Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[keithy]

The way some of you dismiss support bubbles is very short sighted. I was in a support bubble before they were even introduced, on advice of my doctor and mental health support.

Do we really want to push individuals over the edge at a time where the nhs is drowning? And while businesses are still allowed to make their staff go into work unnecessarily? How fucked up is that? If you live with other people you maybe don't understand the isolation of living alone.

I personally will not be long for this world if I have to face months of being completely isolated again. What's the point in that life? No thanks.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

If you live with other people you maybe don't understand the isolation of living alone.

Thank you for putting into words how I feel
I keep typing out long answers and deleting them because I get incensed that people who are in contented households are seeming to make judgements about their morally ability to 'keep to the rules'
It is really hard to be alone for some of us

 

[Miss-Shelf]

The way some of you dismiss support bubbles is very short sighted. I was in a support bubble before they were even introduced, on advice of my doctor and mental health support.

Do we really want to push individuals over the edge at a time where the nhs is drowning? And while businesses are still allowed to make their staff go into work unnecessarily? How fucked up is that? If you live with other people you maybe don't understand the isolation of living alone.

I personally will not be long for this world if I have to face months of being completely isolated again. What's the point in that life? No thanks.

I'm sorry to hear you've had some tough moments keithy

 

[Miss-Shelf]

I also notice that the people I know who bend the rules slightly or even a lot are either in living situations that have already compromised them [eg flatmates are not keeping rules, complex arrangements around children] or are key workers who've been in risky workplaces all along

I really understand that for [some] people who've been at a lot of risk of getting covid at work it doesn't make that much sense to be scrupulous in their personal life - it's quite a lot of mental manoeuvring

 

[Looby]

I also notice that the people I know who bend the rules slightly or even a lot are either in living situations that have already compromised them [eg flatmates are not keeping rules, complex arrangements around children] or are key workers who've been in risky workplaces all along

I really understand that for [some] people who've been at a lot of risk of getting covid at work it doesn't make that much sense to be scrupulous in their personal life - it's quite a lot of mental manoeuvring

I do think that’s true and people have made that argument to me but on the other hand, lots of people are taking more precautions because of other potential exposure and because of their personal risk assessments.

I have to go inside homes in my job with the exception of 4 days in September when I stayed in a rented house and for a couple of weeks when I stayed with a friend because I didn’t have a bathroomI haven’t sat and had a drink or a chat in another person’s house since March.
I’ve sat in gardens and stood on doorsteps and popped in to have a week with a mask on.

Now friends who have been doing this when it was allowed think I’m being excessively cautious but they don’t get that my risk exposure is different to theirs and I’m just trying to manage it where I can.
But I do have a partner at home which makes a huge difference.

 

[kabbes]

I don’t have any problem whatsoever with people who are seeing others in their support bubble. It never even crosses my mind to have a problem with that. I’m far too busy having problems with the vast amounts of run-of-the-mill selfish behaviour I see — amongst those who have a charmed, privileged existence anyway, which has apparently brought with it a sense of entitlement that they can carry on doing whatever the fuck they want.

 

[existentialist]

I think it would be a very unwise move to get rid of support bubbles - there is probably a whole wellspring of latent mental health stuff that is being kept manageable by people being able to access someone else. And, as someone who is living on his own, I can see how important that could be.

But I think something a bit more definite needs to be put in place - this idea that "I can be in this support bubble today, but that one tomorrow" is nowhere near the spirit of the regulations, and absolutely increases the risk of cross-infection. I think that if someone is going to nominate a support bubble, there should be some way of documenting that and either enforcing, or strongly encouraging people, to stick to that bubble...and be very clear about what that means in terms of their contacts elsewhere.

I suspect it's a bit like mask exemptions - there will be plenty of people who have genuine reasons for needing not to wear masks (or needing a support bubble), but quite a lot more who are just taking the piss.

 

[platinumsage]

It's pretty hard to enforce or deter people from meeting each other in private or outdoors - the police certainly aren't going to investigate whether someone is in a support bubble or not, so it always relies on a sufficient proportion of the population choosing to comply.

Mask wearing, larger group gatherings, business closures, long distance travel etc are all much easier to enforce.

