Donald Trump - news and discussion

[albionism]

Is this for real?

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

When you read some of his statements about how tarrifs work, it would appear that he has a totally arse-backwards view of them. The impression he puts out is that 'his' tarrifs are more akin to a 'subscription fee' for being able to trade with 'the greatest country on earth(TM)' that's levied on the goods before they leave the supplier's country rather than what's charged dockside at the US ports in the form of a regressive blanket tax that the US consumer has to pony up for. I don't think the inflation of the price from point 'A' to point 'B' has even entered his thought process. Sort of like the end-point price of the item should be no different, its just the country trading with the US has to pay for the privilege. It's fucking mental.

Part of the election was fought on "the price of eggs", presumably as a clear and very visible indicator of how far the average American's wages will stretch (and how bad Sleepy Joe was for the ordinary folk).

Week one - egg prices at a record high, a trade war threatened with Colombia and Canada. Never mind the wider economic effects, that same very visible indicator for the masses will be in the form of a $50 dollar pancakes + maple syrup + coffee breakfast.

 

[emanymton]

When you read some of his statements about how tarrifs work, it would appear that he has a totally arse-backwards view of them. The impression he puts out is that 'his' tarrifs are more akin to a 'subscription fee' for being able to trade with 'the greatest country on earth(TM)' that's levied on the goods before they leave the supplier's country rather than what's charged dockside at the US ports in the form of a regressive blanket tax that the US consumer has to pony up for. I don't think the inflation of the price from point 'A' to point 'B' has even entered his thought process. Sort of like the end-point price of the item should be no different, its just the country trading with the US has to pay for the privilege. It's fucking mental.

Just because the tarrif is payed in the US doesn't me the cost of it can't be paid by the supplier though. Most likely the extra cost would be split between the 2 parties.

 

[andysays]

Is this for real?
View attachment 461491

Has he corrected that to "...Toe the line..."?

 

[Rob Ray]

When you read some of his statements about how tarrifs work, it would appear that he has a totally arse-backwards view of them. The impression he puts out is that 'his' tarrifs are more akin to a 'subscription fee' for being able to trade with 'the greatest country on earth(TM)' that's levied on the goods before they leave the supplier's country rather than what's charged dockside at the US ports in the form of a regressive blanket tax that the US consumer has to pony up for. I don't think the inflation of the price from point 'A' to point 'B' has even entered his thought process. Sort of like the end-point price of the item should be no different, its just the country trading with the US has to pay for the privilege. It's fucking mental.

I think this is more rhetoric for the plebs than his actual view. Don't forget whatever else he is, he's also been in international business for decades. Someone will have explained tariffs to him at some point, and it's not terribly complicated stuff.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Just because the tarrif is payed in the US doesn't me the cost of it can't be paid by the supplier though. Most likely the extra cost would be split between the 2 parties.

Yeah where something is actually paid for is a different thing to who ends up bearing the cost isn't it. As you say in some cases I'd think the suppliers will ultimately suck up some of that cost at least, you're probably not going to see 25% increases across the board. Equally though there's probably next to none who'll be able to just cover 25% in full.

 

[emanymton]

Yeah where something is actually paid for is a different thing to who ends up bearing the cost isn't it. As you say in some cases I'd think the suppliers will ultimately suck up some of that cost at least, you're probably not going to see 25% increases across the board. Equally though there's probably next to none who'll be able to just cover 25% in full.

There could be less immediately obvious effects in some cases as well, like trying recoup then lost money by cutting back on things like quality control.

 

[Rebecca Riot]

I think the question is what the effects are for him when things don't work out how he wants. Keeping down inflation was put out there as a key driver of him being elected, but does it matter for him at this point if his policies actually put prices up? I mean I'd expect a lot of bluster and finger pointing, and they'll almost certainly start mangling any economic data to suppress anything negative, but if it's too obvious and people start feeling the pain does that matter to him? He's not going to get chucked out is he.

He'll just tell everyone that everything is great and they've never had it so good, to coin a phrase.

Unfortunately, a lot of them will believe him.

