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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

I havent done a very thorough job of looking into Chile yet after it came up in the press conference on Monday. I've just read articles like this one, where the importance of lockdown timing and not coming out of lockdown at the wrong time to get infection levels low, uncertainty about how well some vaccines work, and problems with peoples perception of personal pandemic risk in the vaccination phase get a look in.

 
I don't know whether anyone else obsessively pours over this website, but I do.


I've been watching my own area, which has been going up and down, but is pretty good now. The outbreak at a village primary school turned one patch dark blue, but appears to have subsided, and it's all good again here.

More importantly, looking at today's map, in the closest zoom, there is not one red patch anywhere in the UK that I can see (red being a rolling rate of 400 cases or more per 100,000 population). That's excellent news I think.

Regionally speaking the previous "worst bit of the south", Portland Bill (cos of the prisons there?) is now fewer than 6 cases across the two areas.

Nationally, at a medium zoom level, there are more yellow bits appearing everywhere and only a couple of blue bits.

Long may this downward trajectory continue.
 
God no, avoid that shit altogether and just get on with things. Why make yourself anxious?
I don't get anxious about it, just aware of the risk levels locally, and "uplifted" a bit by the falling rates. It is helpful. Mrs mx visits her very elderly parents every week in London - does their shopping and stuff. I've been able to show her that map and say "look at this - do their shopping here, where it's light green, and not in Hayes where it's dark blue". Risk management, that's all.

But yes, I have been over obsessing about it, a bit.
 
God no, avoid that shit altogether and just get on with things. Why make yourself anxious?
Yeah, same here. I love data and numbers, but unless you have some kind of professional or special interest in this kind of stuff then it just strikes me as boring and anxiety inducing.

I switched off from all the numbers etc after the first month.
 
I don't get anxious about it, just aware of the risk levels locally, and "uplifted" a bit by the falling rates. It is helpful. Mrs mx visits her very elderly parents every week in London - does their shopping and stuff. I've been able to show her that map and say "look at this - do their shopping here, where it's light green, and not in Hayes where it's dark blue". Risk management, that's all.

But yes, I have been over obsessing about it, a bit.
It’s not risk management. Go to the shops, wear a mask and all be well.
 
Yeah, same here. I love data and numbers, but unless you have some kind of professional or special interest in this kind of stuff then it just strikes me as boring and anxiety inducing.

I keep a close eye on it, because local case numbers have a big impact on my work & income, as it does for a lot of self-employed people I know, e.g. as case numbers rocket, trades that work indoors not only see new enquiries dropping off the scale, but also have people putting off jobs that were booked in, as they don't want strangers in their homes.

When cases drop, people's confidence soon returns, and we start getting busy again, I've just had my best 3 weeks since the start of this shit. :thumbs:
 
I havent done a very thorough job of looking into Chile yet after it came up in the press conference on Monday. I've just read articles like this one, where the importance of lockdown timing and not coming out of lockdown at the wrong time to get infection levels low, uncertainty about how well some vaccines work, and problems with peoples perception of personal pandemic risk in the vaccination phase get a look in.


A lot of warnings from (very recent) history there. Its hard to see how this government won't lead us straight down the same path as Chile. The border issue being the most obvious fuck up on the horizon but no doubt there will plenty more.
 
Isn't it just numbers? I read that article and Chile may be "leading Latin America" but they hadn't actually vaccinated a large proportion of their population, there was a pretty big difference.

Israel has given two shots to over 50%, Chile one shot to 30%. And borders have been open for five months so that will have been a lot less then.

But then this article puts the proportion loads higher, so who knows Chile imposes lockdowns to fight new Covid wave despite vaccination success
 
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Isn't it just numbers?

Not necessarily. There is the timing of reopening and the extent of how much was reopened. There is the situation regarding borders and international travel. Also there is Chilli's use of two different vaccines and the questions that arise from that.

Of the differing approach both countries have taken I'd say the odds are overwhelmingly stacked against Johnson taking the Israeli approach.
 
Not necessarily. There is the timing of reopening and the extent of how much was reopened. There is the situation regarding borders and international travel. Also there is Chilli's use of two different vaccines and the questions that arise from that.

Of the differing approach both countries have taken I'd say the odds are overwhelmingly stacked against Johnson taking the Israeli approach.

Well I'd say the main Chile vaccination question is not really about the fact they are using more than once vaccine, but rather how effective one of those vaccines is in particular against severe disease and transmission.

As some articles point out, the differences in timing and extent of lockdown etc measures which push infection numbers to a low level mean that even in Israel, we havent really seen how much pandemic weight the vaccines can carry on their own. The UK may end up being the one to really demonstrate how much weight vaccines can carry on their own.

