Do we support Insulate Britain?

[platinumsage]

you don't need to knock someone out so their head hits the ground.

I didn't say you did, did I?

 

[Pickman's model]

I didn't say you did, did I?

you were using that as an extreme of violence and it's not. if i pushed you down and you struck your head on the pavement you could easily receive an injury as severe as being knocked out by a punch. the spectrum of force you propose doesn't in fact exist.

 

[kabbes]

It didn't though. It's the actual level of force used that is relevant, not what might have happened if the defendant had driven faster or the protester had been frail and become seriously injured. This should be obvious to you - it is foreseeable that hitting somebody in the head with a hand can cause serious life-altering injury, but giving someone a gentle slap is not treated the same as knocking someone out so that their head hits the ground.

There’s no such thing as a “gentle slap” when it comes to hitting somebody with a car. The moment you do that on purpose, you have automatically crossed the line into serious violence. If the person isn’t hurt, that’s pure luck.

 

[platinumsage]

There’s no such thing as a “gentle slap” when it comes to hitting somebody with a car. The moment you do that on purpose, you have automatically crossed the line into serious violence. If the person isn’t hurt, that’s pure luck.

Theres clearly a massive spectrum of levels of violence where the driver might be charged with assault but not with injuring the victim. This ranges from driving towards someone extremely slowly with no intent to actually make contact with them, through to driving at someone with such speed that they would inevitably die if hit and where they have little chance of taking avoiding action.

You may think that both of these constitute serious violence, but thankfully the legal system has a different view.

 

[kabbes]

A “nudge” is clearly on the side of “actually hit somebody” on that scale. It isn’t a threat of violence, it’s extant violence. It isn’t possible to hit a person with a car safely.

 

[platinumsage]

A “nudge” is clearly on the side of “actually hit somebody” on that scale. It isn’t a threat of violence, it’s extant violence.

Not “serious violence” though, when considered against the spectrum of assaults of varying seriousness.

 

[magneze]

Not “serious violence” though, when considered against the spectrum of assaults of varying seriousness.

Deliberately hitting someone with your car is serious violence, you twonk.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not “serious violence” though, when considered against the spectrum of assaults of varying seriousness.

you fucking plonker using a car as a weapon is serious violence.

 

[kabbes]

Not “serious violence” though, when considered against the spectrum of assaults of varying seriousness.

I honestly find this position astonishing and I don’t understand what you’re trying to argue for here. I am saying her actions were reprehensible and extremely dangerous, certainly as much as a person swinging a punch at somebody or aiming an iron bar at them. What are you saying? It was kind of okay really?

 

[platinumsage]

Deliberately hitting someone with your car is serious violence, you twonk.

Hitting and pushing aren’t the same thing.

I honestly find this position astonishing and I don’t understand what you’re trying to argue for here. I am saying her actions were reprehensible and extremely dangerous, certainly as much as a person swinging a punch at somebody or aiming an iron bar at them. What are you saying? It was kind of okay really?

If this incident was equivalent to twating someone with an iron bar the protester would be in hospital. The protester was pushed forwards while sitting down, which is why the driver was not charged with a more serious offence.

 

[Pickman's model]

If this incident was equivalent to twating someone with an iron bar the protester would be in hospital.

that doesn't follow

i know of someone who was dubbed a knight with an iron bar and the new knight never attended hospital

 

[liquidindian]

I wonder what other crimes are acceptable if you do them in a car. Ram raiding is just extreme shopping if you think about it.

 

[Pickman's model]

I wonder what other crimes are acceptable if you do them in a car. Ram raiding is just extreme shopping if you think about it.

out of hours shoplifting

 

[Cado]

They're just a group of assholes looking for a cause, rent-a-mob. Half the issues I don't even agree with. I take it for granted they're probably against the freedom to protest here therefore are doing everything in their power to ban themselves. They're doing something wierd in Glasgow today/yesterday because they want MORE immigrants in. Wouldn't be surprised if they all speak funny because they went to funny special schools.

 

[platinumsage]

Who said it was acceptable? I said it was assault in this case, but that not every incident where someone is touched by a car constitutes serious violence, and some such incidents may not even be regarded as assault.

 

[Pickman's model]

They're just a group of assholes looking for a cause, rent-a-mob. Half the issues I don't even agree with. I take it for granted they're probably against the freedom to protest here therefore are doing everything in their power to ban themselves. They're doing something wierd in Glasgow today/yesterday because they want MORE immigrants in. Wouldn't be surprised if they all speak funny because they went to funny special schools.

link pls for this glasgow thing

 

[Cado]

Extinction Rebellion activists block Home Office building in Glasgow

 

[Pickman's model]

Extinction Rebellion activists block Home Office building in Glasgow

there are two groups, one called extinction rebellion and the other called insulate britain. this is a thread about the latter.

 

[Cado]

There's a difference good for dyslexics then.

 

[magneze]

I wonder what other crimes are acceptable if you do them in a car. Ram raiding is just extreme shopping if you think about it.

Just do it slowly.

 

[magneze]

Who said it was acceptable? I said it was assault in this case, but that not every incident where someone is touched by a car constitutes serious violence, and some such incidents may not even be regarded as assault.

Touched by a car. I'm embarrassed for you.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

I bet it was bloody terrifying having an irate woman start driving her car into your back.

 

[liquidindian]

I do like this new game of starting with a crime and working backwards to find unusual circumstances that might make it acceptable. Can we do it with dropping a piano on someone's head next?

 

[Pickman's model]

I do like this new game of starting with a crime and working backwards to find ways that it might be acceptable. Can we do it with dropping a piano on someone's head next?

make it a synthesizer the sound set as a piano and we can start talking

 

[kabbes]

Who said it was acceptable? I said it was assault in this case, but that not every incident where someone is touched by a car constitutes serious violence, and some such incidents may not even be regarded as assault.

Word to the wise — you’re making yourself look more and more preposterous

 

[platinumsage]

Word to the wise — you’re making yourself look more and more preposterous

In this tiny niche here perhaps. But you won't find many people in the real world who would regard being uninjuredly bumped by a car traveling at less than walking speed as "serious violence".

 

[mojo pixy]

In this tiny niche here perhaps. But you find many people in the real world who would regard being uninjuredly bumped by a car traveling at less than walking speed as "serious violence".

No you're right. It's a bit like, say, being tapped - stroked even - with the blunt back edge of a knife. Not even a hint of violence, who would ever mind?

 

[platinumsage]

No you're right. It's a bit like, say, being tapped - stroked even - with the blunt back edge of a knife. Not even a hint of violence, who would ever mind?

Yeah there are no degrees of anything, for example if someone puts their hand your shoulder it's serious violence - no different from being stabbed.

 

[Pickman's model]

But you find many people in the real world who would regard being uninjuredly bumped by a car traveling at less than walking speed as "serious violence".

i'm pleased and surprised that you've changed your view

 

[mojo pixy]

Yeah there are no degrees of anything, for example if someone puts their hand your shoulder it's serious violence - no different from being stabbed.

I don't think you're making sufficient allowance for 'implicit threat level' .. or more importantly, for 'what's the worst that could happen if this goes wrong?'