Corbyn - connecting with the traditional labour vote...

[no-no]

I've had lots of arguments this week about corbyn....people are saying he should resign as he failed to connect with traditional labour voters over the referendum. Whether he goes or not doesn't really matter to me, as long as they start to address immigration and stop sticking their heads in the sand. To ignore immigration is to hand votes to the right, right?

My view is that he's anti EU, he should have fought that corner, most of the labour heartlands voted to leave anyway. Instead we have a situation where labour left immigration off their flyers which seems absurd.

How could he have gained the old labour votes by campaigning harder for the remain camp?

 

[mk12]

If he had campaigned for Brexit he would have gone some way to restoring that link between the party and traditional Labour voters.

But he is also way out of step with these voters on the question of immigration.

 

[butchersapron]

But then much of the PLP would have turned against him...oh

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Does it even make sense to talk of a 'traditional labour vote' without the context of traditional labour movement?

Not just a bunch of atomised CDE consumers who get to vote in a Daily Mail compered popularity contest every few years.

 

[no-no]

So if he'd put in more effort with the remain campaign he may not be facing the resignations he's getting now. That would be at the cost of the loss of all those votes up north, in wales etc....We'd end up with another centre left version of labour, why is a labour party chasing votes from the centre?

On the radio they're going on about approval ratings? where can i find these? They're saying corbyns approval ratings are on the floor....is that the case?

 

[no-no]

Does it even make sense to talk of a 'traditional labour vote' without the context of traditional labour movement?

Not just a bunch of atomised CDE consumers who get to vote in a Daily Mail compered popularity contest every few years.

You mean unionisation?

 

[Dogsauce]

If he'd fought a more visible campaign (and the visibility of this wouldn't necessarily be in his control - the media have to be interested) then he might have been associated with the tories now in disarray over this clusterfuck. He could have shared a platform with them as Labour did in the Scottish independence campaign, but that didn't turn out very well for the party there, did it? Keeping out of the mess wasn't an irrational choice.

I think what is happening would have happened sooner or later anyway, plots were hatched long before this month.

 

[butchersapron]

If he'd fought a more visible campaign (and the visibility of this wouldn't necessarily be in his control - the media have to be interested) then he might have been associated with the tories now in disarray over this clusterfuck. He could have shared a platform with them as Labour did in the Scottish independence campaign, but that didn't turn out very well for the party there, did it? Keeping out of the mess wasn't an irrational choice.

I think what is happening would have happened sooner or later anyway, plots were hatched long before this month.

How would he be associated with them anymore than he is now if he actively backed leave and stole or at least split the attention from them?

 

[SaskiaJayne]

He made it clear enough that he was not that enthusiastic about remain. He actually said he was about 70/30 in favour, what's wrong with an honest politician? That struck a chord with me because I felt much the same, ie least worst option. The only thing wrong with Corbyn is that he has no support among Labour MPs. Corbyn prefers a thoughtful reflective style & the way of UK politics nowadays is noisy speech making full of cliche & put downs. He has the support of Labour party members but with no support among Labour MPs it is difficult to see how he can continue.

You cannot blame Corbyn for 'losing' the referendum though. Those around me who voted leave which is most had decided to vote leave long ago for reasons that could be destroyed mostly by simple argument but no way were they not going to vote leave. I think MPs simply underestimated the strength of feeling in provincial England/Wales, this is why even the leave MPs appeared stunned by the result. I doubt there was anything they could have done during the campaign to change the minds of those voters.

 

[Pickman's model]

He made it clear enough that he was not that enthusiastic about remain. He actually said he was about 70/30 in favour, what's wrong with an honest politician? That struck a chord with me because I felt much the same, ie least worst option. The only thing wrong with Corbyn is that he has no support among Labour MPs. Corbyn prefers a thoughtful reflective style & the way of UK politics nowadays is noisy speech making full of cliche & put downs. He has the support of Labour party members but with no support among Labour MPs it is difficult to see how he can continue.

You cannot blame Corbyn for 'losing' the referendum though. Those around me who voted leave which his most had decided to vote leave long ago for reasons that could be destroyed mostly by simple argument but no way were they not going to vote leave. I think MPs simply underestimated the strength of feeling in provincial England/Wales, this is why even the leave MPs appeared stunned by the result. I doubt there was anything they could have done during the campaign to change the minds of those voters.

