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Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion

This is the calm before the storm, Trump is reportedly preparing to deliver a tsunami of shit around this time next week

President-elect Donald Trump will issue “a blizzard of executive orders” as soon as he inaugurated Jan. 20, Sen. John Barrasso predicted Sunday.

Speaking on CBS’ “Face the Nation,” the Wyoming Republican said: “When President Trump takes office next Monday, there is going to be shock and awe with executive orders. A blizzard of executive orders on the economy, as well as on the border.”

 
Too many American citizens (and slightly too many Brits). Just get disillusioned with the cyclic 2 party politics of much of the same, and just want Politics to be entertainment.

They've got their popcorn ready for Trump, Boris, to mix it up and do something different. Be different to the Political class.

This one might really be the one step too far. Boris and Brexit has harmed this country for generations.

But Trump is fully capable of making some dangerous moves both domestically and internationally. In a weird sort of way, I hope some voters are forced to re assess their MAGA brainwashing as a result. As nothing else is making them realise just now dangerous this man, his incoming cabinet, and their Politics, is for them and everyone, bar the super rich.
 
stavros said:
He's got quite a lot that he's pledged to do on his first day in office: peace in Ukraine; peace in Gaza; pull out of Paris accord; pardon the 6 January insurrectionists, and possibly others.

If any or all of the above don't get done by midnight next Tuesday is he a failure?
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He is one anyway - as a normal human being at any rate.
 
I seem to have kicked off entirely a different discussion to the one I was actually trying to refer to. I’m not talking about the sense of self or the agency of the self. I’m talking far more prosaically about how the self is constituted. There is such a strong tradition in both modern society and contemporary psychology to treat the individual agent as separate from their context that the assumption barely even gets noticed, let alone questioned. This implicit assumption is that there is a bounded individual that has wants and preferences and emotions and thoughts that arrive independently from other individuals and are enacted strategically upstream from the individual’s behaviours. These is the dualities I am referring to (mind/body and content/process respectively). But for a lot of reasons blah blah blah the assumptions rapidly fall apart when you interrogate them. In truth, all our wants, preferences, emotions, thoughts, aims, beliefs and you name it are mediated through the cultural artefacts we engage with and developed through. There are no desires or aims upstream of behaviours and actions, like some kind of unidirectional flow. The desires and the actions, the context and the behaviours all occur in reciprocity with each other.
 
kabbes said:
I seem to have kicked off entirely a different discussion to the one I was actually trying to refer to. I’m not talking about the sense of self or the agency of the self. I’m talking far more prosaically about how the self is constituted. There is such a strong tradition in both modern society and contemporary psychology to treat the individual agent as separate from their context that the assumption barely even gets noticed, let alone questioned. This implicit assumption is that there is a bounded individual that has wants and preferences and emotions and thoughts that arrive independently from other individuals and are enacted strategically upstream from the individual’s behaviours. These is the dualities I am referring to (mind/body and content/process respectively). But for a lot of reasons blah blah blah the assumptions rapidly fall apart when you interrogate them. In truth, all our wants, preferences, emotions, thoughts, aims, beliefs and you name it are mediated through the cultural artefacts we engage with and developed through. There are no desires or aims upstream of behaviours and actions, like some kind of unidirectional flow. The desires and the actions, the context and the behaviours all occur in reciprocity with each other.
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You would say that.
 
I mean yeah that's all very nice kabbes but, you know, sometimes there are individuals who happen to have such a pecular "mediation of cultural artefacts" and contexts within which to act that they end up having a disproportionate impact on the lives of people around the world. Lenin was one. Trump is another.
 
Coffeecup said:
We might all be in the Truman show. Who can say otherwise? Are we in the Matrix? There are all sorts of beliefs and besides that we are told we have free will. But are we told that has a price either negative or positive?

The Buddha said the middle road is the right way. Trump says he’s a Christian, but also said, who believes this shit?

Is Trump evil or just a dipstick plonker?
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As much as I believe in evil (I mean, what is evil?), I think Trump probably fits the description.
 
