Do you consider yourself an audiophile?

[Fictionist]

I'm sure amps could make a difference in much the same way guitar amps do. However the only purpose of a hi-fi amp is to amplify the signal from the source so the speakers as is. I worry constantly about what guitar or bass amp I am going to use but I have never ever in a studio or at home given a shit about what amp powers the speakers. It just has to be the right power.
It's not a hi-fi amps job to change the sound, that would be a shit amp and could only involve something like pointless gain, drive, pre-amps tone or eq. All stuff you don't want.
Again, look at the pro amps? What do they do? They work without blowing up. Do you ever see speaker amps in pro sound mags? No. Just like there are no adverts or features on cables. What could you say? They work or they don't work, they have a pretty cover on them? Make any other claim and you would be laughed out of a job.

Line with gain. What is a pro amp?

 

[Orang Utan]

All my stuff is of good quality, but most of it is old (although regularly serviced), some of it over 40 years old.

i have some 40 year old Goodmans speakers that are boss, but the connects are broken and i can't be bothered to get them fixed, so i'm making do with JVC speakers from an ex-girlfriend's stacker system

 

[ViolentPanda]

Oh come on Bees. I'm no confessed audiophile but even I feel compelled to mention that there's more to the sound of an amplifier than its power output.

There is.
It's called the tone control circuit, and how you set the potentiometers in that circuit makes a big difference to the sound.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Nonsense - you have previously admiited that differences might exist between components (after all the sound has probably been engineered in a particular way) - so the insistence on 'blind' listening is an attempt (on your part) to make a nonsense of this basic fact. But putting that to one side - if one person can articulate a difference in perceived sound (even during one 'test') your 'all Hi Fi equipment sounds the same' line falls apart!

Can you honestly not see where your logic is going wrong here?

What system do you listen to at home Bees?

Tell me why the answer is relevant...

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

There is.
It's called the tone control circuit, and how you set the potentiometers in that circuit makes a big difference to the sound.

The irony being that most audiophiles insist on amps that have tone control bypass switches, becuase they "don't want to colour the sound"

 

[ViolentPanda]

My ears. Golden ears. Not deaf. Try the test with the cables I mentioned (for very specific reasons).

So your thesis is based entirely on the purported quality of your own hearing.

You'd get laughed out of GCSE physics class for presenting evidence of such poor quality.

 

[tarannau]

There is.
It's called the tone control circuit, and how you set the potentiometers in that circuit makes a big difference to the sound.

And not every amp has a source direct either.


To be fair, I'm happier with tone controls than not. Which probably marks me out as godless heathen in some audiophile circles. But I still maintain that amps with seemingly identical power outputs - a reductive measure in any sense - can sound genuinely different when slotted into an existing rig.

For all the guff I just want a system that sounds good and weighty in conditions of comparatively small spaces, something I've got with a comparatively humble amp and decent B&Ws, tested and compared with many over the years.

 

[Fictionist]

So your thesis is based entirely on the purported quality of your own hearing.

You'd get laughed out of GCSE physics class for presenting evidence of such poor quality.

Try the test and then tell me you couldn't hear a difference.

 

[Orang Utan]

you have a wonderful imagination mr fictionist - you should put it to good use

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Try the test and then tell me you couldn't hear a difference

Do you not understand how the test needs to be blind for it to be valid? Just knowing that a cable has been changed is enough to invalidate any results.

 

[Fictionist]

The irony being that most audiophiles insist on amps that have tone control bypass switches, becuase they "don't want to colour the sound"

I don't. My amplifier allows for tone controls to be bypassed - which I use so as not to allow any distortion to impede my listening pleasure.

And most audiophiles will be using systems where tone controls are not used.

But you would know that Mr Professional.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

What is a pro amp?

You can use google can't you? Probably just something more robust and rack mounted with no knobs and running at +4 rather than -10.

Something reliable that matches the speakers and amplifies the signal.

Are you dim or something? You obviously read my last post.

 

[Fictionist]

You can use google can't you? Probably just something more robust and rack mounted with no knobs and running at +4 rather than -10.

Something reliable that matches the speakers and amplifies the signal.

Are you dim or something? You obviously read my last post.

Explain what you mean please.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I don't. My amplifier allows for tone controls to be bypassed - which I use so as not to allow any distortion to impede my listening pleasure.

And most audiophhiles will be using systems where tone controls are not used.

But you would know that Mr Professional.

Do Keep up.

The irony being that most audiophiles insist on amps that have tone control bypass switches, becuase they "don't want to colour the sound"

 

[ViolentPanda]

i have some 40 year old Goodmans speakers that are boss, but the connects are broken and i can't be bothered to get them fixed, so i'm making do with JVC speakers from an ex-girlfriend's stacker system

In my experience they were much better made. My speakers are Lasky Criterions (older posters may remember Laskys as a classier version of Dixons in the 1960s and 1970s) which are alleged to be "re-badged" Wharfedales, and the cabs are jointed hardwood with the cones mounted onto ply rather than being compo/MDF/chip-board. I'll admit to having re-soldered some of the wiring in them and renewing the acoustic wadding about 15 years ago, but they're still cracking after 5 decades of sustained use.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I don't. My amplifier allows for tone controls to be bypassed - which I use so as not to allow any distortion to impede my listening pleasure.