 

[brogdale]

The Police certainly aren't going to investigate the very largest mass gatherings of people outside and sharing air space inside at the mega vaccination centres.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I also notice that the people I know who bend the rules slightly or even a lot are either in living situations that have already compromised them [eg flatmates are not keeping rules, complex arrangements around children] or are key workers who've been in risky workplaces all along

I really understand that for [some] people who've been at a lot of risk of getting covid at work it doesn't make that much sense to be scrupulous in their personal life - it's quite a lot of mental manoeuvring

Because I work in a potentially covid-risky place, that feels like all the more reason to avoid social contact the rest of the time tbh.

 

[existentialist]

It's pretty hard to enforce or deter people from meeting each other in private or outdoors - the police certainly aren't going to investigate whether someone is in a support bubble or not, so it always relies on a sufficient proportion of the population choosing to comply.

Mask wearing, larger group gatherings, business closures, long distance travel etc are all much easier to enforce.

I do wonder, though, whether something (perhaps along the lines of the French attestation) where someone fills in a form which says "X is my support bubble" might, along with some clear statements on the form, emphasise to people that this is a Thing, not just a bit of a get-out clause.

Sure, you're never going to be able to lock it down tight without some seriously oppressive State interference, which might be hard to justify, but we could do a lot more - at least, with a Government that also appeared to respect the rules - to make it abundantly clear what support bubbles are for, and how they work.

 

[brogdale]

As per...#WorldBeating...

 

[miss direct]

People like me, who are lodgers, aren't entitled to a support bubble, because of not living alone. Not sure how a landlady who I barely see counts as not living alone. I dont want to complain about things being unfair, but not sure why an entire family who has a child under one gets to make a bubble when I don't. Means an extremely lonely existence during the winter.

 

[Mation]

Three of my housemates currently have a 'support bubble' with their partners. Two go off to their partner's place, but one has moved theirs in to the house for half the week. They did this last week. I'm not happy.

 

[LDC]

The way some of you dismiss support bubbles is very short sighted. I was in a support bubble before they were even introduced, on advice of my doctor and mental health support.

Do we really want to push individuals over the edge at a time where the nhs is drowning? And while businesses are still allowed to make their staff go into work unnecessarily? How fucked up is that? If you live with other people you maybe don't understand the isolation of living alone.

I personally will not be long for this world if I have to face months of being completely isolated again. What's the point in that life? No thanks.

Not sure anyone has 'dismissed' them. I think for me things are so bad now, and are likely to get worse in the coming weeks, that we need a short much tighter period of lockdown to help bring numbers down, and as part of that I think a 'stay at home except for absolute essentials and emergencies' emphasis isn't compatible with any support bubbles as nobody should be leaving home. And nobody has said that needs to go on for months either.

I totally get that's brutal, but that's where we are now, and I just don't see any other way to try and limit even more deaths.

 

[rekil]

IT on Varadkar's flood of emails of support when he told the boffins to go fuck themselves.

‘It needed to be said’ – public praise for Varadkar's criticism of Nphet

Emails show support for Tánaiste’s stand on RTÉ’s Claire Byrne Live

www.irishtimes.com

Newly disclosed emails from the public show the vast majority of people who felt compelled to write to the Tánaiste about his remarks backed him after a television appearance that showed, for the first time, very public division between the Government and its public health advisers.

Some 55 people who wrote to Mr Varadkar supported his condemnation of Nphet for making its sudden proposal that Level 5 restrictions be imposed to suppress the spread of coronavirus.

Spoiler: wha happen

 

[Miss-Shelf]

]

But I do have a partner at home which makes a huge difference.

That's the point

 

[wtfftw]

Not sure anyone has 'dismissed' them. I think for me things are so bad now, and are likely to get worse in the coming weeks, that we need a short much tighter period of lockdown to help bring numbers down, and as part of that I think a 'stay at home except for absolute essentials and emergencies' emphasis isn't compatible with any support bubbles as nobody should be leaving home. And nobody has said that needs to go on for months either.

I totally get that's brutal, but that's where we are now, and I just don't see any other way to try and limit even more deaths.

That answer is dismissive of support bubbles. Just fyi.

 

[LDC]

"Dismissive: feeling or showing that something is unworthy of consideration."

No, I've considered them, think they're generally very important, but in the current situation other things should take priority for a short period of time.

FYI

 

[wtfftw]

 

[andysays]

That answer is dismissive of support bubbles. Just fyi.

No it isn't.

But it does recognize that, however important support bubbles are (and literally no one here has argued that they aren't important) they also come with a potential cost, just like many other exemptions from the restrictions, and that while those costs are bearable at the moment, if things get significantly worse then some of those costs/exemptions, possibly even including support bubbles, may have to be suspended for a while.

