Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[existentialist]

The government have whole corridors full of people whose job it is to monitor the public mood don't they, so they must know that when they say things like 'the British public love freedom and would not accept any restrictions' they must know it's untrue
View attachment 293836

As ever, they are choosing to cherrypick which aspects of public opinion support their already-decided approach, and they simply discount the views which don't.

 

[brogdale]

The government have whole corridors full of people whose job it is to monitor the public mood don't they, so they must know that when they say things like 'the British public love freedom and would not accept any restrictions' they must know it's untrue
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The difference between 'knowing' and caring.

 

[BobDavis]

We have started wearing masks in shops again. I notice in local supermarkets mask wearing is now well over 50%. Much higher than that a few weeks ago. We have always used washable cloth masks but I thought we might upgrade. So a bit of research & it appears the proper light blue disposable masks as used by the NHS etc are IIR masks cost around £10 for 50. They are supposed to stop 98% of incoming droplets. Certainly the most comfortable masks I have worn.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Think this has been shared before but it's useful on masks so with sharing again
Trisha Greenhalgh (@trishgreenhalgh) Tweeted:
LONG THREAD on masks. Mute if not interested.
Do masks work? Why do some people claim they don’t work? Do they cause harm? What kinds of masks should we wear? How does masking need to change now we know that Covid is airborne? When can we stop wearing them?
Get your popcorn.
1/

 

[Miss-Shelf]

From that long thread on masks

 

[cupid_stunt]

What with the data from Israel, showing excellent outcomes from booster jabs, there's also the preliminary results from the first randomised, controlled trial on boosters, that came out this week, it's no wonder the government is putting so much faith in them, although it still seems crazy not to mandate masks now, and certainly until the roll-out is speeded-up and hopefully we see results like this.



29th August was when Israel started roiling out booster jabs to everyone over 12.

In a trial with 10,000 participants who had all completed a two-shot Pfizer regimen, half were randomised to receive a further equal-strength dose of the shot, and half a placebo. Five cases of Covid were registered in patients receiving the booster compared with 109 who were given a placebo.

FT link (paywalled).

That's bloody impressive, seriously reducing transmission, and should give us hope.

In other words, third doses are highly effective at preventing people from becoming infected with Delta, among those who are willing to be vaccinated. When third doses dramatically reduce a person’s susceptibility to infection, it creates a barrier to the onward transmission and spread of the virus. This is important because growing numbers of people are getting infected despite being vaccinated (though the risks of infection, spread and severe illness remain greatest among those who are unvaccinated). And they have similar peak levels of virus in their noses to those who are unvaccinated, contributing to the unrelenting spread of the virus.

Third doses stimulate the production of neutralising antibodies that are both higher in magnitude and have greater breadth against viral variants than those elicited by a second dose. Taken together, booster jabs aren’t just an immune refresher – they are an immunological upgrade. These superior neutralising antibody responses create an immunological buffer that is effective even against the Sars-CoV-2 Delta variant, explaining the dramatic reduction in risk of infection following third doses in Israel. The same buffer would be expected to reduce the need for frequent “boosting” in the future, as higher levels of neutralising antibodies are predicted to confer longer-lasting immunity.

The message from Israel is clear: Covid booster shots should be standard | David O’Connor

A third dose of the vaccine provides significant protection, says pathology professor David O’Connor

www.theguardian.com

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

We have started wearing masks in shops again. I notice in local supermarkets mask wearing is now well over 50%. Much higher than that a few weeks ago. We have always used washable cloth masks but I thought we might upgrade. So a bit of research & it appears the proper light blue disposable masks as used by the NHS etc are IIR masks cost around £10 for 50. They are supposed to stop 98% of incoming droplets. Certainly the most comfortable masks I have worn.

I think that is 98% outgoing, th enext level up (FFP2 masks) have to be 94% incoming or better.

 

[Sue]

We have started wearing masks in shops again. I notice in local supermarkets mask wearing is now well over 50%. Much higher than that a few weeks ago. We have always used washable cloth masks but I thought we might upgrade. So a bit of research & it appears the proper light blue disposable masks as used by the NHS etc are IIR masks cost around £10 for 50. They are supposed to stop 98% of incoming droplets. Certainly the most comfortable masks I have worn.

Out of interest, why did you stop?

 

[kabbes]

Most families I know with kids around here have had it at some point the last two to three weeks

 

[BobDavis]

Out of interest, why did you stop?

I had a really bad bout of Covid over last Xmas which was the worst & most painful experience of my life & my partner same age 68 also got it but she was not that ill so we really paid attention to getting vacced & double vacced soon as we could. At the time the consensus appeared to be that if you had previously caught Covid then got double vacced you were pretty much protected. So when the law allowed we just got out of the habit of masks.

