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Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

This Months issue
What Is An mRNA Vaccine? Worldwide Freedom Rallies, Whatever Happened To Rock And Roll? Climate Change Fraud, What A Cashless Society Would Mean, Tanazanian President Dies, Colonel Gaddafi, Right Said Fred


Right Said Fred?
There's some classic tropes in there. Have you ever noticed how, whenever an anti-vaxxer talks to someone within the health system, it always turns out that the nutjob knows more than the person speaking to them, and this is always significant (even though I suspect that most of the time those conversations happen, the tinfoil hatter isn't even speaking to a clinician)?

Then they report, in a smug, self-satisfied way, how the person they were lecturing gratefully thanks them for their information (and, optionally, promises to dive down a maze of twisty YouTube passages, all alike, containing interminable videos). While what is probably actually happening is that the person on the other end is progressively backing away from the phone, and burbling placatory thanks, just to get the fruitloop off the line.
 

The headlines alone are insane enough :mad:

If I was to attempt to read the actual text of those 'articles the interior of my own head would fall out of my skull immediately :eek:

</sets up new publication called Drink Plenty of Beer Instead :p :D :thumbs: :beer: >
 
Dunno whether to put this here or on the “antivaxx nutcases” thread, there seem to be parallel discussions on both.

I’ve seen some people draw parallels with the current proliferation of conspiracy theories via social media platforms, to the explosion in pamphleteering in the 16th century after the Gutenberg printing press meant the king no longer had control of it.

It’s interesting to discover there were anti mask’ers in the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic too.

It’d take a bit of hunting back down but there’s a meme somewhere about conspiracy theorising about the covid19 pandemic not making one clever and special but being a common psychological coping mechanism. (Wonder if it’s on the fear mongering thread?)



But, TBF, it has been a great deal harder. When I was a kid, I helped out in a volunteering agency that ran off a couple of hundred copies of its newsletter on a Gestetner duplicator. It was a massive faff, messy, slow, and not particularly cheap. Compared to that, slinging a post up on FB where it could quite easily reach several thousand people is a very different proposition.
 
Has this been posted already?


I found it interesting.

Also read a bit last year about resistance to black out regulations in the UK, before the blitzes, in 1939. Also some stuff about the rise in certain crime rates in that period. Don't have links to hand but was interesting.
 
a skim read shows it has it all, EMF protection clothing for sale, climate change denial, and "our western zionist controlled democracies" as my cherry picking of the full house.
Which is useful when people will keep banging on about how social media is the reason why all this shit goes on today...
 
a skim read shows it has it all, EMF protection clothing for sale, climate change denial, and "our western zionist controlled democracies" as my cherry picking of the full house.

I'd really like to know what level of online readership this utterly shit paper 'The Light' has, and how widely distributed the printed version might be :mad:

I'd like a bit of reassurance that the figures are pretty low, because in established, scientifically-proven fact ;), anyone reading this paper's content and not challenging or dismissing everything they see, is 100% as thick as pigshit** :mad:

**Erm, thoroughly lacking in critical thinking skills, I meant there, obviously ;)
 
Posted elsewhere.

I have many contacts in India, and all bar none have told me that the MSM rhetoric on massive problems there is simply not true. And one is a Doctor.
Believe me if you wish, or disbelieve if you wish.
I am at the stage where I feel you either want to wake up or you don't.
It matters little to me anymore.
There are many video's and articles if you search social media, and if you don't have social media, here is just one to look at. And before anyone suggests SM is lies, if you think MSM are telling you the truth, you need to seriously leave the box you are in.

And, he posted this short video, that 'proves' the covid crisis in India is fake news.




It's worth watching for the LOLz, and to see how far this one has gone down the rabbit hole. :facepalm: :D
 
My over-riding feeling on watching that is one of sorrow tbh, I think he's either a bit vulnerable and/or not very well tbh (and clearly not that sharp either). Not that this excuses the nonsense he's peddling, but he has the air of a not very well person to me.

The poster didn't do the video, just posted it as 'evidence', because he has 'well researched' the subject.
 
The poster didn't do the video, just posted it as 'evidence', because he has 'well researched' the subject.

Ah, I see. I was referring to the bloke with the weird beard in the clip. Is the poster of that someone you know irl, or just came across it through anti-social media?
 
Ah, I see. I was referring to the bloke with the weird beard in the clip. Is the poster of that someone you know irl, or just came across it through anti-social media?

