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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

I know the government wants to avoid a new national lockdown, but with all the local lockdowns being introduced will there come a point where it's quicker just to list where isn't locked down?

Partly depends on whether they move the bar for what counts as a local lockdown trigger.

The whole thing is a bit of a silly mess but it was always going to be a strange period. Some of it is still down to the testing regime and its absurdities and capacity limitations. Some of it is down to what measures they are and are not prepared to take in the local lockdowns, ie they still try to prioritise businesses staying open etc. Some of it is down to not always being sure what the data they are looking at means, and whether rises elsewhere are being missed when testing capacity is diverted to known hotspots. Some of this stuff makes me cry out once more for sewage-based data that might give a better indication of real levels of infection everywhere and not missing rises in areas that have not been under the microscope in recent months. It would also be easier to see if their actions are appropriate if we were at a stage where the varying situation in different places showed up clearly in the hospital data we get to see. Although I of course do not wish for a period where more people are becoming more seriously ill, such signs do help reconnect more people with reality and risk.

Some of it is probably because some of the preferred strategies might have been a better fit for a reality where we managed to get levels of community infection down to lower levels than were actually achieved before national restrictions were eased.

In a way its similar to what I go on about with contact tracing - yes it is perfectly possible for countries to find themselves in a situation where they can keep a lid on a pandemic by doing a hell of a lot of good quality test & trace stuff. But that doesnt mean that a country exists that could always rely on such things in every circumstance. Things can still get out of control and require more draconian measures quite quickly, even in places like Australia that seemed to have a grip. And sometimes you just have to listen to what the tracing stuff tells you and be prepared to act more broadly. For example sometimes even a world class contact tracing system doesnt let you keep the bars open, indeed it might end up being the very source of the information that tells you that actually you need to close the bars because there is too much transmission via that setting for your more nuanced measures to cope with.
 
Interesting, although I cannot see all such data myself and part of this story is probably Hancock desperately searching for something to say that might cause more people to listen and change behaviour....

While local lockdowns have been mainly concentrated in poorer areas, Hancock said this had now changed. “The recent increase we have seen in the last few days is more broadly spread,” he said. “It’s actually among more affluent younger people where we have seen the rise.”

“The rise in the number of cases we’ve seen over the last few days is largely among younger people – under-25s, especially between 17 and 21. The message to all your younger listeners is that even though you’re at lower risk of dying from Covid if you’re under 25, you can still have really serious symptoms and consequences.”

While the mortality rate among young people was lower, Hancock said, they could still be susceptible to debilitating long-term symptoms.

 
Maybe I'm just bitter that Jonathan Van-Tam wasnt given his own spin-off show after the main series ended.

It was May 30th that he warned 'don't tear the pants out of it', so by some measures we have done well to go about 100 days since then before reaching this moment of concern. Then again, that advice was considered obsolete in some tory circles because the emperors new pants were tear-proof by virtue of their illusory nature.

Ah here we go!


The latest "big change" in coronavirus infections across the UK is of "great concern", England's deputy chief medical officer has warned.

Prof Jonathan Van Tam said people have "relaxed too much" over the summer and "we have got to start taking this very seriously again".

If not, the UK will have "a bumpy ride over the next few months", he warned.

He said that infections among younger people in EU countries had later filtered through to older age groups.

"People have relaxed too much, now is the time for us to re-engage, and to realise that this a continuing threat to us," Prof Van Tam said.

Prof Van Tam added that the trend had moved away from "specific hotspots", such as the one that occurred in Leicester last month.

Instead, "there is a more general and creeping geographic trend across the UK that disease levels are now beginning to turn up".

He urged public health officials and politicians to think about how the virus is managed not in the short term, but over the next six months and "until the spring".

In what context was he speaking? The BBC dont seem to say, and I didnt know anything about this earlier when I mentioned him. His final remark makes me especially interested in the context.
 