 

[Coffeecup]

Perhaps this is all deflection? Take peoples attention off what Trump and his administration is really planning. Trade wars never make sense. Deportations could see less production of food which will lead to inflation.
Implementation of Project 2025?

 

[Nylock]

I think this is more rhetoric for the plebs than his actual view. Don't forget whatever else he is, he's also been in international business for decades. Someone will have explained tariffs to him at some point, and it's not terribly complicated stuff.

JFC, I have some understanding of how tarrifs work, it's just that his rhetoric does seem to point to tarrifs being (incorrectly) used as a means of extorting money from the source country in a 'pay to play' model. Whether he's genuine about that level of idiocy or not remains to be seen. But I wouldn't put it past him. Frankly, I wouldn't put anything past him.

 

[Rob Ray]

JFC, I have some understanding of how tarrifs work, it's just that his rhetoric does seem to point to tarrifs being (incorrectly) used as a means of extorting money from the source country in a 'pay to play' model. Whether he's genuine about that level of idiocy or not remains to be seen. But I wouldn't put it past him. Frankly, I wouldn't put anything past him.

I would, frankly. I've been saying for a long time he's not as much of a drooling idiot as people like to think (and he in fact often likes to deliberately project), and his ongoing success in wrongfooting people supposedly much smarter than him has tended to prove this correct. We really need to get away from this idea that the Trump administration doesn't know what it's doing, it's done the left zero favours.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I would, frankly. I've been saying for a long time he's not as much of a drooling idiot as people like to think (and he in fact often likes to deliberately project), and his ongoing success in wrongfooting people supposedly much smarter than him has tended to prove this correct. We really need to get away from this idea that the Trump administration doesn't know what it's doing, it's done the left zero favours.

Yeah I tend to agree with this. I think Trump is pretty ignorant in a lot of ways - if he did Mastermind he'd get zero on general knowledge and his specialist subject would be 'the life and mighty achievements of Donald J Trump' where Obama, say, would probably smash it out of the park - but he's definitely not stupid is he.

 

[Rebecca Riot]

Yeah I tend to agree with this. I think Trump is pretty ignorant in a lot of ways - if he did Mastermind he'd get zero on general knowledge and his specialist subject would be 'the life and mighty achievements of Donald J Trump' where Obama, say, would probably smash it out of the park - but he's definitely not stupid is he.

What he does excel in is getting people to believe him, even if he's wrong.

It's the Jim Jones effect.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

 

[Artaxerxes]

The Colombian government will continue to receive deported Colombians, “guaranteeing them dignified conditions,” Murillo said in a video statement late Sunday. "We have overcome the impasse with the United States government.”

I think the issue might have been the shackles placed on deportees - Colombia was already accepting an average of around two deportation flights a week under the Biden administration

https://archive.ph/A7W8f

The normal etiquette is to send deportees back in civilian planes, this wasn’t being done

So yeah it’s a self made dick swinging problem by trump admin

 

[pogofish]

As well as mining for rare earth elements, there's also mining for precious stones, eg rubies. But it's probably the rare earth elements that Trump's mostly interested in. Or rather the crypto, AI and other tech bros who have his ear are interested in them.

Interestingly, there is a company prospecting for rare earth minerals within a few miles of Trump's course at Menie, right now and they are not playing by the rules for going about their activities.

I wonder how well Trump or Eric is going to take that one if they find anything worth mining?

I looked up the firm concerned and it appears "Asian Metals" is a joint venture between Hambro, Blackrock and Hargreaves Landsdowne. Hmmm..!

I'm having flashbacks to our anti-Nirex activities of yore. Could get fun!

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I would, frankly. I've been saying for a long time he's not as much of a drooling idiot as people like to think (and he in fact often likes to deliberately project), and his ongoing success in wrongfooting people supposedly much smarter than him has tended to prove this correct. We really need to get away from this idea that the Trump administration doesn't know what it's doing, it's done the left zero favours.

imo he is actually a fucking idiot, but in our world fucking idiots can go quite far if they've got money and actual smart people surrounding them - and Trump has both (see also Musk).

