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COVID-19 in America

frogwoman said:


How the fuck does this end up happening? :(
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Human nature, and our tenuous relationships with reality. Sometimes, for all of us, the cognitive dissonance between a firmly held opinion and Actual(tm) Reality comes down on the wrong side. Hopefully, not usually in life-critical situations, but there are no guarantees.

The only cure is better critical thinking skills, and I suspect the US education system is worse even than the UK's at developing those.
 
SheilaNaGig said:
A sobering report from Mississippi

www.mississippifreepress.org

After Big Thanksgiving Dinners, Plan Small Christmas Funerals, Health Experts Warn

Mississippians should plan “to have very small Thanksgiving gatherings” with only nuclear family members this year to stay safe amid the COVID-19 pandemic, Mississippi State Health Officer Dr. Thomas Dobbs and other public health officials warned on Friday.
www.mississippifreepress.org www.mississippifreepress.org
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well at least that's honest. Let's hope people take notice.
 
One of the many fucked up things about this is that because the USA is now a suppurating quagmire for the virus, there is less chance we can collectively get ahead of the numbers next year. Because Trump has not allowed even the most basic levels of caution and attention, the entire world is at greater risk of further sweeping Covid waves next year.
 
SheilaNaGig said:
One of the many fucked up things about this is that because the USA is now a suppurating quagmire for the virus, there is less chance we can collectively get ahead of the numbers next year. Because Trump has not allowed even the most basic levels of caution and attention, the entire world is at greater risk of further sweeping Covid waves next year.
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Europe hasn't done much that would create the impression that suppression of the virus will happen in that way in future. Compared to the USA, by relaxing things more slowly European countries avoided the early summer resurgence that some parts of the USA saw, but they havent avoided a massive autumn second wave so I dont feel like singling the USA out in that way at this stage.
 
Yes I dont blame you for being angry about it. I am angry too, but am also angry about the way countries in Europe failed to learn all the lessons from the first time round, and found it easier to ignore some of them so far this time in ways they couldnt when everything happened more quickly in March. Both governments and sections of the public are not responding well without the effects of that early shock of the first wave arriving and requiring drastic action.

I suppose in some senses I'd rather judge individual states, and as I mentioned on the worldwide thread earlier, New York is closing its schools, a move countries in Europe have tended to resist this time around.

A letter from New York City Schools Chancellor Richard Carranza released on Wednesday informed parents that all schools would close and classrooms would immediately shift to online learning "until further notice".

"You will hear from your principal shortly about next steps for you and your student. Please note that this is a temporary closure, and school buildings will reopen as soon as it is safe to do so."

The move comes only eight weeks after the school system reopened to students. It is the latest city to close school and shift to online learning after Boston and Detroit, with Las Vegas and Philadelphia delaying plans to return pupils to classrooms.
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www.bbc.co.uk

Covid: US records quarter of a million deaths from coronavirus

America has a higher death toll and more coronavirus infections than any other country.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Interesting approach in NYC. With another surge in cases they've decided to close the schools but keep large sectors of the economy open to one degree or another. I will take a close interest in this because for a long time now I've been bemoaning the UK / European approach to keeping education open at the cost of large swathes of the economy when it seems fairly obvious to me that is where a massive part of the problem is.

I may be proven to be completely wrong but its always felt to me that a few weeks off school (call it a firebreak or whatever) is far less damaging to a child then the long term economic factors of shutting most of your economy down. As people continue to lose jobs and livelihoods more children will go hungry, more families will be caught in a cycle of debt that will last for generations. More kids will grow up in homes where the parents mental health has deteriorated significantly. I know from experience that the mental health deterioration of my mother during my childhood has had a far more profound effect on my life than any few weeks at school.

In addition to the above I'm utterly convinced that the vast majority of the problem was and is in the schools and uni's anyway. It may be different in different areas but from what I've seen, heard and read I'm convinced it's the case for my local area.

We'll see what happens in NYC. Happy to be proven wrong.
 
Teaboy said:
Interesting approach in NYC. With another surge in cases they've decided to close the schools but keep large sectors of the economy open to one degree or another. I will take a close interest in this because for a long time now I've been bemoaning the UK / European approach to keeping education open at the cost of large swathes of the economy when it seems fairly obvious to me that is where a massive part of the problem is.

I may be proven to be completely wrong but its always felt to me that a few weeks off school (call it a firebreak or whatever) is far less damaging to a child then the long term economic factors of shutting most of your economy down. As people continue to lose jobs and livelihoods more children will go hungry, more families will be caught in a cycle of debt that will last for generations. More kids will grow up in homes where the parents mental health has deteriorated significantly. I know from experience that the mental health deterioration of my mother during my childhood has had a far more profound effect on my life than any few weeks at school.