With 57 who supported him or didn't vote or spoiled their ballots hard to say no support in PLP: but let's see what happens to the 172 naysayers on the appearance of chilcot

 

[Reiabuzz]

The 'only thing wrong'.... ?

My god, the mans a walking fucking disaster. And yes, a half competent labour leader could have proved the difference here and as such I hold this arrogant duplicitous cunt partly responsible for the situation we find ourselves in.

 

[Pickman's model]

The 'only thing wrong'.... ?

My god, the mans a walking fucking disaster. And yes, a half competent labour leader could have proved the difference here and as such I hold this arrogant duplicitous cunt partly responsible for the situation we find ourselves in.

When you depart blighty for parts foreign you won't have to worry about him any more. Have you booked your tickets yet?

 

[SaskiaJayne]

With 57 who supported him or didn't vote or spoiled their ballots hard to say no support in PLP: but let's see what happens to the 172 naysayers on the appearance of chilcot

Well yes, it would be nice to think those 172 would support him for the sake of party unity to fight a GE which might be soon but politics has to be about the art of the possible.

 

[Smoking kills]

If he'd fought a more visible campaign (and the visibility of this wouldn't necessarily be in his control - the media have to be interested) then he might have been associated with the tories now in disarray over this clusterfuck. He could have shared a platform with them as Labour did in the Scottish independence campaign, but that didn't turn out very well for the party there, did it? Keeping out of the mess wasn't an irrational choice.

I think what is happening would have happened sooner or later anyway, plots were hatched long before this month.

Funny how the same media outlets that didn't cover his campaign (or anything about France except fuel shortages and soccer) have now got Labour M.P.s on speed dial. Maybe I'm paranoid thinking this might not be just a Labour party coup?

 

[no-no]

The 'only thing wrong'.... ?

My god, the mans a walking fucking disaster. And yes, a half competent labour leader could have proved the difference here and as such I hold this arrogant duplicitous cunt partly responsible for the situation we find ourselves in.

delusional...labour have been losing votes to ukip for years. corbyn may not be the man for the job but whoever gets it will have to survive the media character assassination as well.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Funny how the same media outlets that didn't cover his campaign (or anything about France except fuel shortages and soccer) have now got Labour M.P.s on speed dial. Maybe I'm paranoid thinking this might not be just a Labour party coup?

It seems to be a coup by an association of interests, funded mostly by Lord Sainsbury and run by assorted neo-cons from the Blair years.

By contrast, the Boris/Gove/Farage axis seems to be funded by hedge fund moguls and wanna-be Bond villains.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Corbyn isn't interested in the 'traditional Labour vote'.

He was carried to the leadership by a different support base - the other Labour tribe. Young, possibly middle class, possibly university educated, liberal and located in the city centres. It's that base that will be mobilised to re-elect him.

 

[two sheds]

Corbyn isn't interested in the 'traditional Labour vote'.

He was carried to the leadership by a different support base - the other Labour tribe. Young, possibly middle class, possibly university educated, liberal and located in the city centres. It's that base that will be mobilised to re-elect him.

He is also connecting to people who were sad to see the back of the Post War Social Contract - which must include some of the traditional Labour vote.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

He is also connecting to people who were sad to see the back of the Post War Social Contract - which must include some of the traditional Labour vote.

Is he? I'm not too sure. From what I've seen it's that city liberal young base that's his main, perhaps only, support. I had a student come into work yesterday who I used to chat to and I brought up the topic, she was very loud in her defence of him and in attacking these plotters. I kinda felt attacked by her myself and I'm not even against Corbyn! He does have very strong support but only in that base, I've not seen any evidence outside that other than a kind of 'well, he's a nice bloke' but not loads of enthusiasm for him. Having said that there's even less support for the plotting cunts, why they think otherwise is a mystery. Either way I think labour are pretty much finished, especially amongst it's traditional support. Won't stop me chucking 3 quid at it's dying corpse for a laugh and voting for Corbyn though.

