Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Wilf]

LOL, ho

?

 

[Wilf]

I obviously have no idea of the whole situation (and what was actually said by the care home staff, 111, etc.) but people should not be avoiding A&E because of that reason. They might not want to, but it's been made very clear that people need to get sorted for acute non-CV related problems.

I'd be on the phone to them asking some questions tbh. Was her fall witnessed? Why do they think the hip is broken? Has she been assessed by a HCP? What exactly did 111 say, and when, and to who? What's the plan for her now?

I can see you've edited it out now, but why did you respond to my post with 'LOL, ho'?

 

[LDC]

I can see you've edited it out now, but why did you respond to my post with 'LOL, ho'?

It was from a post to something else in another forum I never posted. It was saved and then ended up on the top of the post I wrote to you somehow. Luckily noticed it after I posted quickly. Not quick enough, obviously although have thought it was obviously a typo or glitch, sorry if it caused upset or confusion.

 

[JimW]

It was from a post to something else in another forum I never posted. It was saved and then ended up on the top of the post I wrote to you somehow. Luckily noticed it after I posted quickly. Not quick enough, obviously although have thought it was obviously a typo or glitch.

My browser's always saving bits of half posts too, have to keep an eye out for them.

 

[killer b]

I think it's the board software that saves it rather than the browser isn't it?

 

[Cid]

Yeah, been annoying me that. Even if you delete a reply it will reappear on refresh. Specifically annoying on phone. Anyway, not much we can do about it.

 

[PD58]

Just reading an update in the NS on the Oxford vaccine, it seems that between 1998 & 2009 the average was 10.7 years to produce a vaccine and the fastest ever was for Ebola in 5 years.
At best it looks like 18 months but that will not allow for any long term study of possible side effects... quote from one epidemiologist waiting for a vaccine is 'not a strategy, it's a hope'.

 

[teqniq]

Yeah, been annoying me that. Even if you delete a reply it will reappear on refresh. Specifically annoying on phone. Anyway, not much we can do about it.

Click on the draft button and choose 'delete draft'.

 

[LDC]

Just reading an update in the NS on the Oxford vaccine, it seems that between 1998 & 2009 the average was 10.7 years to produce a vaccine and the fastest ever was for Ebola in 5 years.
At best it looks like 18 months but that will not allow for any long term study of possible side effects... quote from one epidemiologist waiting for a vaccine is 'not a strategy, it's a hope'.

Yeah, if I was going to place a bet it wouldn't be on us having a vaccine for use in the next 18 months.

 

[Jay Park]

Re: the make shift hospitals or using the Nightingale's and moving care home residents there.

So, you'd move them there out of their familiar environment, and to places that are quite likely to be far from unsuitable for their needs? Many patients with conditions such as dementia or physical needs like hoisting that makes their care very complex, even more so in unfamiliar places. How long would you put them there for, and who would look after them?

Would you give them this option or make it compulsory, as I am willing to bet most would want to take the risk and go back to their home.

I totally agree there's been some massive failings, but I also think there was no ideal answer with the care homes, just some less bad ones.

Well I mean, yeah, but I’d like to think I’d have done anything and everything possible to see this wouldn’t have occurred to such an extent. I like to think that at least.

 

[Jay Park]

Do you have any idea of how complex and what a minefield it would be dealing with every single care home resident that wanted to go home but you needed to 'detain' and send to a dedicated CV+ place? And the corresponding uproar if that had happened?

Everyone else should have been on quarantine too though, right?

 

[xenon]

I think it's the board software that saves it rather than the browser isn't it?

Yeah. I'ts a shit feature IMO.

 

[xenon]

Just reading an update in the NS on the Oxford vaccine, it seems that between 1998 & 2009 the average was 10.7 years to produce a vaccine and the fastest ever was for Ebola in 5 years.
At best it looks like 18 months but that will not allow for any long term study of possible side effects... quote from one epidemiologist waiting for a vaccine is 'not a strategy, it's a hope'.

Read a really good article explaining how the Ebola vaccine came about. The companies involved, the doggedness of a few individuals. It's hoped that the sheer effort and focus on this might expidite some of that, even if the scientific breakthroughs and work throw something up.

Was going to link to the article in question but it's on my work PC.

e2a here it is

‘Against all odds’: The inside story of how scientists across three continents produced an Ebola vaccine

The story of the Ebola vaccine is a story of scientific grit — and researchers on three continents who toiled to achieve what was once unthinkable.

www.statnews.com

 

[killer b]

Yeah. I'ts a shit feature IMO.

I don't think it's a bad feature altogether - it's easy to close a window or browsers crash, and if you're 8 paragraphs into an epic takedown it could be pretty galling to lose all that sweet vitriol... it should probably just be a draft you can click to stick in there though, rather than being automatically there whatever.

 

[two sheds]

It's problematic because even if you delete the post in your browser it comes back again. If teqniq's suggestion works though that should sort it.

 

[andysays]

Click on the draft button and choose 'delete draft'.

Which is the draft button?

 

[zahir]

Which is the draft button?

Next to last icon at the top of the reply box.

 

[two sheds]

Top left second line looks like a floppy disk. It works nice one teqniq . Saves embarrassing mistakes

Eta oops depending how wide your browser window is - otherwise top right, what teqniq says below.