 

[Nylock]

I would, frankly. I've been saying for a long time he's not as much of a drooling idiot as people like to think (and he in fact often likes to deliberately project), and his ongoing success in wrongfooting people supposedly much smarter than him has tended to prove this correct. We really need to get away from this idea that the Trump administration doesn't know what it's doing, it's done the left zero favours.

I meant not putting anything past him in a more general "if they can get away with it, they will" context. I'm posting at work so brevity being the enemy of clarity and all that. I agree with you about it being a smokescreen and rhetoric for "the plebs" than an actual genuine expression of his perceived idiocy (even though his mendacity and short-sightedness can certainly be construed as such). I don't think he actually thinks tarrifs work the way I've described, I've just described the way it comes across. To those that want to hear it like that, at least...

EDIT TO ADD: However, his pronouncements on matters not related to financial shit are frankly the most unhinged bollocks I have ever heard.

 

[PTK]

imo he is actually a fucking idiot, but in our world fucking idiots can go quite far if they've got money and actual smart people surrounding them - and Trump has both (see also Musk).

Trump is definitely stupid. Anyone in his position who can state that Spain is a member of the BRICS group is certainly stupid.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think this is more rhetoric for the plebs than his actual view. Don't forget whatever else he is, he's also been in international business for decades. Someone will have explained tariffs to him at some point, and it's not terribly complicated stuff.

Probably. However, it is a dangerous path. There are basically two reasons to introduce tariffs: to raise some tax revenue, or/and to provide a boost to domestic production. He's using them as a threat in place of warships currently. It is rather bizarre.

 

[bluescreen]

He may be ill-informed but he is cunning and brutal.

 

[MrsArcanum]

He may be ill-informed but he is cunning and brutal.

Brutal yes, cunning no. He is fixated and will not veer from his idea of tariffs, even though they will not do what he thinks they will.

 

[klang]

Brutal yes, cunning no. He is fixated and will not veer from his idea of tariffs, even though they will not do what he thinks they will.

Not sure what he thinks or has been advised on re tariffs tbh

 

[PTK]

Probably. However, it is a dangerous path. There are basically two reasons to introduce tariffs: to raise some tax revenue, or/and to provide a boost to domestic production. He's using them as a threat in place of warships currently. It is rather bizarre.

I don't think it is the first time that tariffs have been used as a political weapon.

 

[MrsArcanum]

Not sure what he thinks or has been advised on re tariffs tbh

From what he says, he seems to think tariffs will only put money into the government from importers. He seems incapable of realising those costs will ultimately be paid by the end purchaser, fuelling inflation and/or reducing the supply of goods.

 

[maomao]

Surely the point is to reduce the supply of goods from abroad/make foreign goods more expensive to the consumer, thereby creating opportunities to produce within the US, rather than to actually raise money.

 

[PTK]

Surely the point is to reduce the supply of goods from abroad/make foreign goods more expensive to the consumer, thereby creating opportunities to produce within the US, rather than to actually raise money.

I may be wrong, but I think in some cases tariffs have been imposed as a way of raising money.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Surely the point is to reduce the supply of goods from abroad/make foreign goods more expensive to the consumer, thereby creating opportunities to produce within the US, rather than to actually raise money.

It's a tax. So it is a way of raising money. The levels being bandied about would raise a lot of money. Perhaps fund a tax cut for the rich.

It's hard to tell the motivation, tbh. Tariffs on goods intended to boost domestic production tend to be targeted carefully, not proffered randomly as revenge for matters unrelated to trade.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't think it is the first time that tariffs have been used as a political weapon.

How has that gone in the past? It seems like a very foolish thing to use as a political weapon.

 

[andysays]

It's a tax. So it is a way of raising money. The levels being bandied about would raise a lot of money. Perhaps fund a tax cut for the rich.

It's hard to tell the motivation, tbh. Tariffs on goods intended to boost domestic production tend to be targeted carefully, not proffered randomly as revenge for matters unrelated to trade.

But there's an assumption here that levels of consumption would remain more or less the same after tariffs were imposed, which could be a dangerous assumption to make.