Diane Abbott suspended as Labour MP.

[belboid]

Andy McDonald has just been re-admitted. After four months, one over the maximum supposedly allowed by LP rules. Diane has been suspended for 11 months.

 

[Pickman's model]

Andy McDonald has just been re-admitted. After four months, one over the maximum supposedly allowed by LP rules. Diane has been suspended for 11 months.

And how long has jc been suspended for?

 

[belboid]

And how long has jc been suspended for?

hmm, it was 13 months, I think. He is now permanently excluded though.

 

[weltweit]

Bit rich Starmer defending Abbott?

 

[ID47]

And how long has jc been suspended for?

Think it was in 2020 but not sure what month.

 

[Calamity1971]

I wonder if shammer will stand an official Labour candidate v da. He'll be in for a hammering in Hackney North if he does

News reporting that it's looking likely she'll be back in like McDonald.

 

[Plumdaff]

Is it cynical to think that if she is readmitted it's only because of these recent events and the light it throws on Labour's hypocrisy and hierarchy of racism?

 

[oryx]

Is it cynical to think that if she is readmitted it's only because of these recent events and the light it throws on Labour's hypocrisy and hierarchy of racism?

No, not one bit!

 

[brogdale]

Following the Cox and Amess murders it does appear somewhat desperate of the vermin to hang on to the cash from someone calling for an MP to be shot. I'd think that blows pob's extremism definition out of the water?

and here we have it from the pob's mouth:


racist who calls for the murder of an MP - not extremist, because not a "consistent pattern of behaviour" & he said sorree.

Whereas folk who yearn for a better society with no need for Goves or their racist backers - (official) extremists.

 

[ska invita]

The excuse of "it was different times" seems to be getting rather truncated at this point. Way they're going if someone says a racism at the start of Newsnight it might not be a racism by the end.

Ah but who can ever forget those heady days of five years ago.... the fields.... the spirit of freedom...it was a complicated time but by god was it good to be alive

It makes you want to hate all rich white people. </s>

it makes me want to shoot tory donors

 

[Pickman's model]

it makes me want to shoot tory donors

shooting's too good for them

 

[nightowl]

Ah but who can ever forget those heady days of five years ago.... the fields.... the spirit of freedom...it was a complicated time but by god was it good to be alive


it makes me want to shoot tory donors

You could probably buy your guns off a few of them.

 

[Pickman's model]

You could probably buy your guns off a few of them.

Buy?

 

[Pickman's model]

it makes me want to shoot tory donors

 

[skyscraper101]

I'm no fan of Abbott, she herself has been known to make dodgy comments on race on more than one occasion. But I will caveat that she has undoubtedly suffered some of the worst race fueled hate over the years of any MP and for this she has my total sympathy. Frank Hester's comments are appalling as are all the squirming Tory apologists like Gove on BBC Breakfast this morning.

As for Hoyle, you'd have thought he'd be pretty cognisant of his reputation of late, but he's looking more and more like he's in the pocket of Labour now. What a shambles all round.

 

[likesfish]

You could probably buy your guns off a few of them.

yeah but you'd actually want something that has a chance to go bang rather than whatever overpriced crap BAE promise to deliver that turns up so long after you decided on class war and revolution you've got so bored you decided the liberal Democrats sound like a good idea

 

[ska invita]

The new Christian Forgiveness excuse wheeled out by Gove is a clever one, I wonder how many times that can be played before it gets old....We are a Christian Country and Jesus practiced Forgiveness...if you dont like it MOVE TO RUSSIA

 

[Sue]

But I will caveat that she has undoubtedly suffered some of the worst race fueled hate over the years of any MP and for this she has my total sympathy.

Let's not forget the misogyny double whammy.

Uppity black woman not knowing her place etc.

 

[kabbes]

Diane Abbott has not, to my knowledge, expressed any “dodgy comments on race”. She has certainly expressed comments that are based on nuanced and complex arguments that she has presented poorly, and which have been triumphantly misrepresented by the right-wing press. But clumsy phrasing and a naive exposure to misrepresentation doesn’t make them “dodgy”.

 

[likesfish]

I'm sorry but West Indian mothers would go to the wall for their children” while defending sending her kids to private school which is a bit meh considering labour controlled her local council.
not that she alone with being a hypocrite or talking absolute bollocks

doesn't mean she deserves the hate compain and its rather embarrassing that she'd didn't get to speak yesterday in parliment

 

[Petcha]

Diane Abbott has not, to my knowledge, expressed any “dodgy comments on race”. She has certainly expressed comments that are based on nuanced and complex arguments that she has presented poorly, and which have been triumphantly misrepresented by the right-wing press. But clumsy phrasing and a naive exposure to misrepresentation doesn’t make them “dodgy”.

I agree with this. She's an absolutely terrible communicator unfortunately but not stupid and her heart's in the right place. Just has a habit of phrasing things really badly and gets facts wrong quite a lot on TV/radio. Which is painful to watch.

What this cunt has done though, Hester that is, must be scaring the shit out of her and he should be arrested. I live in her area and yeh, she's always around. On the buses as she says, in the greasy spoon. She must be scared. What an absolute bastard. And why wasn't this reported at the time?