The Johnson timetable is somewhat cautious, at least in the first few phases of unlocking. And its at least clear that this time around we are buying something with that time - increased protection via more vaccination. But ideally we'd also see that time being used to push infections down to a much lower level than the actual unlocking detail and public attitudes are likely to afford us. Maybe levels will still go down to the extent I want to see, but again we'll be relying on vaccination to get us there rather than by other means. Certainly since the peak passed I'd describe most of the numbers as impressive, I dont think I could have hoped for greater falls in all the key numbers than we have seen.

Anyway as the modelling discussed the other day shows, it is reasonable to expect a third wave but there is a huge range of possibilities as to what size it will be. If could look like a bump that people hardly consider to count as a third wave, or it could yet resemble the waves we've already endured. I dont have a prediction, neither extreme or anywhere in between would be surprising. The main thing that could surprise me would be if the timing was much earlier than the modelling implies, since I am currently expecting there to be a period where I'm not anxiously expecting a wave to emerge any day now. Like my stance last June where I kept going on about the time it takes for viral resurgence to really get going, where I'm not gripped by a sense of imminent doom.
 
Well I'd say the main Chile vaccination question is not really about the fact they are using more than once vaccine, but rather how effective one of those vaccines is in particular against severe disease and transmission.

As some articles point out, the differences in timing and extent of lockdown etc measures which push infection numbers to a low level mean that even in Israel, we havent really seen how much pandemic weight the vaccines can carry on their own. The UK may end up being the one to really demonstrate how much weight vaccines can carry on their own.

The Johnson timetable is somewhat cautious, at least in the first few phases of unlocking. And its at least clear that this time around we are buying something with that time - increased protection via more vaccination. But ideally we'd also see that time being used to push infections down to a much lower level than the actual unlocking detail and public attitudes are likely to afford us. Maybe levels will still go down to the extent I want to see, but again we'll be relying on vaccination to get us there rather than by other means. Certainly since the peak passed I'd describe most of the numbers as impressive, I dont think I could have hoped for greater falls in all the key numbers than we have seen.

Anyway as the modelling discussed the other day shows, it is reasonable to expect a third wave but there is a huge range of possibilities as to what size it will be. If could look like a bump that people hardly consider to count as a third wave, or it could yet resemble the waves we've already endured. I dont have a prediction, neither extreme or anywhere in between would be surprising. The main thing that could surprise me would be if the timing was much earlier than the modelling implies, since I am currently expecting there to be a period where I'm not anxiously expecting a wave to emerge any day now. Like my stance last June where I kept going on about the time it takes for viral resurgence to really get going, where I'm not gripped by a sense of imminent doom.
i was thinking today how catastrophic a long third wave would be. of course that goes without saying. but if someone told me i have to lockdown for another 3 or 4 months after june say, i honestly don't know if i have enough in the tank to do it. and i consider myself osmeone who has coped reasonably well.
 
i was thinking today how catastrophic a long third wave would be. of course that goes without saying. but if someone told me i have to lockdown for another 3 or 4 months after june say, i honestly don't know if i have enough in the tank to do it. and i consider myself osmeone who has coped reasonably well.

The lockdown decision equations have probably evolved substantially. eg consider these sorts of factors:

We saw how slowly and incompletely they decided to tackle the 2nd wave, especially for its initial months where numbers were increasing in slow motion compared to the visible part of the first wave. Really explosive growth in daily hospitalisations was required before they would blink and u-turn, and even then they delayed as much as they could.

The politics and public perceptions of risk have further evolved since the previous waves. This is a complex subject which can push things in either direction, eg if you expect less public complaince with the basic rules, lower personal perceptions of risk, then stronger application of the brakes in other areas may be required. But they also hesitate to impose restrictions that they think huge numbers of people will ignore, they dont want to open cans of worms where the public call their bluff on compliance to a much greater extent than seen previously.

Large prior waves of infection and mass vaccination have moved the population immunity picture onwards. This moves certain calculations closer to their original pre-mid-March 2020 hopes of pursuing a herd immunity approach than they were before. This will tempt them to push on and to be slower on the brakes, although there are still limits. All the modelling that shows waves has the level of remaining population susceptibility at its heart, and that variable has changed over time, now more than ever via vaccination programmes and how big the first 2 waves were.

They have done some work setting this scene by changing rhetoric, eg downplaying R and overall infection rates, and more talk of learning to live with Covid. And making clear that they expect some level of death to be ongoing.

They will hope that seasonal factors and things like schools being closed for summer holidays will take some of the strain that would have otherwise needed to be handled via more direct application of the brakes.