Flavour said:
I mean yeah that's all very nice kabbes but, you know, sometimes there are individuals who happen to have such a pecular "mediation of cultural artefacts" and contexts within which to act that they end up having a disproportionate impact on the lives of people around the world. Lenin was one. Trump is another.
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I’m not talking about Trump, though. I’m saying that you can’t divorce the daily practices of the American voters of Youngstown from the meaning they make of their (small-p) political environment from the way they react to that environment as thoughts and emotions from what they think constitutes meaningful action in line with that reaction. They are all of a piece — content and process as one.
 
Rompipalle said:
What do you mean? I have plenty of empathy for people who don't seem to realise that they have been conned - utterly and completely conned by this utter charlatan. I can't MAKE them see that he is a wrong 'un though, can I? It's as plain as day for many of us what he is. It was their choice to make, nevertheless but I will not stand by and commend them for their superb judgment in electing a liar and a sex offender to lead their country.

Between the end of January 2021 and up to now, generally speaking, the people of the US have experienced relative peace & quiet and stability. I realise that the country was not transformed into an idyllic paradise under Biden's administration but at least the grown-ups were in charge and things ticked over in a reasonably stable manner.
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What was inflation like around 2022 and 2023? If your rent and the prices you pay in the shops are going up wildly, but your wages aren't, how much comfort is it to know that the grown-ups are in charge?
Rompipalle said:
What I'm trying to say is that a lot of people genuinely thought that is what he said and are unaware that it has been established what he actually did say.

It's not some huge conspiracy - just that some people are possibly still unaware of the reality.
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Are these people stupid? When do beliefs that don't reflect reality make you stupid, and when is it fine to think things that aren't true?
 
hitmouse said:
What was inflation like around 2022 and 2023? If your rent and the prices you pay in the shops are going up wildly, but your wages aren't, how much comfort is it to know that the grown-ups are in charge?

Are these people stupid? When do beliefs that don't reflect reality make you stupid, and when is it fine to think things that aren't true?
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Re inflation, the US was experiencing the same as many other countries, so it was little or nothing to do with US government policy.

Not sure that your second point is all about. Surely the "bigly" thing was just that what he said was misheard and reported as something else and, because it was deemed to be quite funny, it kind of "stuck" thereafter.

What does stupidity have to do with it? - it was simply a misunderstanding and you appear to be overthinking it. Trump is widely seen as a figure of ridicule on account of his behaviour and because of his lack of finesse with language - which tends to be something of a drawback for a statesperson - this was just another example of that.
 
Rompipalle said:
Re inflation, the US was experiencing the same as many other countries, so it was little or nothing to do with US government policy.
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I mean, there's truth to that, but I was interested in what people are experiencing. I don't think that 2022-23 felt like stability for a lot of people, and I think that something like inflation is felt in people's actual lives much more directly than the clowns in congress being a bunch of clowns.
Rompipalle said:
Not sure that your second point is all about. Surely the "bigly" thing was just that what he said was misheard and reported as something else and, because it was deemed to be quite funny, it kind of "stuck" thereafter.

What does stupidity have to do with it? - it was simply a misunderstanding and you appear to be overthinking it. Trump is widely seen as a figure of ridicule on account of his behaviour and because of his lack of finesse with language - which tends to be something of a drawback for a statesperson - this was just another example of that.
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I mean, it's not the most important thing in the world, but I think it is a useful angle to consider our own biases. If there was a widespread belief among Trump supporters that Harris or Biden said something that they didn't really say, would you just say "it was simply a misunderstanding" and move on?
 
Johnny Vodka said:
As much as I believe in evil (I mean, what is evil?), I think Trump probably fits the description.
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He may be. I don’t know how to qualify what he is. I can say what I think he is.

He seems to want to copy Putin. He’s managed to win the Presidency based on lies. People can be manipulated as we see with cult leaders, so we know it’s possible. America got off lightly in his first term as he didn’t expect to win so no one knows what he’s capable of now.

I think he’s a very disturbed man lacking any empathy. Time will tell how far he will go. Maybe we’ll know more in the next couple of years.
 
kabbes said:
There is such a strong tradition in both modern society and contemporary psychology to treat the individual agent as separate from their context that the assumption barely even gets noticed, let alone questioned.
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Really? Genuinely surprised by that.