 

[krtek a houby]

Corbyn isn't interested in the 'traditional Labour vote'.

He was carried to the leadership by a different support base - the other Labour tribe. Young, possibly middle class, possibly university educated, liberal and located in the city centres. It's that base that will be mobilised to re-elect him.

This is a bad/good thing?

 

[chilango]

Corbyn was always a metropolitan liberal leftie. It's just that as everyone else in the PLP has rushed rightwards over the last 20 years or so he's left standing more or less alone on it's left flank.

He isn't going to be very good at "connecting with the traditional labour vote", but I'm not sure the Labour Party contains anyone who is anymore.

 

[two sheds]

Is he? I'm not too sure. From what I've seen it's that city liberal young base that's his main, perhaps only, support. I had a student come into work yesterday who I used to chat to and I brought up the topic, she was very loud in her defence of him and in attacking these plotters. I kinda felt attacked by her myself and I'm not even against Corbyn! He does have very strong support but only in that base, I've not seen any evidence outside that other than a kind of 'well, he's a nice bloke' but not loads of enthusiasm for him. Having said that there's even less support for the plotting cunts, why they think otherwise is a mystery. Either way I think labour are pretty much finished, especially amongst it's traditional support. Won't stop me chucking 3 quid at it's dying corpse for a laugh and voting for Corbyn though.

Well not quite - I'm not city or young base, arguable whether I'm liberal or not , I'd just like to see a return having some sort of aim in society like reducing homelessness and the rest.

I just tried to join - entered my details and it rejected them, I phoned four times, got through once and was disconnected. Will try again later.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Corbyn was always a metropolitan liberal leftie. It's just that as everyone else in the PLP has rushed rightwards over the last 20 years or so he's left standing more or less alone on it's left flank.

He isn't going to be very good at "connecting with the traditional labour vote", but I'm not sure the Labour Party contains anyone who is anymore.

"Mad Frankie" Field is pretty good at it here in Birkenhead, but he's like a smarter version of UKIP in some ways and a rather active and competent constituency MP.

 

[no-no]

Corbyn isn't interested in the 'traditional Labour vote'.

He was carried to the leadership by a different support base - the other Labour tribe. Young, possibly middle class, possibly university educated, liberal and located in the city centres. It's that base that will be mobilised to re-elect him.

Are there enough of them that'll reliably turn out in a general election though?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Corbyn was always a metropolitan liberal leftie. It's just that as everyone else in the PLP has rushed rightwards over the last 20 years or so he's left standing more or less alone on it's left flank.

He isn't going to be very good at "connecting with the traditional labour vote", but I'm not sure the Labour Party contains anyone who is anymore.

Someone with a northern accent would at least be a start.

 

[J Ed]

The 'only thing wrong'.... ?

My god, the mans a walking fucking disaster. And yes, a half competent labour leader could have proved the difference here and as such I hold this arrogant duplicitous cunt partly responsible for the situation we find ourselves in.

I like the current dual portrayal of Corbyn as both incompetent and incapable of doing anything but also a secret evil genius who orchestrated the leave vote

 

[SaskiaJayne]

This is what I cannot understand. Just watched a vid clip on Beeb website of Corbyn leaving his home this morning. Surrounded by cops & security, he just sort of said good morning & he was hustled into a car & away. Totally remote.

Why did he not just tell all the cops & security to stand aside, stand on a box or something & hold an impromptu press conference? Why does he just not go out on the streets & connect with people? This isn't the middle east, nobody is going to shoot him. What is he scared of?

 

[butchersapron]

This is what I cannot understand. Just watched a vid clip on Beeb website of Corbyn leaving his home this morning. Surrounded by cops & security, he just sort of said good morning & he was hustled into a car & away. Totally remote.

Why did he not just tell all the cops & security to stand aside, stand on a box or something & hold an impromptu press conference? Why does he just not go out on the streets & connect with people? This isn't the middle east, nobody is going to shoot him. What is he scared of?

Er...

 

[SaskiaJayne]

Oh ffs ba, enlarge on that with a proper answer. I am asking a question based on what I saw this morning as described.

 

[butchersapron]

I think some MP got murdered or something the other day.