Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[MickiQ]

RE drive-offs :


Drive-offs are all idiots
There's barely a single petrol station in the country that doesn't CCTV them, using ANPR.
They will get traced, unless they're 'smart' enough to be driving a vehicle that isn't theirs, or a vehicle that doesn't currently have an official keeper listed.

It's possible drive-offs know they'll be traced, but also know that catching up with them will take time, so go "Fuck it! Let's take some petrol on tick"

Still idiots though !

It's only a crime if you 'intended' to drive off, forgetting to pay is just that forgetting to pay and the onus is on the petrol station to prove it was intentional.
There is an easy way to totally wipe out fuel theft and that is pay in advance either at the pump wit a card or with cash at the till.
Trouble is most garages aren't keen on that since they get extra income from people coming into the shop and buying more stuff along with their fuel and they would lose most of that trade if people were just sticking cards in the pump and not coming into the shop, the odd drive off is built into their costs.
This is why supermarkets are the big adopters of automated pumps since they sell fuel at cost as a loss leader relying on making money from the punters also doing their shopping at the same time. At least one police force in this country will not even investigate drive offs on the grounds it's not their job to act as debt collection agencies for oil companies.

 

[brogdale]

Just when you thought the clown car couldn't get any worse...guess who's doing the death-toll presser this afternoon?

Spoiler

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's only a crime if you 'intended' to drive off, forgetting to pay is just that forgetting to pay and the onus is on the petrol station to prove it was intentional.

Really? It's very different from shoplifting law, then. If you leave a shop with a thing you haven't paid for, the onus is not on the shop to prove it was intentional - the fact you have left with it in and of itself is taken to indicate intent. Why is this different - once your car has left the premises, that's the same as you having physically left a shop, no?

 

[MickiQ]

Really? It's very different from shoplifting law, then. If you leave a shop with a thing you haven't paid for, the onus is not on the shop to prove it was intentional - the fact you have left with it in and of itself is taken to indicate intent. Why is this different - once your car has left the premises, that's the same as you having physically left a shop, no?

They have to prove it was intentional if they pursue it through a civil case, if plod investigate tis a crime, but a lot of police forces just won't these days including I think the Met

 

[William of Walworth]

you haven't sneezed for 8 weeks AT ALL?

OK I exaggerated a tad , but only slightly.
Answer to the above question : Scarcely, and certainly not within 2 metres of anyone, nor into the open air -- big tissues always available. I've been lucky I suppose.

Hope that's not a problem officer

 

[little_legs]

Such as?

I dont remember such claims, though there probably have been far more nuanced versions expressed from time to time.

For example, I have spoken frequently about the UK orthodox approach which would never do testing on the required scale. I have spoken frequently of my concerns about whether the approach taken by some countries is sustainable, whether their gains will last. None of that means I think testing would be a bad idea, especially given that with our current knowledge, its one of the few things that can unlock more possible options for how we tackle the virus in future.

Its also one of the biggest clues as to what the UK government approach in future is actually going to be - if they dont embrace mass testing etc then it likely means they are still on a modified mitigation approach (ie harder mitigation) rather than a genuine suppression approach.

It wasn't you, if anything you referenced the test, test, test calls a few times on on this and the world covid news thread.

The governor of Veneto has launched a population-wide testing for covid-19, hopefully the UK government will follow suit.

 

[platinumsage]

Really? It's very different from shoplifting law, then. If you leave a shop with a thing you haven't paid for, the onus is not on the shop to prove it was intentional - the fact you have left with it in and of itself is taken to indicate intent. Why is this different - once your car has left the premises, that's the same as you having physically left a shop, no?

There is no special shoplifting law, it's simple theft which requires a dishonest intention.

 

[elbows]

It wasn't you, if anything you referenced the test, test, test calls a few times on on this and the world covid news thread.

The governor of Veneto has launched a population-wide testing for covid-19, hopefully the UK government will follow suit.

Cheers, I never miss a chance to repeat my main points on the subject!

Veneto is in a much better position than many places to make that change to their approach already, because they went further than most with their testing etc earlier on, so they didnt end up in a Lombardy type situation in the first place. I've started collecting data from Lombardy and Veneto in order to see the results more clearly, but I'm not quite ready to share it yet and this is the wrong thread for it. I'll stick it in the Italy thread when I'm ready.

