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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

Britain is regularly ranked in the top bar of GDP, development, healthcare and god knows what else. So for people to turn around and say "but we can't compare to New Zealand, or any of these other places with lower deaths, different circumstances" is fucking bollocks.

We're supposedly a rich well developed country with a respect for the rule of law and a supposedly good healthcare system. Instead we've spent 12 months working out that may you should close airports and trying to prevent the NHS collapsing by hiding indoors away from each other and 100k people have still FUCKING DIED.

Fuck this, I am fucking livid today. I am fucking fuming

This:
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Is fairly disingenuous, We have the 2nd busiest international airport in the world and of the only busier one, Dubai, the vast majority of passengers are in transit rather than that city being the final destination. China (if you exclude Hong Kong) doesn't have a single airport in the top 20 of international airports. And Gatwick is the 13th busiest.

China has almost 2 billion people in it. We have 70 million. I don't for a second believe they've had as few deaths as they've reported but its a fucking fact we shouldn't be getting past 100'000.
 
China has almost 2 billion people in it. We have 70 million. I don't for a second believe they've had as few deaths as they've reported but its a fucking fact we shouldn't be getting past 100'000.


Oh totally, China claims to have fewer than 5000 deaths, they are just outright liars though. The UK's numbers are far too fucking high, not closing the borders in March was insane, especially as Heathrow is the biggest international arrivals airport in the world and Gatwick is not far behind. Failure after failure by Johnson and his shit-show of a government has led to this awful number and it is time they were held to account for their failures.
 
Oh totally, China claims to have fewer than 5000 deaths, they are just outright liars though. The UK's numbers are far too fucking high, not closing the borders in March was insane, especially as Heathrow is the biggest international arrivals airport in the world and Gatwick is not far behind. Failure after failure by Johnson and his shit-show of a government has led to this awful number and it is time they were held to account for their failures.

I work in an area with a heavy footfall of Chinese tourists, the number of masks present on them crept up exponentially through November to December before the tourists actually vanished in January.
 


On the radio this morning they were talking about obesity and how it was a factor, and the presenter suggested that lowering the limits for gastric band surgery might help. I mean, wtaf. If that's the solution that you can suggest as a first port of call then have a fucking word with yourself. Nothing about equality or poverty or decades of pursuing a way of ordering society that made this happen, no, GIVE THE FATTIES AND NOT SO FATTIES SURGERY. Unbelievable.
 
To make meaningful comparisons with other countries - surely you have to look at what measures they took and how early. Is there a correlation between this and their current death toll?

That seems to get less attention than all the discussion about airports and obesity.

For those interested in finding people to blame, it also would focus on the factors that each country did have control over, rather than those which couldn't be altered at the outset of the pandemic. And removes to some extent the "hindsight" thing from the argument.
 
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Is that a picture of Rees Mogg shooting Johnson?
 
To make meaningful comparisons with other countries - surely you have to look at what measures they took and how early. Is there a correlation between this and their current death toll?

That seems to get less attention than all the discussion about airports and obesity.

For those interested in finding people to blame, it also would focus on the factors that each country did have control over, rather than those which couldn't be altered at the outset of the pandemic. And removes to some extent the "hindsight" thing from the argument.
being as our government's early plan was to let everyone catch it so the survivors would have herd immunity it's no great surprise what we've got is a worldbeating load of graves
 
To make meaningful comparisons with other countries - surely you have to look at what measures they took and how early. Is there a correlation between this and their current death toll?

That seems to get less attention than all the discussion about airports and obesity.

For those interested in finding people to blame, it also would focus on the factors that each country did have control over, rather than those which couldn't be altered at the outset of the pandemic. And removes to some extent the "hindsight" thing from the argument.
This is true enough, and there has been a fair bit of levelling out in the second wave across Europe, including for places like Czechia, which had previously received praise for what it was perceived to have done right to avoid the first wave. We're not at all in control of a lot of this.

That said, near the top of many of the charts are three of the most abject r/w populist-led countries whose leaders didn't take Covid seriously until it was too late, if at all - UK, US and Brazil. Before digging into the details, that doesn't feel like a coincidence. Meanwhile, the levelling out effect of the second wave in Europe also suggests a collective failure across many countries.
 
We're not at all in control of a lot of this.

Deciding to see it that way is in itself a political decision. Countries that relaxed restrictions too much over the summer were effectively giving up on a raft of control measures in a way that made a second wave inevitable. They ceded control in a manner that is in no way proof that control was impossible, quite the opposite. Clinging to theories about population immunity levels was one way some people justified that, and it wasnt surprising that such a stance did not stand the test of time.

For example your own political persuasion has hardly made you a champion of attempting to control the virus by dranonian measures, even when such measures have been repeatedly demonstrated to work.
 
Deciding to see it that way is in itself a political decision.
I think that's a fair point. But you can't just will reality either. So clearly mistakes were made here with the easing off. Probably the biggest mistake throughout being the failure to control movement, travel exemptions for rich businesspeople, etc. And once you've failed at that one thing, lots of other measures become rather futile exercises.
 
