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elbows
Well-Known Member
By the way the WHO changed its definitions in March.
www.who.int
For them to label something as a variant of concern now requires the following:
Updated working definitions and primary actions for SARSCoV2 variants
Publications of the World Health Organization
For them to label something as a variant of concern now requires the following:
ice-is-forming
let me rephrase that... Fuck off
I had both a covid booster and a flu vaccination a few weeks ago, because I was going to a big international conference. I have to say that I think every country was represented from both hemispheres.
I got home on Thursday and I'm definitely not well. But the only symptom is fatigue and really bad aching all over. Which is a bit shit
I got home on Thursday and I'm definitely not well. But the only symptom is fatigue and really bad aching all over. Which is a bit shit
extra dry
Happy to be here
First person dies with new Covid variant as cases rise globally
First Arcturus fatality recorded in Thailand yesterdaywww.independent.co.uk
New variant is of interest.
F
elbows
Well-Known Member
I will no longer force myself to watch that grifter Campbells videos when you post them. Especially given that I dont remember you ever responding to those of us that took the time to point out what a shit he had become, and to debunk specific bogus claims he made. He remains an excellent example of someone who changed his message to appeal to the audience he ended up with, a disgusting phenomenon especially when truth about important things is trampled as a result.
The tragic deaths as a result of the Oxford Astrazenica vaccine are also a good example of authorities responding to data and changing their response as a result. The serious health issues and deaths which that particular vaccine caused in a minority of people led to the UK government dropping that vaccine from its mass vaccination campaign (although its possible they kept it available for individuals who couldnt have one of the mRNA vaccines instead, I'm not sure). This stands in contrast to bogus claims about other vaccines that the authorities have felt no need to act upon.
And now for a few wikipedia quotes about Campbell.
en.wikipedia.org
The tragic deaths as a result of the Oxford Astrazenica vaccine are also a good example of authorities responding to data and changing their response as a result. The serious health issues and deaths which that particular vaccine caused in a minority of people led to the UK government dropping that vaccine from its mass vaccination campaign (although its possible they kept it available for individuals who couldnt have one of the mRNA vaccines instead, I'm not sure). This stands in contrast to bogus claims about other vaccines that the authorities have felt no need to act upon.
And now for a few wikipedia quotes about Campbell.
John Campbell (YouTuber) - Wikipedia
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
I had to stop watching his videos due to his blatant twisting of data, tell me did he ever actually catch covid himself?
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
I watched the video only to the point where the videos from the inquest ended.I will no longer force myself to watch that grifter Campbells videos when you post them. Especially given that I dont remember you ever responding to those of us that took the time to point out what a shit he had become, and to debunk specific bogus claims he made. He remains an excellent example of someone who changed his message to appeal to the audience he ended up with, a disgusting phenomenon especially when truth about important things is trampled as a result.
The tragic deaths as a result of the Oxford Astrazenica vaccine are also a good example of authorities responding to data and changing their response as a result. The serious health issues and deaths which that particular vaccine caused in a minority of people led to the UK government dropping that vaccine from its mass vaccination campaign (although its possible they kept it available for individuals who couldnt have one of the mRNA vaccines instead, I'm not sure). This stands in contrast to bogus claims about other vaccines that the authorities have felt no need to act upon.
And now for a few wikipedia quotes about Campbell.
John Campbell (YouTuber) - Wikipedia
I feel very strongly about the AZ vaccine...and the damage it did to healthy people...including my sister.
I note that the Drs wife received £120000. Which seems a very small figure for the loss of her husband.
I watched the dr/nurse videos through from mid 2021 to end of 2022.
I think tthathis focus on vaccine injury is interesting for those affected by same.
extra dry
Happy to be here
I am sorry for not taking the time to reply to any comments.I will no longer force myself to watch that grifter Campbells videos when you post them. Especially given that I dont remember you ever responding to those of us that took the time to point out what a shit he had become, and to debunk specific bogus claims he made. He remains an excellent example of someone who changed his message to appeal to the audience he ended up with, a disgusting phenomenon especially when truth about important things is trampled as a result.
