They don't help. This virus doesn't just enter through the nose and mouth and the masks most people are wearing are not going to block the virus anyway. A lot of people don't know how to put them on properly, hence the WHO advice. As you say they give people a false sense of security and even putting the mask on involves more touching of your face.
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
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They don't help. This virus doesn't just enter through the nose and mouth and the masks most people are wearing are not going to block the virus anyway. A lot of people don't know how to put them on properly, hence the WHO advice. As you say they give people a false sense of security and even putting the mask on involves more touching of your face.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I consider the idea that they dont help to be complete bullshit.
www.cbsnews.com
Austria is making everyone who goes inside a supermarket wear a face mask
"I am fully aware that masks are alien to our culture," Austria's chancellor said. "This will require a big adjustment."
www.cbsnews.com
I can certainly see their advantages but I really think its need to be done within a cultural understanding of how they are used and to what aim. I don't think we have that in Europe at the moment whereas they may have in places such as China. My gut feeling is that the UK government has it right at the moment with their advice but quite frankly I'm no more qualified to make this judgement than the average man who shouldn't be on the Clapham Omnibus without a very good reason.
Sorry, my wording was a bit strong there. I've just got back from the shops and been asked by a fellow shopper why I wasn't wearing one.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I actually bought oat milk a couple of weeks ago to see what it was like, in case it became difficult to get normal semi skimmed.
It's OK in coffee, but not so good in cereal, and fortunately it doesn't seem like there's any problem getting normal milk.
sanctimonious grin
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Almond milk in coffee ftw. Keeps the bitterness.
I've mentioned on here previously that I like the idea of masks in general as a good manners thing if nothing else. We are very poor in a lot of the West in managing winter colds and flu etc. People spluttering everywhere at their desks or on bus etc. I do think there is something in wearing masks and this could lead to adopting this behaviour. I just think that from personal observation people are going to need to understand how to use them and they're limitations.
One thing I just can't shake though is this feeling that if they could be proven to work than why haven't they? The market for managing coughs and colds is massive in the wealthiest countries, absolutely vast. If a mask manufacturer could say 'yes our product works and here's the proof', why has this not already happened? Why is it not happening now?
There is a solution in here somewhere.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I consider the idea that they dont help to be complete bullshit.
Austria is making everyone who goes inside a supermarket wear a face mask
"I am fully aware that masks are alien to our culture," Austria's chancellor said. "This will require a big adjustment."
I was skeptical about their general use, but it does seem they do reduce cross infection.
In hospital in the past if someone had flu we'd make then wear a mask in the department to lessen them spreading it, so maybe it doesn't lessen the risk to the person wearing it, but makes droplet spread less likely surely.
lefteri
Well-Known Member
it seemed to me that the WHO was too slow to declare a pandemic and this may have given western countries a false sense of security (i may be completely wrong on this) and the advice on masks seems also to be behind the curve
The UK and WHO guidance is not to bother but if it makes people feel safer then so be it!
editor
hiraethified
Private Eye piece:
Private Eye | Turd of the Week : Cash flow
WELSH Water (aka Dwr Cymru) likes to point out that, unlike English water companies, it is a not-for-profit company with no shareholders. But that hasn't stopped it paying whopping bonuses to its executives.
www.private-eye.co.uk
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
keeping deaths down to '5,700' is looking rather laughable now.Private Eye piece:
Private Eye | Turd of the Week : Cash flow
WELSH Water (aka Dwr Cymru) likes to point out that, unlike English water companies, it is a not-for-profit company with no shareholders. But that hasn't stopped it paying whopping bonuses to its executives.www.private-eye.co.uk
And lets not forget PE was a significant driver in support for Andrew Wakefields MMR bullshit
i have been wearing a surgical one, they are very uncomfortable,, sticky, make it harder to breathe if you have any such issues, thats indoors, i suspect wearing it outside would even more alienating, etc. esp on a nice day
The chinese students won't come back to study unless they consider we are using them and effectively.
The important qualifier in the UK govt advice is 'in people who are well'. We know that people who appear and feel well ,may, in fact, not be well. And if they are wearing a mask, they're less likely to spread the disease in the asymptomatic stage. That's what this is about.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yes, and one of the reasons we are only hearing more about it now is that there was a general reluctance to focus properly on the asymptomatic side of this, despite signs of its relevance since the early days.