What has happened is as well as Covid now there is a really bad cold virus going around which we both got about 10days ago. On top of that we had flu vacs booked for last Sat which cause some side effects & yesterday we got the booster & side effects of that with everything else we are both feeling like utter shit but hope to be ok in a few days. So I have woke up my ideas. This is not even nearly over so back to masks & proper disposable ones not cloth masks that we just washed over & over again.

Edit to add. Yes we have done several self tests this week all negative so we have bad colds not Covid.

 

[_Russ_]

At the time the consensus appeared to be that if you had previously caught Covid then got double vacced you were pretty much protected. So when the law allowed we just got out of the habit of masks

Were you at all aware that mask wearing has a greater protection for others not to catch it from you? and that you could be carrying it without knowing?..... y'know like whats been repeatedly stated for months.

 

[Wilf]

What with the data from Israel, showing excellent outcomes from booster jabs, there's also the preliminary results from the first randomised, controlled trial on boosters, that came out this week, it's no wonder the government is putting so much faith in them, although it still seems crazy not to mandate masks now, and certainly until the roll-out is speeded-up and hopefully we see results like this.

View attachment 293844

29th August was when Israel started roiling out booster jabs to everyone over 12.



That's bloody impressive, seriously reducing transmission, and should give us hope.

The message from Israel is clear: Covid booster shots should be standard | David O’Connor

A third dose of the vaccine provides significant protection, says pathology professor David O’Connor

www.theguardian.com

That is good news. It's not only good news in terms of actual protection, but also psychology. If I knew I and the bulk of people I'd be interacting with were triple jabbed, I'd feel happier about doing more. I've felt my confidence about going to places declining with the rise in cases and the news on declining protection from the double jab.

Just one thing though, I'd have thought the triple jab in Israel would be an unlikely cause for much of that decline in cases. The programme only started at the end of August and I presume it takes a week or two for the 3x jab to have an effect? But that aside, some good news.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Just one thing though, I'd have thought the triple jab in Israel would be an unlikely cause for much of that decline in cases. The programme only started at the end of August and I presume it takes a week or two for the 3x jab to have an effect? But that aside, some good news.

It was the end of August when they opened up booster jabs for everyone, 2 million older people had had one by that time.

 

[elbows]

Just remember to add Israels other measures to the picture. Their dropping of mask rules only lasted mere days in June. Their mood music became gloomy throughout the period, and they reintroduced an even stronger version of vaccine passports in August. I think they are also making the booster shots a requirement of these passes but I've lost track of what stage that change is at.

As of August 20, “Green Passes” are required to enter restaurants, public pools, museums or any other public place besides parks. The pass is issued to people who have received two vaccine doses or who have recovered from coronavirus. But unlike in the past, children who are not eligible to get vaccinated must have the pass, too.

Israel struggles with COVID surge despite mass vaccinations

Israelis flouting mask requirements may have been a main contributor to the rapid spread of the Delta variant in Israel.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Wilf]

It was the end of August when they opened up booster jabs for everyone, 2 million older people had had one by that time.

Yeah, I'm not denying the effect, just thinking there must have been other things in play with that rapid decline in cases.

 

[David Clapson]

What's the current thinking on how to avoid getting it if you go to a high risk place, i.e. somewhere very crowded with poor ventilation?

 

[_Russ_]

Probably something like dont go to a high risk place thats very crowded with poor ventilation...failing that,the same as its been for the last fucking year...... wear a mask.
I can't believe this far into this shit people still have to ask questions like this.

 

[CH1]

Probably something like dont go to a high risk place thats very crowded with poor ventilation...failing that,the same as its been for the last fucking year...... wear a mask.
I can't believe this far into this shit people still have to ask questions like this.

You say that - but heard an MP on TV a couple of days ago recommending opening some windows.
Not possible in many public places of course - and if at home carries the added bonus of ultra high gas bill this year.

 

[Thora]

As well as our schools going back to masks and bubbles, I've seen in the last couple of days a local Autumn fair and a couple of children's Halloween events have chosen to cancel. Even if the govt. aren't going with plan B it seems like communities might be taking it upon themselves to reintroduce restrictions.

 

[smmudge]

As well as our schools going back to masks and bubbles, I've seen in the last couple of days a local Autumn fair and a couple of children's Halloween events have chosen to cancel. Even if the govt. aren't going with plan B it seems like communities might be taking it upon themselves to reintroduce restrictions.

