Donald Trump - news and discussion

[littlebabyjesus]

But there's an assumption here that levels of consumption would remain more or less the same after tariffs were imposed, which could be a dangerous assumption to make.

There are all kinds of assumptions. But if there is currently zero tariff and that is raised to anything above zero, that is bringing in money to the US treasury in the short term, even if the levels of import go down. How that affects the overall tax take depends on how the overall economy goes.

(In the US, sales tax (equivalent of VAT) is a state tax rather than a federal tax, so if sales go down as a result of tariffs, it is the state coffers that suffer directly, not the federal ones.)

 

[pogofish]

Probably. However, it is a dangerous path. There are basically two reasons to introduce tariffs: to raise some tax revenue, or/and to provide a boost to domestic production. He's using them as a threat in place of warships currently. It is rather bizarre.

Another possibility is that he may be playing to the greed of his base? A significant subsection of them seem hung up on the rhetoric that tariffs could replace taxes in the US. I doubt Trump believes this but is happy to string his mugs along with the idea for as long as he can.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Another possibility is that he may be playing to the greed of his base? A significant subsection of them seem hung up on the rhetoric that tariffs could replace taxes in the US. I doubt Trump believes this but is happy to string his mugs along with the idea for as long as he can.

Ah ok, I didn't know that this was being discussed on those terms. Tariffs are taxes, of course, but no matter.

There is a kind of historical parallel here, though – with Thatcher. Thatcher part-funded cuts in income tax by cranking up VAT.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

This is so disgusting. They’ll end up with civil war.

I came to the conclusion this week that the US is already in a civil war. It's just been a cold war. It'll go to hot war sooner or later and everyone on the left needs to acknowledge that's how things are going. You can't avoid a civil war by ignoring when its being prepared against you.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Let's hope to see a lot more responses like this from officials that Trump thinks he can just bin like it's The Apprentice.

View attachment 461392

He'll ignore this. At this point I think he'll ignore Supreme Court decisions if it suits him.

When he took office, he removed a picture of "lady liberty" and replaced it with a picture of Andrew Jackson. Jackson was similar to Trump in that he hated native peoples and was prone to ignoring legal decisions that didn't go his way. He was also a known attention whore and bombastic speaker.

Andrew Jackson was the president responsible for the Trail of Tears:

The Trail of Tears: Andrew Jackson and the Indian Removal Act

The great Cherokee Nation that had fought the young Andrew Jackson back in 1788 now faced an even more powerful and determined man who was intent on

www.historynet.com

 

[lazythursday]

I think this point that is made over and over that he doesn't understand, the consumer pays etc is a bit overblown. Yes tariffs will raise prices and may damage the US economy. But they do also reduce competition for domestic producers (where they exist) and those allies who don't have the tariffs - and they do harm the country involved by reducing their exports. Access to the US market is very important for lots of countries. So it is a genuine weapon and bargaining chip, albeit a potentially dangerous one for the US economy.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think this point that is made over and over that he doesn't understand, the consumer pays etc is a bit overblown. Yes tariffs will raise prices and may damage the US economy. But they do also reduce competition for domestic producers (where they exist) and those allies who don't have the tariffs - and they do harm the country involved by reducing their exports. Access to the US market is very important for lots of countries. So it is a genuine weapon and bargaining chip, albeit a potentially dangerous one for the US economy.

It's a genuine weapon, but one that also blows up in your own face. Your post shows one reason why - to potentially stimulate domestic production, tariffs have to be carefully selected. Tariffs can also reduce domestic production, of course, where US producers are using imported raw materials or components, which is very often the case.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Green light for China over Taiwan, if he does go into Greenland, they could just repeat felon 34's words for justification.

I don't think Trump would defend Taiwan anyway. He has a habit of selling out entire groups just to get a (bad) deal he can brag about.

 

[Coffeecup]

I don't think Trump would defend Taiwan anyway. He has a habit of selling out entire groups just to get a (bad) deal he can brag about.

And then his base can claim Trump never caused any wars.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

And then his base can claim Trump never caused any wars.

Even better he's "the great peacemaker."

 

[NoXion]

I think this point that is made over and over that he doesn't understand, the consumer pays etc is a bit overblown. Yes tariffs will raise prices and may damage the US economy. But they do also reduce competition for domestic producers (where they exist) and those allies who don't have the tariffs - and they do harm the country involved by reducing their exports. Access to the US market is very important for lots of countries. So it is a genuine weapon and bargaining chip, albeit a potentially dangerous one for the US economy.

Colombia's biggest exports to the US include coffee and crude petroleum. Slapping on a blanket 25% tariff looks to me like it would have eye-watering effects on US prices at the pump, rather than just being "overblown". Don't think the US produces much if any of its own coffee either. Another significant price bump.

If the intention behind these tariffs is to fuck shit up for the ordinary Americans, then he's doing a bang-up job.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Colombia's biggest exports to the US include coffee and crude petroleum. Slapping on a blanket 25% tariff looks to me like it would have eye-watering effects on US prices at the pump, rather than just being "overblown". Don't think the US produces much if any of its own coffee either. Another significant price bump.