It was a good read and, for me, nicely applied what a neo-liberal state regulatory state means in practice. That diffused regulatory function is an ongoing nightmare in most sectors, but was a concentrated disaster in terms of the last 12 months/Covid. It almost made me nostalgic for social democracy (Anarchists For War Socialism :oops: ). The other thing is, this all has a bearing on whether there will be a reckoning. At one level, even if every word of that article found its way into the inevitable Covid Inquiry the Tories will, essentially, shrug their shoulders and ignore it - they have the numbers in Parliament. That's another aspect of the old politics that has disappeared, politicians don't take responsibility for their actions, however deadly. But more than that, the very diffusion of regulation that is part of the problem allows them to deflect the blame ('no one individual... lessons learned... officials should have... co-ordination issues... communication needs to be... partner agencies... hold a review').
 
I think that's a fair point. But you can't just will reality either. So clearly mistakes were made here with the easing off. Probably the biggest mistake throughout being the failure to control movement, travel exemptions for rich businesspeople, etc. And once you've failed at that one thing, lots of other measures become rather futile exercises.

Political will does shape reality though.

i wont go through every mistake now, and happily for both of us I hope to avoid arguing with you with the same tone I have used at times in the past. So I'll just tackle a few of the issues by way of an imaginary scenario where I was in charge of the nations pandemic response.

It would have been a real struggle to get the establishment and everyone fully on board with my expectations and what needed to be done early on. My window of opportunity would have opened once Italy actually noticed that Covid-19 deaths were occurring there. It would have been pretty easy to lockdown in March one week earlier than we actually did. With a bit of effort and the right framing it would have been possible to lockdown 2 weeks earlier than we actually did, and to have brought in some other, less than full lockdown measures some days earlier still.

The summer would have been challenging for me, especially as earlier lockdown would have been expected to reduce the amount of death seen, and as a consequence of that probably also peoples sense of quite how bad this pandemic virus was. There were economic and morale reasons why I'd have had to go against some of my instincts and allow more relaxation of measures than I was happy with. It would have been a bit easier to justify if the test & trace system was in better shape at the time, although as you know I've warned that such systems can only carry the burden if leaders pay proper attention to the data that comes out of that system and are prepared to use such data to slam the brakes on quickly if required. I suspect the way I would have tackled the summer relaation measures would have involved a clearly stated bargain with people, including people who had more optimistic views and hopes pinned on levels of population immunity already acquired etc. The bargain would have been in the form of 'ok we will relax all this stuff now, but only on the basis that if warning signs emerge that infection levels are increasing again, we act strongly to nip that resurgence in the bud'. The government even used language that wasnt so very different to that really, but they were not sincere about it.

Large sections of the press in this country would have been a major issue for me. Part of the pre-pandemic poisonous landscape, part of the political dance in this country. The hurdles they imposed are not insurmountable, and this is another area where if the public messaging is done right all the way along, there is goodwill and trust that can be used to overcome the loud press message from shitheads. And it is possible to demonstrate to people that trying to avoid strong measures for the sake of avoiding the 'indirect pandemic deaths (from lonliness, recessions etc) is a false economy, that we end up with longer lockdowns when we dont act early enough, etc. So I would not surrender any of that territory to the rabid press without a fight.

As for futile exercises, I suppose there are some, but most of the time even the worst failings in some areas do not completely negate stuff that can still be done. Better border control etc would indeed have made a difference, especially if it enabled our feeble initial testing system to cope with demand. Without them, we had to slam the brakes on harder in other ways when the time came. One possible reason why Germany did relatively well the first time and not well the second time is that their test & trace system gave them a better view and degree of control over early virus case imports. So when they locked down at roughly the same time in calendar terms as other countries in Europe, they were actually locking down earlier than many others relative to the size and stage of epidemic wave reached at the time. Things didnt work out for them in the same way with wave 2.

Incentivising the self-isolation system is another obvious area that could have been a real difference-maker, especially if a different approach had been taken about who should still be going to work, and how seriously infection control in workplaces should be taken (ie not the joke that is the covid-secure fig leaf). Much is doable on this front even now, and even with the crap political landscape in this country. Political will is the main missing ingredient. Other missing ingredients include people within the establishment treating the notion of opposition in a way that goes beyond political games and parliamentary opposition thats more about posturing than actually trying to stop deadly policies. And indeed people in important pandemic advisory positions resigning on matters of principal at key moments.
 
That's a worrying development. [ Covid: Wrexham vaccine plant evacuated over suspicious package - BBC News ]

Personally, I don't like the idea of having all our vaccine doses in one basket.
Maybe - as it is going to be a loooong battle to control Cv-19 - the UK should consider building another couple of plants for processing & *bottling.
and not on a bliddy floodplain, either !
[*what do you call putting the stuff in the vials, is it still bottling ? ]

its called fill/finish

security a bit twitchy today where I've been working.
 
Where we are; 1725 daily deaths is "good news".
What a shitshow.

Yep it's shit, but Tue & Wed figures are always high, catching-up on the weekend lag on reporting, reflected in the Sun & Mon figures.

We're down to a 7-day average of around 1,227 a day from a high of 1,248 four days ago, so early signs that we may be over the worst, but there's a very long way to go yet. :(
 
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