And most audiophiles will be using systems where tone controls are not used.

But you would know that Mr Professional.

You're agreeing with me in this post

 

[ViolentPanda]

The irony being that most audiophiles insist on amps that have tone control bypass switches, becuase they "don't want to colour the sound"

That's because they rely on their interconnects to do that.

 

[Orang Utan]

In my experience they were much better made. My speakers are Lasky Criterions (older posters may remember Laskys as a classier version of Dixons in the 1960s and 1970s) which are alleged to be "re-badged" Wharfedales, and the cabs are jointed hardwood with the cones mounted onto ply rather than being compo/MDF/chip-board. I'll admit to having re-soldered some of the wiring in them and renewing the acoustic wadding about 15 years ago, but they're still cracking after 5 decades of sustained use.

they're certainly built to last - they make handy drinks tables and spare seats

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Explain what you mean please.

If you really need to ask then I think all your comments on the amp subject should be void (and lets not forget about the cable madness)

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Does audiophile bollocks extend to sound cards too? I could understand wanting a dedicated sound card for music production, the extra connection options alone would make it worthwhile. I've seen the same sort of suspicious bullshit applied to sound cards as I have to cables "The sound card sways more"

 

[ViolentPanda]

Try the test and then tell me you couldn't hear a difference.

Are you on commission for the interconnects you keep punting?

E2A
I've taken part in blind tests before, Perhaps my hearing is crap, but I could never distinguish any difference, unlike the audiophiles on the panel.
Oddly, the audiophiles often attributed very different characteristics to the same item.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Are you on commission for the interconnects you keep punting?

E2A
I've taken part in blind tests before, Perhaps my hearing is crap, but I could never distinguish any difference, unlike the audiophiles on the panel.
Oddly, the audiophiles often attributed very different characteristics to the same item.

Don't forget that audiophiles often refuse to engage in blind tests. If they do engage in them and are shown up for the bullshit fountains they are they complain that the method of blind testing is flawed and a new method should be devised .

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Does audiophile bollocks extend to sound cards too? I could understand wanting a dedicated sound card for music production, the extra connection options alone would make it worthwhile. I've seen the same sort of suspicious bullshit applied to sound cards as I have to cables "The sound card sways more"

Soundcards are different because they all have such different features. You might be paying more for one with more inputs, more routing options, global or individual channel phantom power, insert points, multiple monitoring options etc etc Then you have the design of the microphone preamps, items that are deliberately designed to have their own sonic signature/quirks.

I've always taken the line that you should buy an interface because of the features it offers you first, then worry about any sonic issues it might have. Even when it comes to mic preamps in most budget to mid range gear the differences are so slight that you won't really hear them unless you have a bloody good pair of monitors in a well treated control room. Far better to have an extra input available to you so you don't have to faff about and break the vibe of a session than worry about harmonic distortion levels...

 

[audiotech]

Good quality A to D converters on a soundcard crucial?

 

[Meltingpot]

Up to a point, though my system's getting old now.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Soundcards are different because they all have such different features. You might be paying more for one with more inputs, more routing options, global or individual channel phantom power, insert points, multiple monitoring options etc etc Then you have the design of the microphone preamps, items that are deliberately designed to have their own sonic signature/quirks.

I've always taken the line that you should buy an interface because of the features it offers you first, then worry about any sonic issues it might have. Even when it comes to mic preamps in most budget to mid range gear the differences are so slight that you won't really hear them unless you have a bloody good pair of monitors in a well treated control room. Far better to have an extra input available to you so you don't have to faff about and break the vibe of a session than worry about harmonic distortion levels...

So no real point if you just listen to music and watch DVDs on your PC then?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Good quality A to D converters on a soundcard crucial?

Yeah, but unless you're a pro studio that can afford to buy whatever you want I'd still pick your interface on the basis of the features it offers you first.

If you're building a home studio you'll get far better results by learning about microphone placement, room acoustics and mixing techniques than you ever will by changing your interface.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

If you're building a home studio you'll get far better results by learning about microphone placement, room acoustics and mixing techniques than you ever will by changing your interface.

Exactly. By far the best tool (after recording) is eq. I think by learning about it and how to use it properly instead of just wiggling the knobs around thinking "I like middley sounds" or "lets make the bass really boom". I don't think I have ever really worried about what type of machine or program I have used beyond it doing the job. I have though in the past fooled myself into thinking a mix needed some sort of magic box or microphone which I have run off down the shops to buy. I have then later fixed the real problem with eq.
Mind you last year I did run off down the shops to buy a reverb unit just for a snare sound. I don't regret that.
I slightly regret it in that I have (apart from one session) only used computers since so it hasn't really earned it's keep (three records with nicer snare reverb than they would have had).

 

[ViolentPanda]

Don't forget that audiophiles often refuse to engage in blind tests. If they do engage in them and are shown up for the bullshit fountains they are they complain that the method of blind testing is flawed and a new method should be devised .

Yep, it's not them at fault, it's science and the scientific method.

 

[Fictionist]

Yep, it's not them at fault, it's science and the scientific method.

So. What system are you using VP?