 

[skyscraper101]

And the stuff about 'white people' playing divide and rule (which she later backtracked on). Or the stuff about blonde Finnish girls being unsuitable as nurses in Hackney because they'd never met a black person.

I'm not calling her a racist but clumsy is being very generous. A white person generalising about 'black people' like this would definitely be in dodgy comments territory for me.

 

[Silas Loom]

And the stuff about 'white people' playing divide and rule (which she later backtracked on). Or the stuff about blonde Finnish girls being unsuitable as nurses in Hackney because they'd never met a black person.

I'm not calling her a racist but clumsy is being very generous. A white person generalising about 'black people' like this would definitely be in dodgy comments territory for me.

Not really possible for a letter unrepresentative of one’s actual views to be written and then sent to the Observer in a sudden fit of clumsiness. She gets a lot of disgraceful and underserved abuse, for which she deserves some leeway as well as sympathy, but she shouldn’t be a Labour MP any more.

 

[likesfish]

I agree with this. She's an absolutely terrible communicator unfortunately but not stupid and her heart's in the right place. Just has a habit of phrasing things really badly and gets facts wrong quite a lot on TV/radio. Which is painful to watch.

What this cunt has done though, Hester that is, must be scaring the shit out of her and he should be arrested. I live in her area and yeh, she's always around. On the buses as she says, in the greasy spoon. She must be scared. What an absolute bastard. And why wasn't this reported at the time?

because it was a private meeting and made public later for point scoring. Not to defend theracist scumbag but the comments weren't meant for the public if only because said scumbag knew they'd be unacceptable and explaining yourself to the police is always uncomfatable. most of Abbot's bollocks was in public not than any other MP doesn't come out with utter tripe 30p Lee for istance? or Lord Bassam minister for the internet laughing when asked about cookies etc etc.

 

[kabbes]

Not really possible for a letter unrepresentative of one’s actual views to be written and then sent to the Observer in a sudden fit of clumsiness.

What in that article would you characterise as being dodgy comment about race? She was drawing upon a well-established discourse about multiple racisms, and the way these are qualitatively different phenomena. Nothing dodgy there. Her phrasing was pretty rubbish, which left her wide open to misrepresentation. But the ideas she was drawing from, for those who recognised them, are pretty mainstream sociological analysis.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What in that article would you characterise as being dodgy comment about race? She was drawing upon a well-established discourse about multiple racisms, and the way these are qualitatively different phenomena. Nothing dodgy there. Her phrasing was pretty rubbish, which left her wide open to misrepresentation. But the ideas she was drawing from, for those who recognised them, are pretty mainstream sociological analysis.

She does have form, though. The Finnish nurses thing was back in 1996, but it was a very, very rubbish thing to say. It's very hard to see how her comments on Finnish nurses never having touched a black person before are not racist. When a Tory is pointing out your crass use of racial stereotypes, you know you've taken a wrong turn somewhere.

MP Diane in `race' rant at white nurses. - Free Online Library

I think Abbott has had to put up with a tonne of racist shit over the years, but she doesn't help herself.

 

[Silas Loom]

What in that article would you characterise as being dodgy comment about race? She was drawing upon a well-established discourse about multiple racisms, and the way these are qualitatively different phenomena. Nothing dodgy there. Her phrasing was pretty rubbish, which left her wide open to misrepresentation. But the ideas she was drawing from, for those who recognised them, are pretty mainstream sociological analysis.

I am deeply unhappy with definitions of racism that exclude antisemitism or antiziganism. I am very unsympathetic to proposed hierarchies of racism, which are always going to cherry-pick the contexts on which they depend. And even in the limited and specific sense that some ethnocultural minorities are more visible than others, I am uncomfortable with the notion that “passing” is straightforwardly a boon. So if that’s what mainstream sociological analysis is up to these days, you can keep it.

Abbott’s characterisation of these arguments was egregiously dismissive of “white” experiences of racism. She could maybe have found a way to dog-whistle or finesse her Observer piece, and got away with it. But I don’t think she was misrepresented. “Dodgy” is comradely understatement.

 

[andysays]

Diane Abbott has not, to my knowledge, expressed any “dodgy comments on race”. She has certainly expressed comments that are based on nuanced and complex arguments that she has presented poorly, and which have been triumphantly misrepresented by the right-wing press. But clumsy phrasing and a naive exposure to misrepresentation doesn’t make them “dodgy”.

This has already been discussed at length earlier on the thread. I see that you didn't comment until page 28, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and consider that you might perhaps not have read the whole thread.

If not, I suggest you go back and read it now, and then you might be better aware of the comments which many people consider dodgy. It may be that there are nuanced and complex arguments that could be made and that there's a well-established discourse about multiple racisms and the way these are qualitatively different phenomena, but we're discussing Abbot's actual comments, both the one which originally prompted her suspension from the Labour party and those which she has made in the past.

For you to simply dismiss these comments, and the discussion about why they are racist, in the way you appear to be doing by saying you're not aware of them comes across as pretty shitty, TBH.

 

[Silas Loom]

It doesn’t come across as shitty to me at all tbh. Legitimate discussion on a topic where everyone should take the opportunity to reexamine their own views from time to time.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I am opposed to hierarchies of racism is quite an unnecessarily wordy way of saying All Lives Matter isn't it.