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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

Have done so, but as I said when it first appeared, for me, this is the key quote:-

I don't sentimentalize these things. I can accept hard-headed calculations for not building shelters, both pre-WW2 and in the Cold War. In both cases, it would've been a massive undertaking of dubious value (the "bomber will always get through" thinking of the '30s had planners convinced that air raids would be apocalyptic; and even with Swiss levels of shelter provisions, how viable would survival be after a nuclear assault?).

I still see the crucial difference lying in the government doing everything in its power to avert the calamity it was ill-prepared for. When it came, in WW2, policy did shift, however sluggishly: after taking matters into their own hands, Londoners were allowed into the Tube, and deep shelters were eventually built (I've been in one, and it's an awesome undertaking).

I'd feel very differently if everything had been thrown at containment and it'd failed. But it wasn't.

Probably what would help would be to find stuff that would enable the study of UK establishment responses to previous pandemics, epidemics and public health emergencies. I've mostly only had time and brain space to go on about a couple of specific aspects of the 2009 swine flu pandemic response, and I'm unlikely to find time during this pandemic to investigate other examples, although I have name-dropped BSE in the past, and the infected blood scandal. But I would be surprised if there were not penty of other candidates out there that would give more than a glimpse of cold calculations applied directly to public health and epidemics.
 
I'm not linking to this article because it is especially good, but mostly because it brings together a bunch of different media criticisms of Johnson and a bit of a simplified timeline of the evolving press attitudes.


At the beginning of last week came the third phase: overt hostility. It was unsurprising to find the anti-Tory Daily Mirror in the vanguard with its accusation that Johnson and his government “were criminally slow to respond to the threat” and lamenting the “mixed messages and an absence of clarity”.

But the “Boris distancing” took hold even in papers previously sympathetic to the government’s plight and even in those noted as fervent cheerleaders for Johnson. Look, for instance, at the Sun’s unexpectedly pointed criticism in a leading article which echoed the Mirror’s viewpoint.

It took Johnson to task for taking far too long in enacting legislation to enforce social distancing. “The Sun,” it said, “has largely backed the Downing Street response so far … But there is a shambolic ‘on the hoof’ feel to it now.”

Another whose faith was shaken, was one of Johnson’s most enthusiastic press supporters, the aforementioned title’s political columnist, Trevor Kavanagh. Looking to a future public inquiry into the handling of the crisis, he suggested a likely outcome: “It may be that Boris Johnson was too soft, too trusting, too unwilling to make hard choices.”

If Kavanagh’s jibe surprised No 10, then the Times’s leader last Monday must have come as a shock. Johnson’s performance “has been chequered”. Why had he “disappeared from view” in February? Why had he failed to preside over the first Cobra meeting to discuss the pandemic? Why, even as the scale became apparent, did he not take greater measures? The Times’s conclusion was laced with sarcasm: “The country needs to know that Mr Johnson has a coherent strategy. Otherwise the prime minister who dreamt of being Churchill may find himself cast as Neville Chamberlain.”

At the end of the week, the Daily Mail joined the growing chorus of disapproval by accusing the government of having been “lamentably behind the curve” and urging it to “raise its game … fast”. The Sunday Times took a similar line. Why had Britain not tested as widely and efficiently as Germany?

The Observer was amazed at the lack of testing kits, as it was with the failure to procure extra stocks of ventilators and personal protective equipment.
 
Probably what would help would be to find stuff that would enable the study of UK establishment responses to previous pandemics, epidemics and public health emergencies. I've mostly only had time and brain space to go on about a couple of specific aspects of the 2009 swine flu pandemic response, and I'm unlikely to find time during this pandemic to investigate other examples, although I have name-dropped BSE in the past, and the infected blood scandal. But I would be surprised if there were not penty of other candidates out there that would give more than a glimpse of cold calculations applied directly to public health and epidemics.
The blood scandal is exactly what I expect from governments left to their own devices: insufficient funding for a service affecting a minority leading to reckless stopgaps and, when their negligence leads to tragedy, a cover-up. I guess a rough equivalent with the current situation would be if they'd gone out to deliberately infect people in some kinda bizarre medical experiment. Such horrors have certainly happened in democratic states (the Tuskegee syphilis experiment being perhaps the most infamous example), but can't recall one done so openly, and affecting so many.
 


Fair play to him. Quickly become a central part of our daily routine and now donating all his takings to the NHS.

Us too, that gives me even more motivation to continue, so thanks, good to know. And it differentiates the weekdays from the weekend what with all days being essentially the same now, keeps the pattern of 'it's a schoolday'.
 