It's a 'new' poster on a pirate radio board, with a very similar posting style & lines as the looney mod, who has been posting nonsense for over a year.
 
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Dear urban, particularly LynnDoyleCooper , elbows , kabbes , existentialist or anyone else who might have such a resource:

I am coming up against a fairly significant amount of resistance to the vaccine among people I know in Italy: these are generally very smart people, but the vaccine suspicion, in part driven by AstraZeneca shit, and in part just general ignorance (I don't get a flu jab every year do I? So why should I get a covid vaccine?) and I am struggling with it. I emphasize the fact that everybody needs to be vaccinated otherwise the virus will continue to circulate and mutate and will eventually become vaccine-resistant, if it has a pool of non-vaccinated people to work with, but this isn't enough.

I would really appreciate it if you have any useful links, pamphlets, pdfs, whatever, preferably written in very layman's language type way, that I can use to try and convince people that they absolutely should get the vaccine when it is offered to them.

Thanks
 
Dear urban, particularly LynnDoyleCooper , elbows , kabbes , existentialist or anyone else who might have such a resource:

I am coming up against a fairly significant amount of resistance to the vaccine among people I know in Italy: these are generally very smart people, but the vaccine suspicion, in part driven by AstraZeneca shit, and in part just general ignorance (I don't get a flu jab every year do I? So why should I get a covid vaccine?) and I am struggling with it. I emphasize the fact that everybody needs to be vaccinated otherwise the virus will continue to circulate and mutate and will eventually become vaccine-resistant, if it has a pool of non-vaccinated people to work with, but this isn't enough.

I would really appreciate it if you have any useful links, pamphlets, pdfs, whatever, preferably written in very layman's language type way, that I can use to try and convince people that they absolutely should get the vaccine when it is offered to them.

Thanks

Here's a couple of links I've sent to people that were concerned about how quick the vaccines have been developed, 4 out of 5 decided to get the jab, one is still thinking about it.



HTH.
 
Dear urban, particularly LynnDoyleCooper , elbows , kabbes , existentialist or anyone else who might have such a resource:

I am coming up against a fairly significant amount of resistance to the vaccine among people I know in Italy: these are generally very smart people, but the vaccine suspicion, in part driven by AstraZeneca shit, and in part just general ignorance (I don't get a flu jab every year do I? So why should I get a covid vaccine?) and I am struggling with it. I emphasize the fact that everybody needs to be vaccinated otherwise the virus will continue to circulate and mutate and will eventually become vaccine-resistant, if it has a pool of non-vaccinated people to work with, but this isn't enough.

I would really appreciate it if you have any useful links, pamphlets, pdfs, whatever, preferably written in very layman's language type way, that I can use to try and convince people that they absolutely should get the vaccine when it is offered to them.

Thanks
It may just be that I've been worn down by all this denialism, but I think the best option, given that you obviously feel strongly that you want to say something, is perhaps to go for a more oblique approach.

What I might say in that situation is, "Fine, that must always be your choice. If this vaccine is going to make a difference, though, it is going to need a certain percentage of the population to have had it and be at least a bit immune. Let's hope that there are enough other people looking out for the good of everyone, not just themselves. eh?"

And not engage in any further discussion. If they are decent people, with active consciences, then maybe that will bring them up short and get them thinking. If they're not, then you're wasting your breath anyway, and no amount of information will budge them.
 
The biggest dickhead at work won’t take it. Think if you work with the public, especially with vulnerable people with health problems, then you should be forced to take it
 
Dear urban, particularly LynnDoyleCooper , elbows , kabbes , existentialist or anyone else who might have such a resource:

I am coming up against a fairly significant amount of resistance to the vaccine among people I know in Italy: these are generally very smart people, but the vaccine suspicion, in part driven by AstraZeneca shit, and in part just general ignorance (I don't get a flu jab every year do I? So why should I get a covid vaccine?) and I am struggling with it. I emphasize the fact that everybody needs to be vaccinated otherwise the virus will continue to circulate and mutate and will eventually become vaccine-resistant, if it has a pool of non-vaccinated people to work with, but this isn't enough.

I would really appreciate it if you have any useful links, pamphlets, pdfs, whatever, preferably written in very layman's language type way, that I can use to try and convince people that they absolutely should get the vaccine when it is offered to them.