Every improvement is down to how wonderful the policy is. Every setback is down to people just not following it properly.

Its not very convincing though. So some of the people who are more on the medical and science side of government rather than the pure politicians will occasionally be found making remarks that lean rather more towards 'we'll have to change the policy and close some stuff'. They will not be afforded as many opportunities to do so as I would like, and they will vary in how far they are prepared to go with their words in public, but even months ago the likes of Whitty were indulging in a not terribly subtle display of their concerns about the pubs reopening policy. Which is not to say that I am a complete fan of any of those people, sometimes they will say stuff that I wildly disagree with. But they are more likely to talk pandemic sense than Johnson and the cabinet, which admittedly is not a hard feat to pull off.
 
After those 'concerns we were 6 weeks behind France' comments that made me groan and suffer deja vu last night, I think the channel 4 news health and social care editor mentioned that we've got 'maybe a 2 week time lag behind these countries' (Spain and France).
 
Maybe I should say that when it comes down to these various comments about being 2 weeks or whatever behind particular countries in europe, I dont think we can take it quite as literally as the '2 weeks behind Italy' that really did involved the number trends for UK & Italy tracking pretty well with 2 weeks lag for a key period of the pandemic.

For example its already been more than two weeks since the hospital data of countries like Spain, France and Italy gave fresh signals by starting to rise. eg I think a little over 2 weeks has already passed since there was more than enough prior weeks of data from Spain for me to start mentioning the emerging hospital picture there and its implications. So I'm not looking to try to match up our numbers in a precise way and come up with an accurate estimate of how much we lag behind the resurgence seen in those countries. Plus there could easily be more variation in the speed and geographic spread of resurgence between these different countries this time.
 
I'm a pretty fastidious person when it comes to lockdown rules, because I think it Just. Needs. To. Be. Done. to get rid of it.

But seven months later even I, whilst tollowing all the rules, am feeling a little Covid weary. So it doesn't surprise me that others got bored of it all months earlier.
 
I'm a pretty fastidious person when it comes to lockdown rules, because I think it Just. Needs. To. Be. Done. to get rid of it.

But seven months later even I, whilst tollowing all the rules, am feeling a little Covid weary. So it doesn't surprise me that others got bored of it all months earlier.
Likewise, we've been really careful, chez mx and I agree, I go to pubs now, locally, albeit ones where I'm confident that they are obeying the rules.

Being "covid weary", Bank holiday weekend, I went on a camping trip to a pub with camping and "festival friends" where "festival friend bands" were playing. We were maybe 25 people. On Saturday "our bands" played , along with a commercial "covers band" that none of us watched. The pub (outside, and in "semi outside" tents) had 300 to 400 people I reckon on Saturday night. Social distancing collapsed.

I left on Sunday morning, even though there were more of our bands playing on Sunday. I just wasn't happy with the situation.

I have one of those "conditions" that means if I get covid, I will get it bad, so I'm very cautious.

There is an indoor "socially distanced" punk gig in Guildford next month with my favourite band in the whole world ever headlining. I rarely miss Eastfield gigs when they play down south, but I'm not going. It kills me to say that though.
 
Normally I would wait for more data to accumulate before posting a graph at such an early stage of changing trajectory, but since the mood music in the news already turned I suppose there is less point waiting.

Only shows data from July onwards so that the recent changes are not swamped by the scale of the graph needing to cover huge numbers earlier in the pandemic.

Screenshot 2020-09-08 at 00.04.30.png
 
Things not looking good this morning

Coronavirus: Warnings from scientists as UK cases continue to rise
Two members of the UK government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) have given stark warnings over the increase in coronavirus cases across the country.
Prof John Edmunds said cases were now "increasing exponentially", while England's deputy chief medical officer, Prof Jonathan Van Tam, said people had "relaxed too much" and must start taking the virus seriously again.
 
The Government just needs to grasp the nettle and impose another strict national lockdown to facilitate keeping schools open. And secondary schools need to be stricter imposing social distancing, from what I've heard they're not trying in any meaningful way.
 