 

[Numbers]

Ok, but where I am, there’s no sign of any cops let alone enforcement, so it doesn’t feel like we’re living in a draconian state yet

Same as here. No cops enforcing anything and it has been a lockdown me arse

 

[teqniq]

Which is the draft button?

 

[Wilf]

It was from a post to something else in another forum I never posted. It was saved and then ended up on the top of the post I wrote to you somehow. Luckily noticed it after I posted quickly. Not quick enough, obviously although have thought it was obviously a typo or glitch, sorry if it caused upset or confusion.

Okay, cheers.

 

[Wilf]

It's problematic because even if you delete the post in your browser it comes back again. If teqniq's suggestion works though that should sort it.

It is a bit annoying and sometimes leads to you posting 2 versions of the same reply and/or an inadvertant combination of replies to 2 people (though only within the same thread afaik). Same time, if you are on something like a political theory thread and posting long answers, it has its uses.

 

[two sheds]

I've posted a note to the feedback thread. I tried to insert a screenshot of what teqniq posted but failed miserably - he may want to add it again since I've tagged him

 

[two sheds]

Same time, if you are on something like a political theory thread and posting long answers, it has its uses.

Yes good point, I've lost text before like that if the browser crashes or I move off trying to find a reference to something.

 

[Wilf]

I've posted a note to the feedback thread. I tried to insert a screenshot of what teqniq posted but failed miserably - he may want to add it again since I've tagged him

Something like the 'a copy of this message has been saved, do you want to keep it' that you get in outlook would be good (though I suspect it would be a right faff to set up). Anyway, I digress.

 

[Cid]

Yes, enough of these sidetracks, let’s get back to general despair and snapping at each other in our impotence.

On which note it’s going to be devastating if a vaccine does prove difficult to bring into effect... though I suppose also depends hugely on how long immunity lasts, how the virus evolves medium-long term etc.

 

[LDC]

Everyone else should have been on quarantine too though, right?

But they were quarantining (self-isolating) in their homes, also risking infecting other household occupants obviously.

What is being suggested by some is that people that lived in care or nursing care homes wouldn't have been allowed home once infected (or would have been removed from their home if infected there) but would have been sent somewhere else, whether they wanted to be or not. And that place would have to be single occupancy rooms, have a load of other structural stuff like catering and accessible toilets etc, with dedicated nursing and care staff, and able also to deal with the complex and resource intensive care that these patients would have needed.

I'm not saying it wasn't (or isn't) possible, but it's much more complex than it might seem.

 

[zahir]

What is being suggested by some is that people that lived in care or nursing care homes wouldn't have been allowed home once infected (or would have been removed from their home if infected there) but would have been sent somewhere else, whether they wanted to be or not. And that place would have to be single occupancy rooms, have a load of other structural stuff like catering and accessible toilets etc, with dedicated nursing and care staff, and able also to deal with the complex and resource intensive care that these patients would have needed.

I'm not saying it wasn't (or isn't) possible, but it's much more complex than it might seem.

Yes, but we’re talking about somewhere for people to stay for, presumably, a couple of weeks until there’s some guarantee that they aren’t going to spread the virus. I don’t see why that shouldn’t be possible.

 

[kalidarkone]

Returning to the issue of workplaces where strict 2 metre distancing isn't possible all the time, there are a number of measures that can be taken.

Firstly, people can minimise the time they spend in close proximity, and do it without directly facing and therefore breathing on each other.

And secondly, minimising the number of people each person is in close proximity to, so that one person can only infect the smallest number rather than the whole workforce.

In my job, we normally work with teams of up to four people in one (large, with two rows of seats) van. Because some people are off and we've got a few extra vans, we are now able to work in teams of just two per van, and we're making sure we keep in the same team of two all the time, so each person is only in close proximity to one other person.

This doesn't eliminate risk, but it does reduce it to what I think is an acceptable level in the circumstances.

I would imagine that the work situation described would benefit from FRSM (fluid resistant surgical masks) I have to wear them at work all the time because of working in a clinical area and because the nature of the job means one cant distance unless in the loo or on break.

 

[prunus]

Here's a little vignette on the UK's testing regime. It's only an anecdote obviously, but it has some interesting facets so I thought I'd share.

A family I know, two adults, two kids (under 10), one of the adults is a surgeon at a major NHS hospital; at the weekend the surgeon and one of the kids started showing symptoms of coronavirus, so they went to get the whole family tested on Monday.

They've only just received the results - that's 4 days later for someone who you'd think was a priority key worker surely?

The real kicker though - the two adults and the symptomatic kid tested negative - the asymptomatic kid tested positive. How does one interpret those results? And how does one apply the quarantine rules? The current guidelines are still that you quarantine for 14 days after the start of someone in your household who has it's symptoms. Should the surgeon now not go to work for a fortnight? Or for 7 days from the start of their symptoms (which is what it would be if they'd tested positive)? And when does the 14 days start if you apply that, as the only person tested positive has no symptoms?

I suppose strictly - start a 14 day quarantine for the 3 negative people from the day of the test, and a 7 day one for the positive kid from that same day.

Using the argument from personal incredulity is seems unlikely that the symptomatic cases are true negatives, under the circumstances (they've not been isolating from each other, and for those who haven't had under 10 year olds - snot goes everywhere); are the tests that unreliable? And given that the subject is a doctor, surely 4 days is too long?

Anyway, just wanted to share.