Thanks

It's quite hard to know what to recommend tbh, what are their reasons? IME I think the reasons people give aren't usually the actual ones that they're actually concerned about. Or if they are they're slightly hidden under some other stuff they say. I've not had much success with giving people info, and I do think trying to 'out fact' them doesn't often work as what they're expressing is an emotional thing. What does seem to work better is trying to find out the underlying concerns they have and addressing them directly. If that makes sense?

A friend's parents who are Italian but living in the UK are also refusing the vaccine as well. Both are in their 80s and with high risk underlying health conditions.

Sorry, none of that is probably much help!
 
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The biggest dickhead at work won’t take it. Think if you work with the public, especially with vulnerable people with health problems, then you should be forced to take it

Yeah, I am slowly coming round to the idea that you should have to have it for health and social care jobs.

Back on topic for QAnon stuff, I saw a video clip the other day, a very short clip of some US soldiers training in the US doing some night time going into a tunnel and clearing it, shooting and moving about etc. Very obviously some Go-Pro footage from a random squaddie on a normal training exercise.

The comments were full of QAnon stuff about how they were rescuing the children, Trump's warrior angels, blessed by God, stuff about how someone has seen the stacked bodies of children killed under US cities, etc etc. Absolutely delusional stuff. Someone even commented that you could see a child's body on the video if you slowed it down. Which I did, and clearly you can see a cardboard target leaning against the wall.

Really quite high levels of something very weird and fucked up going on.
 
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Yeah, I am slowly coming round to the idea that you should have to have it for health and social care jobs.

As an aside and back on topic for QAnon, I saw a video clip the other day, a very short clip of some US soldiers training in the US doing some night time going into a tunnel and clearing it, shooting and moving about etc. Very obviously some Go-Pro footage from a random squaddie on a normal training exercise.

The comments were full of QAnon stuff about how they were rescuing the children, Trump's warrior angels, blessed by God, stuff about how someone has seen the stacked bodies of children killed under US cities, etc etc. Absolutely delusional stuff. Someone even commented that you could see a child's body on the video if you slowed it down. Which I did, and clearly you can see a cardboard target leaning against the wall.

Really quite high levels of something very weird and fucked up going on.
yes, and it takes encounters with it to truly sense it. here's another great example. see the comments.

now of course these anecdotal things prove nothing, but the mere encounter with it is baffling and worrying.
 
the bloke with the weird beard in the clip
Disaster fillum montage scene stuff. One could, at the risk of getting very annoyed, cobble 90 minutes of this type of loonery together and make a zero budget found footage zombie fillum or better yet a 10 series walking dead spinoff. How freaks wiped us out.
 
Dear urban, particularly LynnDoyleCooper , elbows , kabbes , existentialist or anyone else who might have such a resource:

I am coming up against a fairly significant amount of resistance to the vaccine among people I know in Italy: these are generally very smart people, but the vaccine suspicion, in part driven by AstraZeneca shit, and in part just general ignorance (I don't get a flu jab every year do I? So why should I get a covid vaccine?) and I am struggling with it. I emphasize the fact that everybody needs to be vaccinated otherwise the virus will continue to circulate and mutate and will eventually become vaccine-resistant, if it has a pool of non-vaccinated people to work with, but this isn't enough.

I would really appreciate it if you have any useful links, pamphlets, pdfs, whatever, preferably written in very layman's language type way, that I can use to try and convince people that they absolutely should get the vaccine when it is offered to them.

Thanks
I don't know whether this helps at all, may or may not be what you're looking for, but here's a short and very layman piece written by a US anarchist prisoner as an attempt to convince vaccine skeptics. Obviously whether you like his writing style or not is a matter of personal taste, but I suppose you're better placed to judge whether the people you're talking to might be sympathetic to it:

I know there’s a lot of controversy over the vaccine because they were fast-tracked. Probably there are reasonable and legitimate concerns about potential long-term effects that are currently unknowable. But my thinking on that goes like this…

A vaccine is a vaccine. There are only so many ways to develop a vaccine. There’s a process. And in the course of modern life, our scientists with big, big brains have developed hundreds of thousands or even millions of vaccines for things like Polio and Small Pox and even the mundane Flu that we normally face. We’ve had these vaccines, some of them, for more than half a century. None of those vaccines have caused widespread sterilization, or contained nanobot computer chips or delivered Satanic identifiers that work like a bar code for the times of revelations. I have no reason to believe that this vaccine is going to be any different in terms of it’s long term health impacts, than any of the other vaccines for other diseases. Vaccinated people have gotten pregnant, nanobot technology is really expensive and impractical, and if Satan were really that ambitious, Trump would have gotten a second term.