In addition to the above I'm utterly convinced that the vast majority of the problem was and is in the schools and uni's anyway. It may be different in different areas but from what I've seen, heard and read I'm convinced it's the case for my local area.

We'll see what happens in NYC. Happy to be proven wrong.
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I think similarly...but then you get east asian countries who are managing it all, so maybe its not about the trade off between schools and shops at all, but something else
 
ska invita said:
I think similarly...but then you get east asian countries who are managing it all, so maybe its not about the trade off between schools and shops at all, but something else
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Of course but at this stage of the pandemic its not a very useful comparison whereas UK and US is a much better one. We've done the whole ah but what about Korea and New Zealand thing to death.
 
ska invita said:
I think similarly...but then you get east asian countries who are managing it all, so maybe its not about the trade off between schools and shops at all, but something else
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South Korea at least still has school closures to some extent. My friend has a much younger brother (early teens) who is currently off... iirc they had some complete closures towards the start of this semester, and are now cycling attendance to keep overall numbers at school safe.

e2a: their case numbers are rising (though still in the low hundreds) so kind of expect they will bring in some additional measures soon.
 
After months of abuse, threats, and people following her to the park and taking pictures of her kids, a county health director in rural Missouri has handed in her notice.

Every time you get on the phone, you’re hoping you don’t get cussed at. Probably half of the people we call are skeptical or combative. They refuse to talk. They deny their own positive test results. They hang up. They say they’re going to hire a lawyer. They give you fake people they’ve spent time with and fake numbers. They lie and tell you they’re quarantining alone at home, but then in the background you can hear the beeping of a scanner at Walmart.
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Our medical providers were at the meeting in their white coats, and three of them stood up to speak on behalf of masks. These are doctors and nurses who risk their lives to treat this virus. They are shouldering the burden of this, but the crowd wouldn’t even let them talk. They booed. They yelled. Some of them had come in with guns. They were so disrespectful. I was trying to take notes for our board, and my hands started shaking. Why aren’t you listening? Why do you refuse to hear from the people who actually know about this disease and how it spreads?
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This makes grim reading, and where's Donald the Lame Duck, oh yeah, playing golf. :facepalm:

Covid-19 is running unabated across almost every American community, and one model projects it will take the country just under two months to reach a staggering 20 million cases.

The US could nearly double its current numbers -- about 12.4 million reported infections -- by January 20, according to the Washington University in St. Louis forecasting model.

The prediction comes as Covid-19 cases and hospitalizations nationwide are exploding, with more than 3.1 million infections reported in the US since the start of November -- the most reported in a single month ever.
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Hospitalizations are at harrowing highs, with more than 85,800 hospitalized Covid-19 patients in the US, another record set for the 14th day in a row, according to the COVID Tracking Project.

In California, hospitalizations climbed by 77% over the past 2 weeks, while ICU admissions were up 55%. Ohio hospitalizations increased at least 59% over two weeks, the governor said, adding the state currently has the most ICU patients since the pandemic's start. Pennsylvania's top health official warned Monday the state could run out of ICU beds within a week.

Some experts have predicted that health care workers -- already overwhelmed and exhausted -- could soon be faced with difficult decisions of rationing care as hospitals reach capacity.
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edition.cnn.com

US sets record for Covid-19 hospitalizations amid fall surge

There are 88,080 people currently hospitalized with Covid-19, setting a record for hospitalizations amid a continuing fall surge, according to the Covid Tracking Project.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com
 
Ted Cruz pours fuel on the flames.

We reported earlier that despite warnings against travel during the current severe coronavirus outbreak, millions of Americans are flying across the US for Thanksgiving on Thursday.

Now Texas Senator Ted Cruz has caused controversy by suggesting Americans should flout health officials' advice to celebrate virtually with families instead of in-person. The Republican tweeted a picture of a turkey with the words "come and take it", adding "we’re not willing to give up Thanksgiving. Wait till they find out we won't give up Christmas either".

In Texas, morgues in the state become overwhelmed with bodies, and huge queues have formed at food banks following the economic fall-out of the pandemic.
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From the 15:32 entry of https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-55055295
 
Teaboy said:
Interesting approach in NYC. With another surge in cases they've decided to close the schools but keep large sectors of the economy open to one degree or another. I will take a close interest in this because for a long time now I've been bemoaning the UK / European approach to keeping education open at the cost of large swathes of the economy when it seems fairly obvious to me that is where a massive part of the problem is.