Which shouldn't really be surprising, I'm not exactly well-read in the area. But I think I had basically assumed that, in professional circles, at least, the overall trend had been to a general acceptanve that 'individuals' are basically formed by the context of their interactions and surroundings.
 
hitmouse said:
I mean, there's truth to that, but I was interested in what people are experiencing. I don't think that 2022-23 felt like stability for a lot of people, and I think that something like inflation is felt in people's actual lives much more directly than the clowns in congress being a bunch of clowns.

I mean, it's not the most important thing in the world, but I think it is a useful angle to consider our own biases. If there was a widespread belief among Trump supporters that Harris or Biden said something that they didn't really say, would you just say "it was simply a misunderstanding" and move on?
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I have no idea. I can't really speculate on something that didn't happen... unless you're suggesting that it did. If so, I'm not aware of it.
 
I mean, I don't really pay enough attention to be able to cite specific examples, but I'm sure there are probably loads. But more than that, I was just suggesting you could use your imagination to think about how you might react in that situation?
 
Lord Camomile said:
Really? Genuinely surprised by that.

Which shouldn't really be surprising, I'm not exactly well-read in the area. But I think I had basically assumed that, in professional circles, at least, the overall trend had been to a general acceptanve that 'individuals' are basically formed by the context of their interactions and surroundings.
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The last 20 years have seen an increasing focus in mainstream psychology towards trying to be a natural science. That requires a commitment towards the establishment of universal laws based on cause and effect. In other words, treating people as if they are predictable and individual machines. Don’t get me wrong, there is some brilliant stuff out there in the critical and sociocultural spaces but it’s very much sidelined Most university undergraduate degrees barely give it a nod at best. A lot of 21 year olds will come out of their degree thinking that psychology is something you do with statistics and measurements and barely even know the theoretical underpinnings. Context is treated like an annoying complicating factor to be flattened out. And it doesn’t work — you might heard of the replication crisis, for example. But this is a rant for another time, I suspect.
 
hitmouse said:
I mean, I don't really pay enough attention to be able to cite specific examples, but I'm sure there are probably loads. But more than that, I was just suggesting you could use your imagination to think about how you might react in that situation?
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I don't know and to be honest, I don't really care all that much.

I think Trump is a complete fool and the next four years as likely to be as much a shitshow as his previous tenure. I'd really just like it to be over as soon as possible. On that basis, I'm really not interested in speculating upon what his followers think and may or not believe about anyone else.
 
Yossarian said:
The Village People are playing Trump's inauguration, we are definitely in the dumbest possible timeline

www.france24.com

Village People, Carrie Underwood to perform at Trump inauguration

The Village People -- the group behind "Y.M.C.A," a staple of Donald Trump's rallies -- said Monday they have accepted an invitation from the president-elect to perform at events connected to next week's…
www.france24.com www.france24.com
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I wonder if they imagine they're likely to be paid for performing... 🤔
 
Rompipalle said:
I think Trump is a complete fool and the next four years as likely to be as much a shitshow as his previous tenure. I'd really just like it to be over as soon as possible. On that basis, I'm really not interested in speculating upon what his followers think and may or not believe about anyone else.
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Genuine question: how do you expect it to be over as soon as possible if you dont think people should be interested in how we got here? What's going to happen to change it?

Because I gotta say, I'm pretty sure many who are happy that Trump got a second term will be active and working very hard to make sure the wider trend isn't over for much longer than his presidency.

We just cross our fingers and hope they mess up?
 
Lord Camomile said:
Genuine question: how do you expect it to be over as soon as possible if you dont think people should be interested in how we got here? What's going to happen to change it?

Because I gotta say, I'm pretty sure many who are happy that Trump got a second term will be active and working very hard to make sure the wider trend isn't over for much longer than his presidency.

We just cross our fingers and hope they mess up?
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Where did I say that I expected it to be over as soon as possible?

I didn't.

I said that I would like it to be over as soon as possible. That's not the same thing.
 
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