The tragic deaths as a result of the Oxford Astrazenica vaccine are also a good example of authorities responding to data and changing their response as a result. The serious health issues and deaths which that particular vaccine caused in a minority of people led to the UK government dropping that vaccine from its mass vaccination campaign (although its possible they kept it available for individuals who couldnt have one of the mRNA vaccines instead, I'm not sure). This stands in contrast to bogus claims about other vaccines that the authorities have felt no need to act upon.
And now for a few wikipedia quotes about Campbell.
John Campbell (YouTuber) - Wikipedia
2hats
Dust.
COVID is no longer global health emergency - WHO
COVID-19 no longer represents a global health emergency, the World Health Organization said on Friday, a major step towards the end of the pandemic that has killed more than 6.9 million people, disrupted the global economy and ravaged communities.
www.reuters.com
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yes indeed. The timing seems about right as far as official proclamations with particular implications under international health rules go.
I note Tedros also talked about how many deaths there have probably been:
From the early breaking news version of Covid global health emergency is over, WHO says
I note Tedros also talked about how many deaths there have probably been:
From the early breaking news version of Covid global health emergency is over, WHO says
something more fitting to mark with this weekend's long weekend
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
He also said that one person eveey 3 minutes is dying from covid...still.
It's not gone away.
I got a call for the pfizer booster today. It would be jab number 7. I felt really unwell after the last 2 jabs. It took me 3 months to feel relatively normal and 6 months to have energy. Not looking forward to another jab. Tempted to wait it out seeing as I'm not really meeting people or going anywhere... I'll have to get advice on it.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yeah its permanently changed the health picture.
The UK overall deaths picture hasnt really returned to the traditional pattern either, last year the summer dip didnt happen in the way it normally does. And in England and Wales there have been 22,000 more deaths so far this year compared to the same period last year, although some of that was flu and there are other reasons too.
This sort of health and death picture doesnt result in continual media coverage or dramatic emergency policies though.
The UK overall deaths picture hasnt really returned to the traditional pattern either, last year the summer dip didnt happen in the way it normally does. And in England and Wales there have been 22,000 more deaths so far this year compared to the same period last year, although some of that was flu and there are other reasons too.
This sort of health and death picture doesnt result in continual media coverage or dramatic emergency policies though.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Later version of the BBC story included:
Well it depends how you define pandemic.
Whats said there is true in terms of, for example, the simple version of the history of influenza A pandemic strains. In that the major new pandemic influenza A strains of the 20th century tended to displace the previously dominant strain when they arrived. For example the H2N2 pandemic strain of 1957 gave way to the H3N2 strain that caused a pandemic in 1968. But its not really that simple because since then the return of H1N1 in 1977 happened and that didnt result in H3N2 going away, its still with us. Not that the 1977 event was typical, it was an old strain returned without any of the expected evolution that should have taken place if it had survived for decades in natural hosts, so it was probably a lab accident (eg The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate ). But nor did H3N2 go away once the swine flu version of H1N1 from the 2009 pandemic arrived either. In that sense, using the logic expressed by Dr Mike Ryan there, the 1968 pandemic still hasnt ended, and that evolved version of that H3N2 strain still kills plenty of people.
As for coronaviruses, any previous coronavirus pandemics occurred before our scientific knowledge was up to scratch, so there is only enlightened speculation about whether and of the previous pandemics were actually caused by coronaviruses. eg whether any of the coronaviruses that we only noticed existed from the 1960s onwards (when they had already been around for ages), that tend to get lumped into the general class of 'a cold virus', caused a nasty pandemic when they first arrived, eg maybe the 1889 pandemic was a coronavirus.
Personally I suppose I find the concept of pandemic useful to use when it reflects a new novel virus spreading worldwide and facing a population with no prior immunity. As the population immunity picture changes, the concept becomes less useful, the stakes inevitably change, the term will fade out. The virus carries on killing people, but a lot of the time this happens in quantities that systems learn to cope with, and people get used to that reality. And any new waves that come along in future that cause a more dramatic level of death and problems with health system capacity tend to be called an epidemic instead. Whether we'll see the same patterns and same use of language with this coronavirus remains to be seen.
Well it depends how you define pandemic.