I may be proven to be completely wrong but its always felt to me that a few weeks off school (call it a firebreak or whatever) is far less damaging to a child then the long term economic factors of shutting most of your economy down. As people continue to lose jobs and livelihoods more children will go hungry, more families will be caught in a cycle of debt that will last for generations. More kids will grow up in homes where the parents mental health has deteriorated significantly. I know from experience that the mental health deterioration of my mother during my childhood has had a far more profound effect on my life than any few weeks at school.

In addition to the above I'm utterly convinced that the vast majority of the problem was and is in the schools and uni's anyway. It may be different in different areas but from what I've seen, heard and read I'm convinced it's the case for my local area.

We'll see what happens in NYC. Happy to be proven wrong.
Click to expand...

Closing schools doesn't just mean closing schools, though. It means many parents having to take time off work, and in the US that often means they won't get paid. Not everyone can work from home, and working from home while also looking after your children is really, really fucking hard. There are reasons that most parents were desperate for schools to open, and it's not that they don't believe in covid or don't like their kids.

Being off school and not seeing your peers for weeks and weeks is pretty damaging to many children. It's not like they're off school and going out seeing friends, going to museums and libraries instead, doing fun things. They're mostly at home, on screens, isolated from their peers, 24/7, except for going for a walk, like they're dogs.

Working class people will be affected more, because although some well-paid jobs also can't be done from home, they're more likely to be able to afford paid childcare, which is still allowed. Women will be affected more because more single parents are female. So when the concern is people losing their jobs, that will still happen, it will just affect poorer people and women more.

Closing schools cannot be viewed a simply "closing schools." It has far wider effects.
 
Tankus said:


Christ
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I think part of the reason that so many people want to travel is that Americans get so little time off. When you get it, you have to use it to keep in touch with extended family or you never see them. I tried staying home and not visiting my 84-year-old mother, and she started having more and more memory issues the longer she was alone. Its a no win choice.
 
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scifisam said:
Closing schools doesn't just mean closing schools, though. It means many parents having to take time off work, and in the US that often means they won't get paid. Not everyone can work from home, and working from home while also looking after your children is really, really fucking hard. There are reasons that most parents were desperate for schools to open, and it's not that they don't believe in covid or don't like their kids.

Being off school and not seeing your peers for weeks and weeks is pretty damaging to many children. It's not like they're off school and going out seeing friends, going to museums and libraries instead, doing fun things. They're mostly at home, on screens, isolated from their peers, 24/7, except for going for a walk, like they're dogs.

Working class people will be affected more, because although some well-paid jobs also can't be done from home, they're more likely to be able to afford paid childcare, which is still allowed. Women will be affected more because more single parents are female. So when the concern is people losing their jobs, that will still happen, it will just affect poorer people and women more.

Closing schools cannot be viewed a simply "closing schools." It has far wider effects.
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I know all this and agree. There is no ideal situation at all and its not like closing schools is some flippant thing to do on a whim. It remains my belief that because of the chronic situation in the schools it would be better in the long run to break that cycle. No one wants to see children not at schools but it is my belief that the long term economic destruction (and therefore damage to lives in the short term and for generations to come) will be far that the pain of short fire break in the schools.

It would have also saved a lot more lives in the short term.

Its of interest on this thread because that's what appears to have happened in NYC for one reason or another.
 
Religion, eh?

The U.S. Supreme Court issued an injunction late Wednesday blocking New York’s governor from enforcing 10- and 25-person occupancy limits on religious institutions, granting a request from the Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn and Agudath Israel.

The state had told the court there was no need to act because the restrictions, which were adopted as a way to try to prevent the spread of the coronavirus, had recently been dialed back.
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www.nbcnews.com

Supreme Court blocks NY from enforcing Covid limits on churches

The court said the restrictions violate religious freedom and are not neutral because they “single out houses of worship."
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
I posted this on the US election thread, but guess it should be here too.


In stark contrast to the Thanksgiving message by the incoming president Joe Biden, who called for a scaling down of the celebration, the outgoing president Donald Trump has called in a proclamation for Americans to “gather” for the holiday. The final line of the annual Thanksgiving proclamation, issued by the White House press secretary's office on Wednesday evening, read: "I encourage all Americans to gather, in homes and places of worship, to offer a prayer of thanks to God for our many blessings."

The message from the White House, first reported by CNN, goes directly against the repeated advisories issued by government’s own public health experts, who have warned that Thanksgiving gatherings are likely to significantly contribute to the US's growing number of Covid-19 cases. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has recommended against travelling for Thanksgiving as a means of preventing further spread of the virus.
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His madness is beyond belief. :mad:

www.independent.co.uk

Trump urges Americans to ‘gather’ for Thanksgiving in direct contradiction of official Covid guidance

President in annual Thanksgiving proclamation 'encourages all Americans to gather, in homes and places of worship’
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
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