2hats
Dust.
Reducing onward transmission is the whole point of the exercise.
It's not entirely pointless (DOI: 10.1017/dmp.2013.43, DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0002618), it's source control; drive R0 towards unity, or lower. Not just for those recovering but the asymptomatic too.
Sure, efficacy clearly improves with fit and density of the material used, the aim being to dampen gas cloud momentum and thus curb the propagation of the turbulent multiphase, virion infected, expiratory droplet cloud (DOI: 10.1001/jama.2020.4756). But a cycling grade pollution mask which filters substantially at PM10 (better, down to PM2.5) will make a significant difference to transmission rate given the bulk of longer lived transmissible expiratory droplets are at that scale or greater dimensions.
mx wcfc
Well-Known Member
Exactly this. The WHO advised against closing China's borders at a time when doing so would have stopped all of this, so I'm not inclined to pay much attention to them. I suspect the guidance about face masks is largely because there aren't enough of them to go round so telling people to wear them would cause fear amongst those without.
I have to admit I didn't understand most of that but my god you know your stuff!
Are you a scientist/doctor?
Part-timah
Well-Known Member
Front line report:
Lambeth councillor and nurse shares her front line experience in the battle against coronavirus
A Lambeth councillor and intensive care unit nurse has been helping tackle the coronavirus on two fronts: working to help patients with severe symptoms, as well as representing her local community …www.brixtonbuzz.com
Get certificate warns in your site
lefteri
Well-Known Member
i presume this thing would be quite effective (filters are for aerosol paint) but i’m not sure i could take the strange looks
crossthebreeze
Well-Known Member
Actually from my experience at work there's more dogshit than before and still plenty of litter (now with added disposable gloves and masks) - in an area close to local shops anyway.Private Eye piece:
Private Eye | Turd of the Week : Cash flow
WELSH Water (aka Dwr Cymru) likes to point out that, unlike English water companies, it is a not-for-profit company with no shareholders. But that hasn't stopped it paying whopping bonuses to its executives.www.private-eye.co.uk
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
To which the only possible answer can be "That's my business, and not yours. Good day to you, sir."
Good point. However I did see an interview with a senior bod at the WHO who was adamant that the cons outweighed the pros. That basically it was a mental safety blanket in most cases. I assume to become a senior bod at the WHO you should know what you're talking about. I also remember during SARS which was much less wide-spread hearing the same. That masks didn't really do anything. Given that there was no shortage of masks during that it kind of dispels the theory that the reason governments are advising against using them is to leave a bigger supply for health professionals.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Sorry, didn't see you were grinning under your mask
elbows
Well-Known Member
The NHS England data that I have been moaning about not having access to in recent weeks is actually available, yay.
This data will allow me to build a picture of hospital deaths where the date is the actual date of death, rather than the date of reporting. Lag is still there, but unlike the daily overall numbers, the accuracy of past days numbers will improve over time.
www.england.nhs.uk
When time allows, I will try to turn this data into something more instantly readable. How quickly that happens likely depends on how interesting the picture that emerges from my first poke at this turns out to be. Its possibly still a bit early to get the most out of even the March figures, not sure yet.
Obviously this data is only for hospitals so I'll have to merge in ONS data too to get the most complete picture possible, or frankly I could jsut wait a very long time and use the ONS data on its own.
This data will allow me to build a picture of hospital deaths where the date is the actual date of death, rather than the date of reporting. Lag is still there, but unlike the daily overall numbers, the accuracy of past days numbers will improve over time.
Statistics » COVID-19 Daily Deaths
Health and high quality care for all, <br />now and for future generations
When time allows, I will try to turn this data into something more instantly readable. How quickly that happens likely depends on how interesting the picture that emerges from my first poke at this turns out to be. Its possibly still a bit early to get the most out of even the March figures, not sure yet.
Obviously this data is only for hospitals so I'll have to merge in ONS data too to get the most complete picture possible, or frankly I could jsut wait a very long time and use the ONS data on its own.
ska invita
back on the other side
I dont believe you
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