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There was some discussion before the weekend of this thread becoming too unweildly. I agree. I'd like to keep up with UK developments, but decided to give myself a couple of day 'corona-news-free' over the weekend for the sake of my mh/sanity. Coming back to the thread this morning there's 15 pages to catch up on (given that up now).

I think there are many posts here that would be more suited to the Pandemic Personal consequences thread, the Covid chat thread, or the memes thread. It would be good imo if this thread could just be kept to national information and discussion of policy and lockdown issues. I know it's tricky when a conversation runs off in tangental directions, but could we? It's hard to pick out the relevant posts from amongst the more 'chat' type content.

(I may have contradicted what I've just said by replying to the Body Coach post above :facepalm: , but yeah, going forward...).
 
I agree, some of these threads are getting quite full of inappropriate posts, I'm reading and keeping on top of this as much as possible, but some of the threads are becoming unwieldy. Is there a way of managing this?
 
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Sadly I don't think so, it would be like trying to herd cats.
But maybe chat type posts could be reported for a passing mod to move to a more suitable thread? Assuming they have the time/inclination, I know things must be busier right now, there's a lot more traffic. And a reminder in thread from a mod to keep this thread for more serious discussion?
 
There was some discussion before the weekend of this thread becoming too unweildly. I agree. I'd like to keep up with UK developments, but decided to give myself a couple of day 'corona-news-free' over the weekend for the sake of my mh/sanity. Coming back to the thread this morning there's 15 pages to catch up on (given that up now).

I think there are many posts here that would be more suited to the Pandemic Personal consequences thread, the Covid chat thread, or the memes thread. It would be good imo if this thread could just be kept to national information and discussion of policy and lockdown issues. I know it's tricky when a conversation runs off in tangental directions, but could we? It's hard to pick out the relevant posts from amongst the more 'chat' type content.

(I may have contradicted what I've just said by replying to the Body Coach post above :facepalm: , but yeah, going forward...).

As I said upthread I reckon it might be helpful to have a 'UK lockdown and general chat', as well as this as something like 'UK news, science and policy'. Separating out lockdown as stuff like the NHS clap, and 'I've seen people doing x' generate a huge amount of chatter.
 
But maybe chat type posts could be reported for a passing mod to move to a more suitable thread? Assuming they have the time/inclination, I know things must be busier right now, there's a lot more traffic. And a reminder in thread from a mod to keep this thread for more serious discussion?

May be an idea to start a thread in the feedback forum for suggestions of how the situation could be improved, I am suggesting you do, as you were the first to raise it above. :)

It would also stop us taking this thread further off topic. :thumbs:
 
To be exact, and to avoid sticky creep:

This thread > UK News, science and policy
General Coronavirus (Covid-19) Chat > General Coronavirus and UK lockdown chat
Merge the two help threads... This one is a little tricky, but I think the 'offers of help' thread is probably a bit bloated to be useful anyway. We could just de-sticky that and people can look it up as a reference if they need to.
 
I'm supposed to be in court this week to give a witness statement but they can't make me, can they, what with self-isolating? Not even sure if courts are open. Haven't had a phone call.
Court situation evolving & really strange. Lawyers of twitter have been going mental for at least a week with the lack of clear guidance from gov but basically i think almost everything is being done remotely now.

eta its more complicated than that. Some essential hearings still going on face to face ..
 
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Thousands of EasyJet and Virgin airline staff are being offered work at the new NHS Nightingale Hospital in east London.

Those who sign up will support nurses and clinicians at the coronavirus field hospital, the NHS said.

Virgin Atlantic said furloughed staff who helped would be paid through the government retention scheme.
 
What was the thinking behind the herd immunity plan? Interesting Q&A on Reddit with a 'UK Critical Care Physician':

So maybe there would be some merit to this theory but to enact it with a desperately underfunded NHS that cant cope with a normal flu season is reckless in the extreme.
I say this respectfully but do you not think it might just be that it’s really fucking hard doing that job? People are so quick to jump in damning others, but it’s the man in the arena that counts. It’s like on the frontline of the NHS, mistakes will be made, but if your standing on the sidelines criticising, well...

I’m no Tory but I don’t think they are evil or completely incompetent. And I absolutely definitely think their aim is to preserve life.



Cygnus was a simulation exercise carried out in October 2016[1] to estimate the impact of a hypothetical influenza pandemic on the United Kingdom. The exercise showed that the pandemic would cause the country's health system to collapse from a lack of resources,[2][3] with the Chief Medical Officer at the time stating that a lack of medical ventilators was a serious problem.[4]

I don't think a Labour government would have met this report with inaction.
 
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