 

[little_legs]

elbows

 

[elbows]

Most opinion polling about coronavirus has suggested the public broadly approves of the government’s handling of the crisis. But that could change as case numbers increase and it comes under greater criticism on the availability of tests and the supply of health equipment.

A Deltapoll poll conducted on 26-27 March found that 75% thought the government was generally doing the right thing when it came to dealing with the coronavirus outbreak – up from 48% in the middle of the month. A similar shift has was found by other pollsters as well.

Levels of approval in the government and the prime minister also increased. For example, at the beginning of March, YouGov found that 33% of voters approved of the government’s record compared to 41% who disapproved. But figures from the end of March showed 52% approval and 26% disapproval.

But a new Ipsos Mori poll, conducted from 27-30 March, might suggest that the British public could be starting to have doubts.

A total of 56% of respondents to the new poll said the restrictive measures put in place by the government on 23 March were taken too late. And only 35% of people said they were taken at the right time, with 4% saying they were taken too early.

From BBC live updates page https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52130552

 

[elbows]

Nosocomial spread was always looking likely to be quite a factor in the UK, and it probably is turning out that way. Another consequence of the terrible testing & PPE situation, and the years of underfunding.

 

[planetgeli]

+569

= 2921

 

[weepiper]

50 more deaths in Scotland since yesterday's numbers. 10 'new' and 40 previously unreported

 

[elbows]

Sounds like Scotland will make some reporting changes too:

Ms Sturgeon also said that there will be changes to the reporting system, with daily figures as of next week to include deaths presumed to be caused by coronavirus as well as those confirmed to be.

45 new coronavirus cases confirmed in Lothians as Scotland death toll rises by 50

New figures have revealed 45 new confirmed case of people with coronavirus in the NHS Lothian area, as the death toll of people with the virus in Scotland increased to 126.

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com

 

[BlanketAddict]

The sun makes me sneeze. I have to be really careful atm stepping out on a sunny day. Usually twice as well, just for added alarm.

Me too!

Dreading Hay Fever season this year...

 

[elbows]

Based on what I saw in the 2009 pandemic, I expected Scotland to do some aspects of public health data communication better than England/the UK overall. I have never had time to research the reasons behind this properly, although I suspect one aspect will involve attitudes including political/governance attitudes, and slightly fewer wanky aspects to their public health orthodoxy.

Today is a good day to mention this, in view of the steps they have taken to improve death data and public confidence in it.

I would invite people to watch at least the first 5 minutes of this video, in order to hear some of this for yourself. There is more detail about how they are going to change the death reporting, and how todays numbers need to be spread out over a wider period of recent history.

And there is other clear, important data that Scotland have been routinely sharing recently mentioned in this speech. I refer specifically to the fact that Sturgeon gives updates about the number of intensive care cases in Scotland, and the number of hospitalisations (which also includes the aforementioned ICU cases).

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Based on what I saw in the 2009 pandemic, I expected Scotland to do some aspects of public health data communication better than England/the UK overall. I have never had time to research the reasons behind this properly, although I suspect one aspect will involve attitudes including political/governance attitudes, and slightly fewer wanky aspects to their public health orthodoxy.

Today is a good day to mention this, in view of the steps they have taken to improve death data and public confidence in it.

I would invite people to watch at least the first 5 minutes of this video, in order to hear some of this for yourself. There is more detail about how they are going to change the death reporting, and how todays numbers need to be spread out over a wider period of recent history.

And there is other clear, important data that Scotland have been routinely sharing recently mentioned in this speech. I refer specifically to the fact that Sturgeon gives updates about the number of intensive care cases in Scotland, and the number of hospitalisations (which also includes the aforementioned ICU cases).

Doesn't surprise me. Not as wrapped up in self-justification as Westminster, for starters. Sturgeon is also personally a very capable operator. Can't think of anyone in the Westminster govt who compares.

 

[elbows]

Doesn't surprise me. Not as wrapped up in self-justification as Westminster, for starters. Sturgeon is also personally a very capable operator. Can't think of anyone in the Westminster govt who compares.