Whats said there is true in terms of, for example, the simple version of the history of influenza A pandemic strains. In that the major new pandemic influenza A strains of the 20th century tended to displace the previously dominant strain when they arrived. For example the H2N2 pandemic strain of 1957 gave way to the H3N2 strain that caused a pandemic in 1968. But its not really that simple because since then the return of H1N1 in 1977 happened and that didnt result in H3N2 going away, its still with us. Not that the 1977 event was typical, it was an old strain returned without any of the expected evolution that should have taken place if it had survived for decades in natural hosts, so it was probably a lab accident (eg The Reemergent 1977 H1N1 Strain and the Gain-of-Function Debate ). But nor did H3N2 go away once the swine flu version of H1N1 from the 2009 pandemic arrived either. In that sense, using the logic expressed by Dr Mike Ryan there, the 1968 pandemic still hasnt ended, and that evolved version of that H3N2 strain still kills plenty of people.
As for coronaviruses, any previous coronavirus pandemics occurred before our scientific knowledge was up to scratch, so there is only enlightened speculation about whether and of the previous pandemics were actually caused by coronaviruses. eg whether any of the coronaviruses that we only noticed existed from the 1960s onwards (when they had already been around for ages), that tend to get lumped into the general class of 'a cold virus', caused a nasty pandemic when they first arrived, eg maybe the 1889 pandemic was a coronavirus.
Personally I suppose I find the concept of pandemic useful to use when it reflects a new novel virus spreading worldwide and facing a population with no prior immunity. As the population immunity picture changes, the concept becomes less useful, the stakes inevitably change, the term will fade out. The virus carries on killing people, but a lot of the time this happens in quantities that systems learn to cope with, and people get used to that reality. And any new waves that come along in future that cause a more dramatic level of death and problems with health system capacity tend to be called an epidemic instead. Whether we'll see the same patterns and same use of language with this coronavirus remains to be seen.
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Thesaint
Active Member
It has struck me Sars2 has been far more closely monitored and than any of it's predecessors so comparing to previous pandemics is going to make assessing it in a historical context harder.
The oddity of the 1977 flu possibly being a lab leak sounds familiar though, although your the first to ever mention it.
So has the world learned enough to know what to do next time despite the imbalance of information?
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
Yossarian
⏭️
For the first time since it started releasing the figures in 2007, China has not released the number of cremations that happened in the fourth quarter of 2022
www.theguardian.com
China withholds key indicator of Covid death toll as it fails to release cremation data
China has been accused of masking the true impact of the pandemic and underreporting the number of fatalities
elbows
Well-Known Member
A big clue about what happened emerged:For the first time since it started releasing the figures in 2007, China has not released the number of cremations that happened in the fourth quarter of 2022
China withholds key indicator of Covid death toll as it fails to release cremation data
China has been accused of masking the true impact of the pandemic and underreporting the number of fatalities
elbows
Well-Known Member
Here we have a new example of the sort of signals of disease that various groups and people have to look into, to see if something new with relevance to the world is going on or not.
In very late 2019 and early 2020, one of these turned out to be the first indicator that a pandemic was coming. But these early warning signs come along often, and usually turn out to be something other than a novel new virus. So you cant jump to conclusions at this stage, but nor can experts ignore these signals, and have to get to the bottom of matters via new information:
As well as news reports, nerds can also see these sorts of signals appear on the publicly accessible ProMED site. This site has occasionally been mentioned in the Covid inquiry when looking at the first days of awareness in the UK establishment about the Wuhan outbreak. Here are the two entries on that site for this current China outbreak in children so far. These provide a further glimpse into just how limited the info and vital detail tends to be at this stage. And how individual experts then tend to chip in with their own theories as to the most likely explanation as far as they are concerned at that moment in time. You cant put much weight on those at this stage, they are just possibilities to debate pending more info and a firming up of the picture.
promedmail.org
promedmail.org
In very late 2019 and early 2020, one of these turned out to be the first indicator that a pandemic was coming. But these early warning signs come along often, and usually turn out to be something other than a novel new virus. So you cant jump to conclusions at this stage, but nor can experts ignore these signals, and have to get to the bottom of matters via new information:
China says no 'unusual or novel pathogens' after WHO queries respiratory outbreaks
Beijing tells the WHO it found no "unusual or novel pathogens" in the cases involving children.
www.bbc.co.uk
As well as news reports, nerds can also see these sorts of signals appear on the publicly accessible ProMED site. This site has occasionally been mentioned in the Covid inquiry when looking at the first days of awareness in the UK establishment about the Wuhan outbreak. Here are the two entries on that site for this current China outbreak in children so far. These provide a further glimpse into just how limited the info and vital detail tends to be at this stage. And how individual experts then tend to chip in with their own theories as to the most likely explanation as far as they are concerned at that moment in time. You cant put much weight on those at this stage, they are just possibilities to debate pending more info and a firming up of the picture.