If the intention behind these tariffs is to fuck shit up for the ordinary Americans, then he's doing a bang-up job.

Yep. Tariffs on things that are not produced in the US, like coffee, are simply a sales tax. No different from VAT.

 

[Coffeecup]

Even better he's "the great peacemaker."

A so called peacemaker who would sell any group down the river for a deal. What is the cost of the Middle East ceasefire?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Yep. Tariffs on things that are not produced in the US, like coffee, are simply a sales tax. No different from VAT.

Hawaii produces coffee, but not in large enough quantities to serve the entire US market. What I think would happen is that Kona coffee would also rise in price, because well... they can. Prices for domestic goods would also rise simply because they have the ability to ask for more.

 

[tim]

Yep. Tariffs on things that are not produced in the US, like coffee, are simply a sales tax. No different from VAT.

Not all coffee comes from Colombia, so a tariff against one country would favour producers in another more compliant country

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Yep. Tariffs on things that are not produced in the US, like coffee, are simply a sales tax. No different from VAT.

It's a bit different in that a company using those imports can't claim back the input VAT so it'll push prices up more.

 

[NoXion]

Not all coffee comes from Colombia, so a tariff against one country would favour producers in another more compliant country

Would still fuck over American coffee drinkers if those countries decide to raise prices anyway. That's assuming that those countries don't do anything to cause Trump to throw another tariff-related temper tantrum, which does not seem like a safe assumption.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's a bit different in that a company using those imports can't claim back the input VAT so it'll push prices up more.

yes, good point. It's worse than VAT.

 

[klang]

Will be interesting to hear Yuwipi Woman s and petee s and other US posters' reports from the check outs

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not all coffee comes from Colombia, so a tariff against one country would favour producers in another more compliant country

As Yuwipi Woman points out, everyone is going to take the opportunity to put their prices up. Cos they can.

 

[klang]

As Yuwupi Woman points out, everyone is going to take the opportunity to put their prices up. Cos they can.

Or keep them artificially low for the time being to minimise competition. For a period.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Or keep them artificially low for the time being to minimise competition. For a period.

'My competitors are now charged a 25% tax.'

No way they're cutting their prices! Why not put them up?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Not all coffee comes from Colombia, so a tariff against one country would favour producers in another more compliant country

This is potentially true. It might also push up production costs in other countries to the point where they have to raise prices. It might also inspire them to avoid the US market entirely and sell to BRIC countries, developing trade with other markets. This is already happening with the soy market.

What they should do is band together and resist. If they don't that'll give Trump the power to jerk anyone's chain at any time and get results.

Either way, its going to be a long miserable haul for everyone, include the US consumer.

 

[Coffeecup]

He'll ignore this. At this point I think he'll ignore Supreme Court decisions if it suits him.

When he took office, he removed a picture of "lady liberty" and replaced it with a picture of Andrew Jackson. Jackson was similar to Trump in that he hated native peoples and was prone to ignoring legal decisions that didn't go his way. He was also a known attention whore and bombastic speaker.

Andrew Jackson was the president responsible for the Trail of Tears:

The Trail of Tears: Andrew Jackson and the Indian Removal Act

The great Cherokee Nation that had fought the young Andrew Jackson back in 1788 now faced an even more powerful and determined man who was intent on

www.historynet.com

I remember the film Soldier Blue in my late teenage years. It had a huge transformation on Hollywood’s portrayal of films with people like John Wayne and the Calvary where film goers used to cheer when the Calvary arrived not knowing what they were cheering. John Wayne a big supporter of the NRA. Andrew Jackson’s picture is deliberate. His whole objective is Dictatorship.

 

[Smangus]

All this tariff talk, has he actually implemented any yet? If not then he's AMNT

All mouth no trousers.

 

[two sheds]

It might also inspire them to avoid the US market entirely and sell to BRIC countries, developing trade with other markets. This is already happening with the soy market.

BRICS countries

you forgot Spain

 

[Coffeecup]

This is potentially true. It might also push up production costs in other countries to the point where they have to raise prices. It might also inspire them to avoid the US market entirely and sell to BRIC countries, developing trade with other markets. This is already happening with the soy market.

What they should do is band together and resist. If they don't that'll give Trump the power to jerk anyone's chain at any time and get results.

Either way, its going to be a long miserable haul for everyone, include the US consumer.

I think BRICS Nations want to undermine the US dollar as a reserve currency.

 

[CH1]

BRICS countries

you forgot Spain

I would have thought that Trump 2.0 might encourage Colombia and Panama to JOIN the BRICS and the Belt and Road.
This guy from an American "marxist" group thinks so. (not very sound on Ukraine by the way)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

While I agree that it's probably wrong to call Trump 'thick', I do suspect that he has a foundational belief that the US is such a powerful country that it can basically do what it wants and nobody will stand up to it. That belief is going to be sorely tested.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

BRICS countries

you forgot Spain

My apologies.