liberal values without taking aim at the underlying financial issues that fuel division and prejudices.

In the U.K. the only time in recent memory where it felt like there was a serious challenge to the status quo was the election where Corbyn (for all his faults) ran against May. There was huge organisation on Facebook and sharing of memes etc which ended with a result much closer than anticipated. People I know who barely expressed political opinions were out flyering at railway stations or knocking on doors. I think put the frighteners on the ‘elite’ and measures were taken to make sure this could never happen again, algorithms were adjusted and old media who had been complacent about ‘magic grandpa’ doubled down on attacking anything left. I don’t know if we will get another chance at organising with these tools.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
. I'm told that Biden is doing a horrible job with the economy. When I ask detailed questions, they can't really give me specifics about what Biden did to the economy, other than talk about gas prices.
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Same time as you have Powell raising rates saying tackling inflation is important Yelland is printing money fast as ever.
Bailing out 100% of SVB deposits -vast majority went to a handful of people - wot no moral hazard? We'll see..BTFP is supposed to wind up in March..

Gas prices - petro dollar is on its last legs
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
Over the last few months, I've spent quite a lot of time with Trump supporters. I've lost count of the number of times someone has (completely unsolicited) told me how awful the situation at the border is and that we're in horrific danger. They're afraid of migrants from Central America, afraid of terrorists crossing the border, and of communists taking over the country. I'm told that Biden is doing a horrible job with the economy. When I ask detailed questions, they can't really give me specifics about what Biden did to the economy, other than talk about gas prices. In one weird incident I was sitting in a bar named for and run by a Mexican immigrant, and they were telling me how immigration was ruining the country. They didn't seem to be aware of the place they were or the fact that the bar employed a number of local people. Then, I turn on Fox News and see a continuous "livestream" of people pouring over the border en masse. It was terrifying to watch. There were thousands of people desperately vying to move another few inches. In another cell they were showing a protest where climate protestors had shut down a roadway. The thing is they showed these two scenes for twenty-four hours a day, labeling it as "live" when it was clearly looped. The reason these people think there is chaos in the streets 24x7 is because they're being told (and shown) there is. And they feel that someone like Trump will keep them safe. They will be the first ones to quote "when you trade freedom for security, you get neither", but they're the first in line to try to make the deal.
Click to expand...

I don't know, have you been to the border lately? Things are pretty chaotic down there. The Mexican border towns are filling up with refugees from all over the world, and none of them have any idea of their status vis-a-vis the USA. There was a whole encampment of Ukrainians in TJ a few weeks ago, it suddenly disappeared, no idea where they went. There are loads of Haitians milling around with no money and no resources, in fact some of them are finding jobs and trying to settle down in Mexico. It's obvious that no-one in charge knows what the hell is going on, on either side of la linea. I don't blame "Biden" because the man is obviously senile, but whoever's running the government is doing a seriously terrible job of administering immigration.
 
Jeff Robinson said:
Yeah, I’ve always assumed the US’s extremely polarised media is one of the driving force of Trumpism. The BBC gets a lot of criticism on here, often justified, but my god I’m pleased we have it rather than Fox/CNN/MSNBC etc. We have rightwing media stations in the UK but at least everyone can tune in the the BBC and see different sides in a debate/discussion. I can’t imagine someone being found civilly liable for rape and fraud and facing over 90 criminal charges (including election fraud) getting anywhere near power here. Having an unauthorised Xmas party was enough to bring down our PM! Things are reported in the UK and people don’t think it’s ‘fake news’.
Click to expand...

Most Americans gave up on the MSM years ago, and that includes Fox. We tend to seek out independent journalists these days. Which brings its own dangers, of course, but is certainly preferable to the legacy media.
 
Rob Ray said:
Decline in big media is a known quantity. How far that funnels into your hellscape of dupes hopping between far-right social media headbangers is not.
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I did admit that there are problems with people doing their own research.

But I'd far prefer that to being constantly lied to by a MSM that only wants to exploit them or whip them up into a war frenzy. The American press' response to Occupy Wall St. finally discredited them in my eyes, and I think most Americans agree with me.

Anyway, the change is coming like it or not. No point in moaning about it.
 
What you prefer has placed you in the exact position of being lied to, exploited and whipped up into a frenzy. The only difference between the MSM and the shit you watch is production funding and desperation.

And "the change" is already here - it's the thing amping your confusion, fear and misery to win power for autocrats. I have no intention of silently accepting a future of barbarism.
 
Rob Ray said:
What you prefer has placed you in the exact position of being lied to, exploited and whipped up into a frenzy. The only difference between the MSM and the shit you watch is production funding and desperation.
Click to expand...

Independent journalists cover the entire range of political opinion. On the whole, they're less "right-wing" than the MSM.

Thing is, you have to watch several of them. Just like you should consume the state media from several different nations. And you should still watch the MSM too, if only to find out what Big Capital wants you to think. Variety is the key to truth imho.
 
Rob Ray said:
And "the change" is already here - it's the thing amping your confusion, fear and misery to win power for autocrats. I have no intention of silently accepting a future of barbarism.
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Barbarism is already here. The MSM helped bring us to it. The autocrats are already in power, they own the MSM.

Your loathing of independent media is nothing more than fear of the unknown, of the unfamiliar, You should get over it.
 
There are certainly some very good independent journalists, as there are good journalists working for the MSM. Where you are going wrong is thinking you've got an eye for who's trustworthy, because you've been very clear over the last while in showing yourself as having swallowed more Koolaid than a compound full of cultists. "Variety" is not some magic salve if you're uncritically nodding along with the loons and dismissing everyone else.
 
phildwyer said:
I don't know, have you been to the border lately? Things are pretty chaotic down there. The Mexican border towns are filling up with refugees from all over the world, and none of them have any idea of their status vis-a-vis the USA. There was a whole encampment of Ukrainians in TJ a few weeks ago, it suddenly disappeared, no idea where they went. There are loads of Haitians milling around with no money and no resources, in fact some of them are finding jobs and trying to settle down in Mexico. It's obvious that no-one in charge knows what the hell is going on, on either side of la linea. I don't blame "Biden" because the man is obviously senile, but whoever's running the government is doing a seriously terrible job of administering immigration.
Click to expand...

You've backed up none of this, you're just repeating the same kind of mendacious shit that Fox does.
 
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