Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Orang Utan]

Why can't we all do what we like, so long as we stay 2m apart?

can we buy drugs now?

 

[Edie]

They have, several local business owners confirmed last week in a Zoom meeting that they have received their payments.

Oh really. Definitely not all though as both my ex and my current own businesses, have furloughed, and not got anything. Wages must still be paid.

 

[bimble]

A thing that might be useful to know:

Section44 – Employment Rights Act 1996 – the secret to getting safe working conditions in the UK

 

[Mation]

Do you realise that the government haven’t actually paid out any money towards furlough yet? And there have been a number of sly and concerning phrases that don’t install massive confidence that they will without question. Jobs are gonna be shed and hard, and businesses are gonna start to go bust at a rate of knots. I’m kinda surprised that the protection of livelihoods isn’t afforded a bit more importance on here given most of us have families to feed.

It's not at all that's it's not important, Edie. Doesn't surprise me in the least that the government hasn't yet paid any furlough, but that still doesn't make it the right answer for people to have to risk their lives.

 

[killer b]

Exactly. People are just ignoring it now anyway and voting with their feet.

I don't think it's that it's being totally ignored - I think it's more that people are making their own assessments of what's risky and acting accordingly. The principles of social distancing are - by and large - being adhered to, even if some specifics of the guidelines are being ignored.

 

[LDC]

From Wednesday that’s precisely what we’re now told we can do, according to the Guardian, but only if we meet up outside with only one person, hence my confusion,

Looks like that is maybe a bit speculative, will see what gets clarified this week.

 

[Edie]

You're setting up a false choice, though. Either we're all forced back to work regardless of the virus situation or we all lose our jobs.

The Bank of England can print more money.

That's a serious suggestion. It was done to bail out the banks. Do it now to bail out people.

Oh, and take money off the rich. Lots of it.

It’s not either or. It’s a graduated, conditional lifting of lockdown to ease the economic situation. That much must have at least been clear from the amazing graph shown

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

can we buy drugs now?

What’s changed?

 

[LDC]

Why can't we all do what we like, so long as we stay 2m apart?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't think it's that it's being totally ignored - I think it's more that people are making their own assessments of what's risky and acting accordingly. The principles of social distancing are - by and large - being adhered to, even if some specifics of the guidelines are being ignored.

Yep. Lots of people meeting up for a chat around here, and being sensible about it. That's not the problem wrt virus spread and probably never was. Stuff like hospital transmission, transport transmission, workplace transmission are way more important.

 

[Orang Utan]

What’s changed?

I haven't had any in a month. Could do with some sleep.

 

[elbows]

Hadn't seen that, and it wasn't announced, that seems weird as it's a big change.

They are doing the drip drip like they did during a much earlier stage when initial measures were coming in (the various stuff that came well before the final dramatic 'lockdown' stuff).

There is more detail tomorrow, and it does infuriate me when sections of the press are given it first, especially as sections of the press have been giving out a load of other 'details' in recent weeks that turned out to not be true.

Gimpston Herdchills Flockdown Easing speech did not impress me much, to say the least.

 

[LDC]

Yep. Lots of people meeting up for a chat around here, and being sensible about it. That's not the problem wrt virus spread and probably never was. Stuff like hospital transmission, transport transmission, workplace transmission are way more important.

Actually that's not strictly true. Social transmission and then into the other areas is a significant route.

 

[Edie]

I don't think it's that it's being totally ignored - I think it's more that people are making their own assessments of what's risky and acting accordingly. The principles of social distancing are - by and large - being adhered to, even if some specifics of the guidelines are being ignored.

Which, tbf, is kinda what Boris is aiming at

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Actually that's not strictly true. Social transmission and then into the other areas is a significant route.

From sitting in separated chairs outside, chatting? Unless you know something I don't about transmission, that's not a high risk activity.l

 

[little_legs]

You've been busy working through this and I'll bet you've seen lots that the rest of us haven't.
You also defo won't have been sat indoors pouring over comparitive figures from other countries, either, with the time to worry about how/why 'lessons' continue not to be learned, or to be completely ignored.
We can't stay in lockdown forever, of course but we can move out of it sensibly.
There will be a further loss of lives and an even greater impact on services (and therefore to the economy, too, as it goes - if that is even something worth keeping in mind as the priority) if we move too quickly.
It is NOT essential that builders, for eg, suddenly have to find their way, any way, to work tomorrow - it just isn't - and it's a really thoughtless, stupid new rule to have come up with after a week where we have been flooded with the idea that lockdown is over.
I feel like there is going to be a narrative, going forwards from now, that people are being lazy - that's not what has been happening while you have been out there. <3
Do we have enough PPE for NHS staff yet? For careworkers? Wasn't that always one of the five rules? It's obscene that lockdown is being lifted right now, with the priority on non-essential (but profitable) work like building, with huge stress put onto those workers.

I would hate to be working in an NHS Covid ward in early June

 

[quimcunx]

Really? Cos I personally know of at least three mates whose small business is about to go bust. Tell that to them.

What will happen to their business if they or their staff die or get ill for weeks and weeks or even if there is a 2nd wave and we need a 3 month lockdown to sort that one out because we lifted measures too soon this time.