The Government just needs to grasp the nettle and impose another strict national lockdown to facilitate keeping schools open. And secondary schools need to be stricter imposing social distancing, from what I've heard they're not trying in any meaningful way.
My college for all the staff's combined thousands of years experience with young people appears to believe they will adhere perfectly to distancing stickers on the floor and lines of tape in the corridors.
 
The Government just needs to grasp the nettle and impose another strict national lockdown to facilitate keeping schools open. And secondary schools need to be stricter imposing social distancing, from what I've heard they're not trying in any meaningful way.

If I remember secondary school correctly you might as well ask secondary schools to piss in the wind rather than try and control the pupils
 
If I remember secondary school correctly you might as well ask secondary schools to piss in the wind rather than try and control the pupils

They police things like smoking and fighting, just police this the same. Few difficult weeks then it'll settle down. Also some of it is a issue around timetabling and use of spaces as well. Large spaces like sports halls and concert venes need to be used like they have in some other countries.
 
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Also IME almost every bar, restaurant, etc. are basically not doing T&T in any meaningful way and that's not policed either.
 
Some bars in Cardiff have been served health and safety covid improvement orders. 48 hours or they'll be closed. Overdue and necessary given the lockdown in Caerphilly next door, other nearby spikes and the reality of how many people from those areas work and weekend socialise here. Still, doing this to only five seems like an arbitrary drop in the ocean, although maybe a high profile crackdown on a few will 'encourage' the others.
 
The Government just needs to grasp the nettle and impose another strict national lockdown to facilitate keeping schools open. And secondary schools need to be stricter imposing social distancing, from what I've heard they're not trying in any meaningful way.

Any so-called bubble pops the moment the kids are outside the school gates IME. I walk the dog during the morning and afternoon school run. There's no social distancing going on at these times/points.
 
Those bars being threatened are all frequented by the beer boys from the valleys including caerphilly. I'd be avoiding if I lived in Cardiff (already did, not a covid thing)
 
There are compelling arguments for the re-opening of schools on the grounds of child wellbeing.

...but we can reasonably predict that this will lead to a rise in transmission of Covid. So we really should be seeing a tightening up of other possible transmission opportunities. Right?

Wrong.

Get back to work and get the cheques off those students innit?
 
Also IME almost every bar, restaurant, etc. are basically not doing T&T in any meaningful way and that's not policed either.

Its a lot better round my way. There are a few which are a bit haphazard but the vast majority are strictly by the book, then again they are big London pubcos. You're met at the door to be seated, details taken either there and then or you scan a QR code or log into their wifi. Table service and one way systems. Most of them won't even pass you the drink off the tray its being served on you have to collect it yourself.
 
Those bars being threatened are all frequented by the beer boys from the valleys including caerphilly. I'd be avoiding if I lived in Cardiff (already did, not a covid thing)

Gin and Juice could be described as many things, but not that!
 
Has any new way of dealing with COVID in care homes been implemented or even suggested since spring, by the way? Given such a huge number of deaths were in care homes I'd like to think there was some new and coordinated plan to manage it better, but from the way things are in this country, I'm guessing not.
 
Testing system is well fucked.

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Has any new way of dealing with COVID in care homes been implemented or even suggested since spring, by the way? Given such a huge number of deaths were in care homes I'd like to think there was some new and coordinated plan to manage it better, but from the way things are in this country, I'm guessing not.
None or very restricted visiting I've been told from freinds working in them and at hospitals (London) no visiting still.
I hope staff are not moving between locations too much now.
Despite the focus on human stupidity these times have brought I think the majority are protecting their elderly and folk with Comorbities.
Unis going back is a scam when it could be done online from mum and dad's however kids need to go back to school really.
I think it's really going to hit poorer parts of society and the fucks given are sliding away. Eta and this includes carers and their families and many NHS workers
 
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