Personally I'd stop all nonessential work before I suspended support bubbles, but I'm not making the decisions.

 

[LDC]

Personally I think everything needs to stop for a few weeks, including anything but critical work, essential shops, and medical/care work.

I also admit to be very jaded and fucked off with the attitudes and behaviour of people I know and see with this stuff so am probably far too harsh generally now.

Someone (I mentioned in the personal consequences thread) considered it absolutely essential he went and got his brother from a Tier 4 area that was in lockdown. This person then proved to have been infected, so then brought the infection into the house that ended up with my friend there (NHS worker who'd just got over covid) having to isolate for ten days again, a doctor who had contact having to do likewise, as well as him and his brother basically ignoring isolation even when displaying symptoms and getting a positive test and wandering around doing what they considered as essential for them. As one example.

And yeah, complex reasons and other people/the government/etc to blame for sure. But yes, my tolerance is unfortunately burnt and very low now.

 

[redsquirrel]

We can talk endlessly about how to interpret the vague rules we've been given but as long as people have to go out to work it isn't going to make a blind bit of difference.

Yeah this. Just after Xmas there was an interview on C4 News where the interviewer was desperately trying to get the talking head (either a member of SAGE or indie SAGE) to say that public non-compliance was the problem. Thankfully that suggestion was shot down, with the talking head putting the blame for any non-compliance on (1) the mixed messaging and (2) the lack of proper support for people. That's were we need to be organising.

 

[BigMoaner]

Personally I think everything needs to stop for a few weeks, including anything but critical work, essential shops, and medical/care work.

finally at work they've ceased all none essential projects. People faffing about with "on I want a new office built". Cue dozens of contractors, building managers, etc all getting together. Just stop, for gods sake, whilst we see through the darkest months of it all.

 

[teuchter]

There's non-compliance that's due to a lack of proper support and there's non-compliance that's due to rubbish messaging and there's also non-compliance that's nothing to do with either of those things. All of them have an effect.

 

[xenon]

I've not used a support bubble lately. The last time I've been in someone else's house was Christmas day and before that, back in the summer. I would be OK myself without this for a few weeks but of course many others would struggle. However, if that were banned along with as mentioned on the news, possibility of meeting one other person outside for exercise, That would really bite and frankly, not sure I'd stick to it. A fortnight sure, indephanetly, no.

My personal factor, as I've probably said before, apols. But as I use a long cane to get around and live in an urban area, walking on my own isn't something I do for exercise or to relax. Whilst in normal times, I go out and meet people at the pub or whatever but whilst I actually like walking, the switchoffidness chance to clear your mind I don't get through walking by myself, due to the concentration needed. (I meet a friend and get a guide going for a walk.) And that's what I need, well and the vitemine D and human contact obv.

I know it's difficult for everyone in different ways but as just heard this exercise meeting thing mentioned on radio.

 

[wtfftw]

Spot the people that don't need a support bubble. The point of support bubbles is that they are essential for physical or mental health.

 

[LDC]

What's really sad and terrible is we've got to this position when we're all a bit fraught for a variety of reasons (myself included), and we're jumping around being angry and upset with each other, which while understandable, isn't really very helpful and lets plenty of more culpable people off the hook.

 

[LDC]

Spot the people that don't need a support bubble. The point of support bubbles is that they are essential for physical or mental health.

Way to go making (incorrect) assumptions about all our circumstances from a few posts!

 

[Looby]

Not sure anyone has 'dismissed' them. I think for me things are so bad now, and are likely to get worse in the coming weeks, that we need a short much tighter period of lockdown to help bring numbers down, and as part of that I think a 'stay at home except for absolute essentials and emergencies' emphasis isn't compatible with any support bubbles as nobody should be leaving home. And nobody has said that needs to go on for months either.

I totally get that's brutal, but that's where we are now, and I just don't see any other way to try and limit even more deaths.

I think there has to be some room to manage this whilst not cutting vulnerable and lonely people off from any support. So in the examples above of people living alone and desperately needing that human interaction for their mental health and well-being, it would feel cruel to stop that or turn them into rule breakers.

But then it gets sticky doesn’t it. I don’t necessarily think that a family need to bubble with another family because they have a baby but they might be really struggling with PND.
I dunno, in theory I agree that some bubbles might be an unnecessary risk but I don’t know who gets to decide who has that support and who doesn’t.