In conclusion I cannot promise no more lockdowns, timetable delays or u-turns. Because of the complexities of the stuff I just mentioned, but also because of unknowns in terms of mutants with the ability to escape vaccine-induced protection. But I can say that their equations have evolved, they've got more wiggle room, and they've demonstrated in the 2nd wave what they will use that wiggle room to avoid doing for as long as possible. And with theoretical light at the end of the tunnel, the temptation to stretch such inaction even further will be high. What I cannot judge yet is whether that sense of the end game being in sight will cause them to be more cautious and pro-active at any point. They did seem to take account of it when coming up with the fairly slow relaxation timetable. Perhaps in future, for example, fairly short circuit-breakers that they previously resisted may seem more appealing under certain scenarios this time around, if they think there is a bump they can almost manage looming, and just want to take the edge off it so that it falls within manageable limits.
 
Also ever since we ended up in the vaccination era I've covered my back by going on about the risks of asking the vaccines to carry all of the pandemic burden, and how possible scenarios exist where the public will get an ugly lesson on this. But I do not consider it to be completely inevitable that this will happen, far from it. So I'm not a doom-monger about a third wave. But nor am I complacent. Personally I am in 'recharge mental batteries' mode right now, similar to last June & July, and I will carry on getting deeper into that mode until/unless a time comes where the data means I have to ready myself for another wave of note. I've gone on about these details in recent days because they came up in conversation here, but also so that I can get them out of my system now and then chill for an unknown length of time.
 
I don't get anxious about it, just aware of the risk levels locally, and "uplifted" a bit by the falling rates. It is helpful. Mrs mx visits her very elderly parents every week in London - does their shopping and stuff. I've been able to show her that map and say "look at this - do their shopping here, where it's light green, and not in Hayes where it's dark blue". Risk management, that's all.

But yes, I have been over obsessing about it, a bit.

I don't obsess about it but I do check them every day. I'm looking for hope to be honest. Hope that this will one day all be over.

It's also nice to look at local figures, especially as Reading has now gone over a month without a death, which is nice.
 
I really don't get this thing about going on holiday. I understand that people want to get away and I feel sorry for people who have family abroad but ffs, we aren't out of this yet and people are stressing about if they can have two weeks in a country that is possibly mid way through a third wave. People need some perspective! We can't get our haircut or go and buy clothes yet!
 
I really don't get this thing about going on holiday. I understand that people want to get away and I feel sorry for people who have family abroad but ffs, we aren't out of this yet and people are stressing about if they can have two weeks in a country that is possibly mid way through a third wave. People need some perspective! We can't get our haircut or go and buy clothes yet!
The holiday obsession is so weird. I'm just looking forward to be being able to go out and sit in a cafe and have a drink and a bit of food.
 
I really don't get this thing about going on holiday. I understand that people want to get away and I feel sorry for people who have family abroad but ffs, we aren't out of this yet and people are stressing about if they can have two weeks in a country that is possibly mid way through a third wave. People need some perspective! We can't get our haircut or go and buy clothes yet!
There are people going to raves in Tanzania ffs!
 
I really don't get this thing about going on holiday. I understand that people want to get away and I feel sorry for people who have family abroad but ffs, we aren't out of this yet and people are stressing about if they can have two weeks in a country that is possibly mid way through a third wave. People need some perspective! We can't get our haircut or go and buy clothes yet!
I'm tempted to suggest the focus on foreign holidays is being driven more by economic interests than the genuine concerns of most people.

It's not as if there's no precedent for that where coverage of this pandemic is concerned...
 
I'm tempted to suggest the focus on foreign holidays is being driven more by economic interests than the genuine concerns of most people.

It's not as if there's no precedent for that where coverage of this pandemic is concerned...

Absolutely. When easyjet are whinging about the two tests being too expensive and shouldn't be needed for green list countries its very transparent.

Also on this traffic light system how dumb is that? Any country that is considered green by its nature won't be green for very long and by the time anyone notices it'll be too late. I've read suggestions that they would give prior warning that a country is about to change status on the traffic light system... Its like the last 12 months haven't happened and Johnson is Sisyphus.
 
Absolutely. When easyjet are whinging about the two tests being too expensive and shouldn't be needed for green list countries its very transparent.

Also on this traffic light system how dumb is that? Any country that is considered green by its nature won't be green for very long and by the time anyone notices it'll be too late. I've read suggestions that they would give prior warning that a country is about to change status on the traffic light system... Its like the last 12 months haven't happened and Johnson is Sisyphus.
Nice classical reference :thumbs:
 
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