The Tories lack of action and lack of speed is costing the precious economy more than if they'd cared more about us than the economy to start. Lifting lockdown too soon will end up costing more than keeping lockdown for another week.

 

[quimcunx]

From sitting in separated chairs outside, chatting? Unless you know something I don't about transmission, that's not a high risk activity.l

Someone on these boards caught it exactly like that.

 

[killer b]

Which, tbf, is kinda what Boris is aiming at

You have the cart before the horse - this was happening already, and they didn't have the means to carry out enforcement, so an announcement of relaxation of the guidelines to allow what people are already doing makes it look like they're vaguely in control of something.

 

[elbows]

Actually that's not strictly true. Social transmission and then into the other areas is a significant route.

Yes, only the special ones get the benefit of HMS Bubble.

Twenty-two royal staff members sacrificed family life to remain isolated at Windsor Castle and to serve Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip for the duration of the coronavirus isolation.

A memo to the staff of householder Tony Johnstone-Burt, 62, a former Royal Navy officer, called the mission to protect the Queen and Prince Philip “HMS Bubble”.

 

[LDC]

From sitting in separated chairs outside, chatting? Unless you know something I don't about transmission, that's not a high risk activity.l

Not in that example, but that's not always what happens though. It's not high risk, but it's not only the activity you do, but also the travel to get there and the interactions you might not even notice on the way there and back. It might not be 'high risk' compared to other things, but the risk is there, and it's often more than people realize.

 

[prunus]

I'll be visiting as soon as practicable, which means not just yet but certainly this year, this summer hopefully. My folks are old. But they would rather take the risk of seeing me, and the chances I'll be an asymptomatic infectious carrier at the point of visiting are small.

My mum's 88 and has respiratory problems. I don't doubt that c19 would finish her off. But I also know that she would want to see me. It's her risk in the end, but as long as I'm sensible - ie don't go if I think there's even a small chance I have c19 - it's not such a big risk. tbh you have to weigh up that risk with the chances that there might not be a next year.

But you (and she) are not assessing the entire risk by deciding that it’s worth the small risk that she dies if you transmit it to her by visiting, it’s not just her risk - it’s also that if she gets it, she’s more likely to get it severely (as you say), she’ll likely be taken to hospital, thereby exposing a number of paramedics, other medical staff, and patients to the virus. Some of these may succumb, or even die, but even if they don’t, they in turn will be taking it back to their homes and families, into the shops they visit, onto the buses they use, where other people may pick it up, and so on.

The reason ‘vulnerable’ people need to be strongly shielded is not, from the perspective of outbreak suppression, because their risk of dying is higher, but because their risk of spreading it, and spreading it in vulnerable places, if they get it is higher. A healthy young person can hole up with paracetamol and lucozade for a fortnight, dead-ending transmission.

Or maybe you are, and still consider it worth it. It’s a personal call after all.

 

[Raheem]

I would hate to be working in an NHS Covid ward in early June

Don't think it will happen that quickly. That's when we're supposed to go into the next phase - conveniently just before the consequences of entering the current phase become apparent.

 

[LDC]

My two double whiskey take on it is we're a bit fucked, the economy has been given number 1 billing, brace ourselves for a upsurge in cases and deaths, lots of finger pointing, and then another lockdown and a hard rest of year.

 

[quimcunx]

So me and Mrs K can meet up with our son, who is one person, and we won’t be fined for breaking the rules. But our son is going to meet up with us, and we’re two people, so he gets fined? Or have I missed something?

No. Still only allowed to spend time with your household.

But You can have gatherings of up to 2 people was said at some point so you cant meet him but you can as long as it's one at a time. #totallyclear

 

[little_legs]

My two double whiskey take on it is we're a bit fucked, the economy has been given number 1 billing, brace ourselves for a upsurge in cases and deaths, lots of finger pointing, and then another lockdown and a hard rest of year.

This.

 

[Orang Utan]

i think this sums it up well enough:

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

My two double whiskey take on it is we're a bit fucked, the economy has been given number 1 billing, brace ourselves for a upsurge in cases and deaths, lots of finger pointing, and then another lockdown and a hard rest of year.

My two glasses of red wine and the a pint of scrumpy take on it is that you’re very optimistic.

 

[Edie]

What will happen to their business if they or their staff die or get ill for weeks and weeks or even if there is a 2nd wave and we need a 3 month lockdown to sort that one out because we lifted measures too soon this time.


The Tories lack of action and lack of speed is costing the precious economy more than if they'd cared more about us than the economy to start. Lifting lockdown too soon will end up costing more than keeping lockdown for another week.

So you’d be okay if all this was happening in a weeks time? If not, when? What conditions must be satisfied in your opinion? Cos genuinely, there isn’t a perfect solution, is there. Every decision has risks, and there’s risk associated with staying locked down too. Mass unemployment and a Great Depression will cost lives with poverty believe me.

 

[SpookyFrank]

No. Still only allowed to spend time with your household.

But You can have gatherings of up to 2 people was said at some point so you cant meet him but you can as long as it's one at a time. #totallyclear

Kevbad the Bad can meet his son, while his son can meet Mrs Kevbad. Just, sort of all at the same time.

I should've been a lawyer.