Athos
Well-Known Member
Which isn't an end in itself (see STWC). I think we might need to agree to disagree, as we're beginning to go round in circles.
Dance troupe Diversity's Black Lives Matter performance receives 24,000 complaints
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Athos
Well-Known Member
Nobody is suggesting that, though. Merely that, whilst the movement is a positive thing, it does have some weaknesses. One is that it's name, whilst having some advantages, offers an easy opportunity for those who want to mischaracterise it.
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Understanding the limitations of what can be communicated through any three word phrase is not the same thing as saying that there aren’t success measures for that three word phrase. The point of a slogan isn’t to be the strategy, it’s just to gather people together under an idea. That’s the way you judge its success or not.
Athos
Well-Known Member
As I said, we can agree to disagree.
Athos
Well-Known Member
No. Its what people say when they realise they're going round and round. Of course it's a success when you choose a measure of success it fulfils rather than one it doesn't (and overlook unintended negative consequences and the possibility that other slogans might have fared equally well).
Athos
Well-Known Member
Maybe Black Lives Matter should change their slogan to 'Lets Agree To Disagree' - something everyone could get behind.
Dude, you're happy to go round and round for days - weeks - on end. It's your 'thing'.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Ofcom To Recycle All 24,000 BGT Complaints Into Gammon Angerw*nk Tissues
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Athos
Well-Known Member
Not today, you'll be disappointed to learn - things to do. In any event, the point i.e. that the name/slogan has disadvantages - that it has been the focus of pushback against the movement is undeniable - has been made, there's not really much to add.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I'm glad I continue to please you.
ska invita
back on the other side
No, it's not that, it's that racists wouldn't have a problem with it, wouldnt have called in to ITV, and wouldn't feel like it was an attack on white racism. Obvs.
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Athos
Well-Known Member
It's not that black and white (pun intended). There's loads of white working class people who aren't racist but who have come to believe that BLM isn't for them. Which is a shame, and something that a different name might have avoided.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Yep. I really gotta go, now.
8ball
1,200 lights
Hard to say what would have happened otherwise. It’s certainly a punchy name. (“Punchy” in a good sense)
Regardless of name, it would have been attacked hard as soon as it was seen to be gaining traction.
ska invita
back on the other side
I understand the point. It's pretty much disproven though by the historic, huge amount of white solidarity BLM has inspired, and the mainstreaming into Saturday night entertainment programs.
If there are "white working class people who aren't racist but who have come to believe that BLM isn't for them" that does need digging in to. Just as it does with why socialist politics in general aren't for them. IMO the name BLM is bottom of the list of reasons, just behind Corbyns cut of suit.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
BLM is a brilliant slogan. The fact it has made some people uncomfortable is one of its strengths. It's supposed to be a challenge to the world, in the manner of Primo Levi's If this is a man. They're not organising a village fete.
On the original topic of this thread I am going to for what it's worth completely agree with you and I this discussion really has changed my mind. I still have reservations about the whole movement because of what people have said much more cogently than me, racism is such a huge topic that we also need to be careful in fighting against it not to misstep. But to put a piece of performance art like that on television when they know that it is going to upset people is something that I am 100% behind. People should be upset that we live in racist countries, we all suffer because of it
Athos
Well-Known Member
It certainly has the support of white liberals (who control ITV's output), but disappointing levels of support amongst non-racist white working class people (particularly outside London), in my experience. From speaking to people, I know many are put off (in part at least) by the name (or, more accurately, what the right have been able to suggest the name means). But I agree that's not the biggest issue; I've never thought that - I wouldn't die in a ditch over changing the name. I think a much bigger issue is how tied up it is with ideas like white privilege. That's a useful concept when applied thoughtfully, but many working class people understandably bristle at being told they're privileged by middle class liberals.
Well for me personally the big reservation that I have about it is that there are just not that many black people where I came from. Lots of Indians and Pakistanis and quite a few Chinese and Europeans, but we were too poor to get black people.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Possibly some of them are. Others aren't, but maybe they're are naive/gullible/ignorant. There's certainly plenty of them.
SlideshowBob
Active Member
Indeed, a lot of people like the abstract idea of tackling racial inequality but quickly seem to become offended or uncomfortable when they're actually confronted with the impact of it in a direct and visceral way.
That is facile though. yes the world is full of morons and wankers and whiners, that doesn't have any meaning.
What is interesting is that this piece of performance art about racism was broadcasted on public television and generated a load of complaints., probably more positivity.
But there is a sentiment that is interesting about how people are offended by it even though they don't think that they are racist.
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