Home - ProMED - ProMED-mail
ProMED is the largest publicly-available surveillance system conducting global reporting of infectious diseases outbreaks. Subscribe today.
promedmail.org
Home - ProMED - ProMED-mail
ProMED is the largest publicly-available surveillance system conducting global reporting of infectious diseases outbreaks. Subscribe today.
promedmail.org
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elbows
Well-Known Member
And here is the direct link to the WHO statement about that, which the BBC article does link to:
www.who.int
WHO statement on reported clusters of respiratory illness in children in northern China
WHO has made an official request to China for detailed information on an increase in respiratory illnesses and reported clusters of pneumonia in children. At a press conference on 13 November 2023, Chinese authorities from the National Health Commission reported an increase in incidence of...
hash tag
Reaching out
I would not waste your money betting on that one.I'm confident that China will cooperate 100% with the WHO and all other organisations and governments world-wide that wish to have all the relevant information.
a_chap
When the world came apart, where were you?
You might want to look up the word "irony".
hash tag
Reaching out
I was agreeing with you
elbows
Well-Known Member
Heres the latest, none of which is surprising:
Peoples skepticism about China isnt surprising either. But the instinct to cover things up is also balanced by international health regulation requirements and how it looks if something bad emerges later. So I never jump to a conclusion one way or another. What sometimes happens is that countries might be a bit late in reporting, but the actual picture still emerges, as happened with Covid. And pretty much all countries and organisations like to pad early statements with a reassuring tone, which is something we are all used to.
In this case the 'not something new' possibilities are most certainly very plausible, but remain an incomplete guide at this particular moment. It only being seen presenting seriously in children is something of a guide, but again not a 100% complete one, but it does point in particualr directions, directions that wont lead to a situation of huge interest to people around the world. Like I said earlier, I only really posted it as an example of how these 'early signal' systems work, especially given that these things have been mentioned in the public inquiry in recent times. Some people have to take them serious and probe for more info, but if everyone assumed the worst every time then you'd be left fearing a new pandemic pretty. much every week, check ProMED for the large number of initially unidentified new outbreaks, their high frequency.
Given Chinas initial response to the WHO request, unless the situation on the ground evolves in an alarming way with worrying new features and clues, we may not hear very much more about this particular situation.
China says no 'unusual or novel pathogens' after WHO queries respiratory outbreaks
Beijing tells the WHO it found no "unusual or novel pathogens" in the cases involving children.
www.bbc.co.uk
Peoples skepticism about China isnt surprising either. But the instinct to cover things up is also balanced by international health regulation requirements and how it looks if something bad emerges later. So I never jump to a conclusion one way or another. What sometimes happens is that countries might be a bit late in reporting, but the actual picture still emerges, as happened with Covid. And pretty much all countries and organisations like to pad early statements with a reassuring tone, which is something we are all used to.
In this case the 'not something new' possibilities are most certainly very plausible, but remain an incomplete guide at this particular moment. It only being seen presenting seriously in children is something of a guide, but again not a 100% complete one, but it does point in particualr directions, directions that wont lead to a situation of huge interest to people around the world. Like I said earlier, I only really posted it as an example of how these 'early signal' systems work, especially given that these things have been mentioned in the public inquiry in recent times. Some people have to take them serious and probe for more info, but if everyone assumed the worst every time then you'd be left fearing a new pandemic pretty. much every week, check ProMED for the large number of initially unidentified new outbreaks, their high frequency.
Given Chinas initial response to the WHO request, unless the situation on the ground evolves in an alarming way with worrying new features and clues, we may not hear very much more about this particular situation.
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
Mystery Chinese virus could actually be 'walking pneumonia' illness from 1800s
The mystery disease was dubbed “walking pneumonia” as it was thought to be a type of pneumonia humans could get but still continue about their day
Fuck fuck fuck.
Not again..
I know its not "covid" but a new (as in new to the 21st century hut apparently was around in the 18th century) "walking pneumonia" is spreading in China.
Fuck