Yeah that has been the story of the pandemic really, I notice people change their behaviour first then the government bring in restrictions because everyone's basically already doing it.

 

[zora]

What's the current thinking on how to avoid getting it if you go to a high risk place, i.e. somewhere very crowded with poor ventilation?

Be double or triple-vaccinated, wear FFP2-mask.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Be double or triple-vaccinated, wear FFP2-mask.

Or even ffp3 mask

 

[two sheds]

Probably something like dont go to a high risk place thats very crowded with poor ventilation...failing that,the same as its been for the last fucking year...... wear a mask.
I can't believe this far into this shit people still have to ask questions like this.

Not a good reply to someone asking question in good faith. We shouldn't be discouraging people from asking questions.

 

[l'Otters]

We have started wearing masks in shops again. I notice in local supermarkets mask wearing is now well over 50%. Much higher than that a few weeks ago. We have always used washable cloth masks but I thought we might upgrade. So a bit of research & it appears the proper light blue disposable masks as used by the NHS etc are IIR masks cost around £10 for 50. They are supposed to stop 98% of incoming droplets. Certainly the most comfortable masks I have worn.

If your washable cloth ones fit well you’d be best off continuing to use them, you can up the effectiveness by wearing a disposable blue paper one underneath. The fabric of the blue pleated ones filters very well but they hardly ever fit well, takes them down to abiut 46% effectiveness iirc from some comparative testing. Add a decent fitting cloth mask over the top and that goes right up. Dr Fauci was strongly recommending double masking earlier in the year.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

What's the current thinking on how to avoid getting it if you go to a high risk place, i.e. somewhere very crowded with poor ventilation?

don't breathe
not helpful, I know, but best advice I can give at this point in my general joe knowledge status.
e2a: a bit tipsy after coming back from working in one of those places, FFP2 mask for me all evening with a singalong young crowd in the house

 

[8ball]

Main thing about being somewhere crowded with poor ventilation is not to be there very long if possible. The amount of time spent there is a major factor in the degree of risk, and I’m not sure proper weight is given to this.

If you need to be there for any length of time, the kind of protection needed gets considerably more advanced than a cloth mask, and if you really need to be there for a long time, they should really have their own advice on the level of protection recommended (though what has been said here is good).

 

[cupid_stunt]

Looks like the government is getting ready for introducing 'Plan B'.

In the clearest sign to date that Whitehall is actively considering additional measures, the Observer has learnt that the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) contacted local authorities on Friday to canvass their level of support for the “immediate rollout of the winter plan – plan B”.

Boris Johnson has so far publicly resisted suggestions that he should order the implementation of plan B, a menu of measures which includes the use of vaccine passports at higher-risk venues and mass gatherings, as well as legally mandating the use of face masks in some settings.

However, in a memo marked “official – sensitive”, the agency states that it was urgently seeking the views of council chief executives and leaders to be fed directly into the Cabinet Office. “This is a tight turnaround as you might appreciate and so a response by close of play would be really helpful,” it states.

UK government paves way to bring in tough ‘plan B’ Covid rules

Councils consulted over support for measures such as vaccine passports amid warnings by senior doctors that NHS faces winter illness ‘triple whammy’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Looks like the government is getting ready for introducing 'Plan B'.

UK government paves way to bring in tough ‘plan B’ Covid rules

Councils consulted over support for measures such as vaccine passports amid warnings by senior doctors that NHS faces winter illness ‘triple whammy’

www.theguardian.com

Who would have guessed?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Plus, changes to the booking system are coming, so people will be able to book a booster jab appointment up to a month in advance of when it's due.

Currently people are able to book a booster jab six months after their second dose and that could mean waiting two or three weeks more, with the average an 18 day wait for an appointment.

This delay is believed to be an important reason why only around 4.5 million of 9.3 million eligible in England have had the booster.

The new plan, which government sources have told the Mail on Sunday will be put in place as quickly as possible, will see people over 50 able to book their appointment in advance, so they can have the booster immediately after six months.

'Millions more Brits to get Covid booster as over-50s can book month earlier'

Health Secretary Sajid Javid has reportedly told the NHS to allow people over 50 to book their third jab a month earlier so that they can have the booster vaccine after six months

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[StoneRoad]

The slow-wits have missed the ideal opportunity for a "fire-break" - that would have been two / three weeks around the October half-term.

I really don't think that vaccines can control the plague on their own.
But, not enough of the population are yet vaccinated.
Nor are there enough people willing to use masks etc without some element of compulsion
(thanks, maggie for destroying the social contacts that underpin community spirit).

So, at some point, preferably before the NHS melts down, they are going to have to use "Plan B"