There are guys here at the prison, a few, who opted not to get the vaccine. That’s a matter of personal choice, I suppose. I question the wisdom of it.

Some of those guys tell me they believe that this mass vaccination of prisoners is to do biological testing on us. What that testing is, varies according to each prisoner. Some say those in power want to see how the vaccine works or doesn’t work on us, getting data on how many of us fall over dead. So far, that number at this prison appears to be zero, by the way, for any secret scientists keeping score at all.

Others claim this is an extension of a long history of experimenting on Black and brown bodies, going back to the Tuskegee Experiments, when government scientists isolated Black men and infected them with sexually transmitted diseases just to see how those diseases progressed. This included infecting those men with Syphilis, which causes neurological damage including dementia and even death. The US did this, something akin to what the Nazis had done.

And to be fair, this isn’t just the distant past. I did time with a guy named Dan Starkes at Mansfield, OH, in the 1990’s. He had served a sentence in Michigan where he was paid pretty well by prison standards for allowing pharmaceuticals to be tested on him. Last time I saw him, Dan was gaunt and hollow, riddled with cancer and wondering if years of pharmaceutical tests had been worth it.

No doubt, we are expendable as prisoners and the majority of us are Black or brown and there’s a long history of de-humanizing experiments on people of color. But even acknowledging that, I have to suspect that if those in power wanted to experiment on us, they’d just put stuff in our food or the cleaning chemicals we all use or pump it through the vents.

When someone tells me they really don’t know what’s in the vaccine, I remind them that they can’t identify what they just had for lunch. For all we know, we just had a main course of radio active isotopes, with a side order of Zyklon B. If you’re going to tell me you don’t know what’s in the vaccine, explain to me what’s in that bag of cheese puffs you’re eating.

I’m not saying I trust governments or large pharmaceutical companies, I just think they have easier and more practical ways of killing us that aren’t quite so conspicuous and don’t have the extraordinary danger of exposure and widespread blow-back.

And to the question of why they’re vaccinating prisoners so early in the roll out. Well, I suspect it’s not because they love us so much, it’s because they don’t want this disease bouncing around in this petri dish prison complex and then spilling back out. And they can get large numbers in a short time, which looks good for the politicians. That’s my thinking, anyhow.

Then I look at the main proponents of the anti-vaxer movement. Most of them are conservative, White men floating in the orbit of the Q-Anon conspiracy, believing that a nefarious group of satanic child molesters is carrying out a secret plot to ruin America. When I hear this, I’m convinced that the American public school system is what ruined America, by failing to teach these White conservatives how to think.

What I’m saying is, it appears that most of the anti-vax theories are originating from folks who have a particular agenda. As a matter of intellectual honesty, I have to dismiss their claims as just a lot of “White” noise.

Anyway, it’s two weeks since I got my second vaccine shot, my brain is still functioning as badly as it ever was, no erectile dysfunction (for anyone who wants to know). I haven’t felt the urge to shamble or bite anyone and the blood work from last week shows no significant change in my health status. I feel pretty nanobot free, I don’t regret choosing to get vaccinated.

In other news, the fairly decent antifascist podcast 12 Rules for What just did an interview with Annie Kelly from QAnon Anonymous:
 
While I was queuing up for the supermarket this afternoon an anti-lockdown, anti-mask, covid-is-a-scam protest marched past. I was surprised at myself how angry they made me.

They were shouting through megaphones that lockdown has made no difference (have they not been following the figures? I guess they think the figures are all made up), how wearing masks is an attack on our freedom (I scowled over my mask at them for that) and - the direct appeal to us public - "look at you! look at you queuing for the shop!" (as if queuing a few minutes for a shop is some terrible fate to be imposed up us). Most people shuffled uncomfortably, I stuck my middle finger up at the person shouting at me (probably not the wisest move when a crowd of obsessive weirdos are passing by, but better than shouting what I really thought at them).

Looking at them, I guess a fair few consider themselves to be liberal/left, but their conception of freedom - I wanna do what I wanna do, how dare you stop me - is pure Thatcherite freedom; me me me, no such thing as society, if it doesn't affect me, it doesn't exist, it's other people's fault or it's just moaning.

I think they make me angrier than proper Tories.
 
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