Sturgeon was also the health minister when the 2009 pandemic happened, I think that was the first time I became aware of her.

And yeah, it should come as no surprise that if we want a guide to some of the additional levels of slippery weasel shit that is present in the English/UK establishment, comparisons to Scotland are often illuminating, and a pandemic is no exception.

 

[keybored]

At the height of hayfever season, I can easily let rip ten in a row. What fun that will be.

I'm lucky in that I don't get hay fever, it's just the sun. Normally I enjoy a nice sneeze really, just not so much lately. Oh and not when driving, that can get sketchy.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm lucky in that I don't get hay fever, it's just the sun. Normally I enjoy a nice sneeze really, just not so much lately. Oh and not when driving, that can get sketchy.

Yeah, I sometimes provoke it by looking at a very bright thing. Nothing worse than a sneeze frustrated. Normally.

 

[weltweit]

It seems the UK fashion industry is getting going making clothing and masks for the NHS, or for material suppliers to the NHS as apparently the NHS itself hasn't been so prompt coming forward.

 

[elbows]

I'm linking to this not just because of the Johnson news, but because of something said at the end.

Boris Johnson still has Covid-19 symptoms and may stay in isolation

PM has been self-isolating at No 11 for six days and still has mild symptoms

www.theguardian.com

Downing Street also confirmed the government was looking at the idea of “immunity passports” to allow some people who have had coronavirus to leave the lockdown.

The spokesman said: “That’s something other countries have done. We are always watching what other countries are doing and looking to learn.”

 

[weltweit]

..
How do the Czech numbers compare to anywhere else?
..

SheilaNaGig you can also get an idea of Czech's trend from the below graph:

Covid Trends

Visualizing the exponential growth of COVID-19 across the world.

aatishb.com

You can add or remove countries from the plot at the right hand side, China and South Korea display results that show them escaping exponential growth while UK, Italy Spain, Germany USA all are still stuck in it, Czech numbers don't look so great though on this particular chart, although they are starting to be below the curve.

 

[elbows]

Regarding what I was saying earlier about Scotland, there are more details about the deaths reporting changes and issues in this piece:

Scottish Government changes how COVID-19 deaths are counted

In future “suspected” deaths both in hospital and in the community will be counted in the official figures

www.holyrood.com

Not that I'm claiming Scotland is perfect, later in that piece the resistance to a new strategy based on massively increased testing capacity is quite apparent.

She estimated that capacity for testing across Scotland at present was around 1,900 a day, and the Scottish Government aimed to up that capacity to 3,000 a day “by the end of April”.

But Calderwood said debate over Scotland and the UK’s ability to test high numbers of people was a “distraction” from what measures were required to slow the spread of the virus.

Asked by a journalist if she accepted the Scottish and UK governments had underperformed on testing, especially compared with countries like Germany, Sturgeon said “no”.

She added: “It’s important we don’t overstate what testing can and can’t achieve.”

Calderwood said she had been warning “for several weeks now” about “the distraction that testing could become”

She said: “The thought that it somehow slows the virus or is a part of strategy to prevent transmission is a fallacy, I’m afraid.

“The testing gives us more info, but the social distancing measures are what we actually need to prevent the spread and prevent serious illness and death.”

Sturgeon said the government would look again at the role that testing could play once the lockdown measures began to be lifted. But she said she would not be drawn in to speculation as to when that would be.

 

[Petcha]

Does Matt Hancock seem a bit breathless and shaky or is it just me

 

[elbows]

Does Matt Hancock seem a bit breathless and shaky or is it just me

I avoided watching him so much in the past that I find myself without a baseline to measure his current state against.

 

[Petcha]

I avoided watching him so much in the past that I find myself without a baseline to measure his current state against.

He's normally a very smooth operator. He's stumbling over his words and his voice is shaky.

 

[elbows]

Confessional level of detail about why the testing has been shit so far. No existing heritage of massive diagnostics capacity got a mention, including a comparison to Germany, so I can stop going on about that point now.

 

[Numbers]

Has he just wiped the NHS debt?

 

[elbows]

Sounds like some of the tests they were looking at ordering have failed their validation tests.