David Goodhart in The Guardian - attacking British Somalis?

[JimW]

Not specifically related to anyone here but it does seem that most people have very little idea what being an Asylum seeker actually entails - there really aren't many of them. Looked it up a while back and it was something like 0.04% of the population. Immigration of other sorts is completely different.

Yep, another link that came up when I searched prompted by your post was this: http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/migration-uk-asylum which has all sorts of facts and figures. See UK takes fewer than the European average too, besides the overall number being a tiny proportion of population.

 

[sihhi]

Interesting factoid about Somalis in Britain.
A hundred Somalis part of a tribal occupied by/supporting the British as British Somaliland were 'hired' as display beings on a tour of British cities to promote empire and empire goods.

The tour in 1904-5 at the Bradford Exhibition of 1904 where a village had been built where they lived and did farming. A hand coloured postcard colour printing was very hard at the time.

They were kept away from other contact with ordinary people outside of their own so that people would pay to see them. One person who paid to see the exhibition had bought a post card but written 'I do not care for them'. Link here

 

[treelover]

Imo, one of the worst mistakes the far left, especially the SWP made was conflating asylum seekers with economic migrants, both can have valid defences, but they are different.

 

[Idris2002]

Interesting factoid about Somalis in Britain.
A hundred Somalis part of a tribal occupied by/supporting the British as British Somaliland were 'hired' as display beings on a tour of British cities to promote empire and empire goods.

The tour in 1904-5 at the Bradford Exhibition of 1904 where a village had been built where they lived and did farming. A hand coloured postcard colour printing was very hard at the time.


They were kept away from other contact with ordinary people outside of their own so that people would pay to see them. One person who paid to see the exhibition had bought a post card but written 'I do not care for them'. Link here

There was also a Somali village in Dublin around the same time, and for the same purpose. Exhibiting "exotic" peoples as if they were zoo animals was quite a common thing in those days.

 

[kenny g]

This is David Goodhart left-liberal editor of pro-Miliband Progress:



http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/mar/27/why-left-wrong-mass-immigration

What exactly is Goodhart arguing here? Is he saying that more Somalis should be deported?
He is wrong in claiming that just any Somali can make a claim and get welcomed into Britain, you need to prove a severe repeat pattern of (usually clan-based or anti-minority) intimidation and violence before you are accepted on any terms.

I have a new plan. How about people in the public eye or with such worthwhile roles as editorship of policy wank mags be subject to a right to remain in the UK test. if thought appropriate they are rapidly deported to Somalia to assist with nation building. I have someone in mind as the first candidate.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Has anyone read Goodhart's book? (The British Dream: Successes And Failures of Post-War Immigration).

I felt obliged to, because I went to a debate between him and Daniel Trilling (previously of New Statesman, now editor of New Humanist, wrote a book about the BNP). It was "chaired" by Sunny Hundal who was unbelievably smug and hectoring, to the point where Goodhart was barely given the opportunity to say where he was coming from.

I guess it's refreshing to see a self-styled liberal tackling these issues, but it is quite a strange book. He has an OK critique of multiculturalism, but seems to think the solution to segregation is forging a new "national identity" a la Billy Bragg. (He doesn't seem to like working class culture - refers to afro-caribbeans integrating into the "rough end of working class culture" in the sixties).

Also a "national service" based on civic duty for young people, compulsory English lessons with a "student loan" type of repayment. He wants the royal family to be "modernised".

He is big on quotas. Quotas for immigration, quotas for ethnic minorities in schools (but won't go as far as saying that faith schools should be scrapped). And quotas for ethnic minorities on housing estates.

There is a mental bit at the end where he maps out a fictional "best option" plan for the next 20 years which includes David Lammy becoming Mayor of London, the first black prime minister in 2025 and crap pop star Ed Sheeran's conversion to Islam helping to normalise it for young people.

There is a negative review of the book (and subsequent exchange of letters) here
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n12/jonathan-portes/an-exercise-in-scapegoating

If anyone wants my copy, they can have it...

 

[butchersapron]

Good series of posts and counter-posts between him and Kenan Malik a bit back. I think this one should do all the links.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Good series of posts and counter-posts between him and Kenan Malik a bit back. I think this one should do all the links.

Ah good, that sounds like exactly what's needed here.

 

[Wilf]

Yes, dear

I've noticed you are rarely able to come back with anything substantive after you launch your provacative initial post in these discussions. It's become your MO.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

One of the reasons I found it hard to read the book was that some of it was balls, another was this song going round and round in my head:

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Oh yes I also forgot - there is a bonkers passage in there were he says that racism is no longer an issue in selecting candidates for jobs, it's just that people prefer to hire people who are very similar to them, including culturally and by skin colour.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Good series of posts and counter-posts between him and Kenan Malik a bit back. I think this one should do all the links.

That entry and what it links to is all great. It omits this piece, which is even greaterer:

there is more than one way to skin a community

Clearly I should have spent the time I wasted ploughing through the Goodhart book with reading Kenan Malik...

I'll shut up now.

 

[likesfish]

Not sure somali could cope with the economic burden of supporting guardian writers who spout ill formed bollocks and who expect society to support their cultural needs, ethnic restaurents east european nannies and tradesmen to exploit, arthouse cinemas and other demands.

 

[redsquirrel]

There is a mental bit at the end where he maps out a fictional "best option" plan for the next 20 years which includes David Lammy becoming Mayor of London, the first black prime minister in 2025 and crap pop star Ed Sheeran's conversion to Islam helping to normalise it for young people.

Brilliant, I might have to check it out just for this.

 

[butchersapron]

That's fantastic - imagaine the power ed sheeran could have wielded over the youth during the riots.

 

[dylanredefined]

This is David Goodhart left-liberal editor of pro-Miliband Progress:



http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/mar/27/why-left-wrong-mass-immigration

What exactly is Goodhart arguing here? Is he saying that more Somalis should be deported?
He is wrong in claiming that just any Somali can make a claim and get welcomed into Britain, you need to prove a severe repeat pattern of (usually clan-based or anti-minority) intimidation and violence before you are accepted on any terms.

At a guess? He wants he wants the west to be less appealing to immigrants short of making those countries less disaster prone richer and generally not full of war and being run by arseholes. Its not going to happen.