Compulsory voting - yea or nay?

[NoXion]

So whenever the subject of compulsory voting comes up on Reddit, I usually end up getting downvoted to hell for criticising the notion. Compulsory voting has always seemed an utterly absurd idea to me, threatening people with fines for choosing not to exercise their rights seems like something straight out of Bizarro World as far as I'm concerned. It would be like if the US started fining people for not exercising their free speech.

The usual defences revolve around more participation improving democracy, but is this really the case? Sure, as far as I know Australia doesn't have problems with gerrymandering, but at the same time I haven't seen any signs that politics in Oz is significantly better than in any other bourgeois democracies, who seem to manage just fine without threatening citizens with fines for not turning up at the polls.

How do the claims from the defenders of compulsory voting stack up, and what does the rest of Urban think?

 

[A380]

So whenever the subject of compulsory voting comes up on Reddit, I usually end up getting downvoted to hell for criticising the notion. Compulsory voting has always seemed an utterly absurd idea to me, threatening people with fines for choosing not to exercise their rights seems like something straight out of Bizarro World as far as I'm concerned. It would be like if the US started fining people for not exercising their free speech.

The usual defences revolve around more participation improving democracy, but is this really the case? Sure, as far as I know Australia doesn't have problems with gerrymandering, but at the same time I haven't seen any signs that politics in Oz is significantly better than in any other bourgeois democracies, who seem to manage just fine without threatening citizens with fines for not turning up at the polls.

How do the claims from the defenders of compulsory voting stack up, and what does the rest of Urban think?

How would you enforce it?

Give people shopping vouchers for voting perhaps...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Mine is a firm 'nay'. I would like to live in a society in which it is possible, if you so wish, to largely drop out from mainstream concerns, including concerns for the political system, and voting implies that you consent to the power being wielded over/for you.

I also think all elections need to have a 'none of the above' option. And if it wins, then that's exactly what happens.

 

[NoXion]

How would you enforce it?

Give people shopping vouchers for voting perhaps...

Well, apparently the way it's done in Australia is that they have a list of eligible voters, and if you don't turn up at the polling station on voting day, your name doesn't get crossed off and you get sent a letter threatening you with a $20 fine unless you give them a "valid" reason for not turning up. I also hear Aussies mentioning something about sausages?

Like, a $20 dollar fine isn't that much unless you're desperately poor, but it's still the principle of the thing which really rankles me. "You live in a free country! And to prove it, we're going to threaten you with fines unless you do what we want!"

 

[mojo pixy]

I would only support compulsory voting if spoiled or blank ballots were counted in a 'none of the above' category (or if that category got added to every ballot). Then if 'NotA' got more than any other candidate the poll would have to be re-run.

(To add quickly, 'NotA' should be an option anyway, and there should be consequences if it wins in any ward, or in the country at large)

 

[NoXion]

I would only support compulsory voting if spoiled or blank ballots were counted in a 'none of the above' category (or if that category got added to every ballot). Then if 'NotA' got more than any other candidate the poll would have to be re-run.

(To add quickly, 'NotA' should be an option anyway, and there should be consequences if it wins in any ward, or in the country at large)

In the Australian system spoiling your ballot is apparently enough to avoid the fine, but I don't think it counts towards anything.

 

[Pickman's model]

i wonder how spunking cock does in australian elections

 

[Elpenor]

Should be a poll

 

[mojo pixy]

i wonder how spunking cock does in australian elections

Wasn't he recently their PM?

 

[Pickman's model]

Wasn't he recently their PM?

no, that was just a wanker

 

[xenon]

Poll?
And a public one too pls.

 

[NoXion]

Should be a poll

Poll?
And a public one too pls.

You're both absolutely right. Can I add one after the fact?

Participation is optional.

 

[xenon]

If I were reforming our democracy, this wouldn't be first thing on the list.

 

[andysays]

Should be a poll

A poll on compulsory voting?

I would refuse to vote, on principle

 

[xenon]

I think you can go to thread tools or something. Or maybe edit OP and then you see that option.

 

[NoXion]

Poll added.

 

[tim]

Boycott the poll.

 

[Brainaddict]

No, and in the UK a more significant change to the electoral system that would engage people a lot more would be introducing PR.

 

[danny la rouge]

If there were compulsory voting, it should be compulsory to provide meaningful choices.

 

[NoXion]

If there were compulsory voting, it should be compulsory to provide meaningful choices.

The argument I've seen is that compulsory voting encourages politicians to broaden their appeal rather than just appealing to a "base". Which seems backwards to me, shouldn't there be something worth voting for in the first place?

Not sure how well that actually works, since I've heard plenty of Australians whinge about their elected politicians. I remember Tony Abbott attracting a lot of negative comments.

 

[Yossarian]

Brazil has compulsory voting and look at the shithead they ended up with.

I'd be OK with measures to encourage people to vote though, including a paid day off.

 

[RainbowTown]

Absolutely no.

People should be free to exercise their right to vote as and when they want. They should be not be mandated to do so by law and the threat of some form of punishment if they don't.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I'm only voting if it is compulsory. At least then we'll get to understand what the impact will be on society in general if this were extended to cover elections to the Commons, the House of Lords, local councils, the judiciary, the C of E, police commissioners, army top brass and of course, the Monarchy.

 

[NoXion]

Brazil has compulsory voting and look at the shithead they ended up with.

I'd be OK with measures to encourage people to vote though, including a paid day off.

Yeah, I'm totally fine with an all-carrot and no stick approach towards encouraging voter participation. But there is definitely something distinctly "off" about a punitive approach, even if it isn't very harsh.

 

[danny la rouge]

The argument I've seen is that compulsory voting encourages politicians to broaden their appeal rather than just appealing to a "base". Which seems backwards to me, shouldn't there be something worth voting for in the first place?

Not sure how well that actually works, since I've heard plenty of Australians whinge about their elected politicians. I remember Tony Abbott attracting a lot of negative comments.

Yeah, there's no evidence that you get anything other than the range of neo-liberal to neo-con you get everywhere else.

Well, except North Korea, where choice is actually even narrower than here and Australia.

 

[MickiQ]

Compulsory voting might make more sense if we were offered more meaningful choices. In our current system not only do you get a limited choice, in most areas it doesn't even matter since the sitting candidate will usually win anyway.
Before we start down the compel/bribe people to vote the we need to look at more choices which realistically means PR

 

[skyscraper101]

The argument I've seen is that compulsory voting encourages politicians to broaden their appeal rather than just appealing to a "base". Which seems backwards to me, shouldn't there be something worth voting for in the first place?

Not sure how well that actually works, since I've heard plenty of Australians whinge about their elected politicians. I remember Tony Abbott attracting a lot of negative comments.

I think also that in countries with significant indigenous populations (Australia and Brazil both have mandatory voting), it's a way to make sure those communities are not disenfranchised by a system mostly geared to the interests of the non-indigenous. Of course the reality is always the opposite but hey.

I'm not in favour of it here though - there's no argument to be made along indigenous lines and it would almost certainly be used as a controlling mechanism for an increasingly authoritarian government and a revenue generator through fines. Fuck that.

I'd be up for being incentivized to show up though. Free M&S vouchers or something. Bring it.

 

[platinumsage]

If there were compulsory voting, it should be compulsory to provide meaningful choices.

No one provides the choices because anyone can stand for election, unless it somewhere like China where the choices are provided by the state.

 

[danny la rouge]

No one provides the choices because anyone can stand for election, unless it somewhere like China where the choices are provided by the state.

While in theory that may be true, in practice it is very much not. as I'm sure you know.

For example, in 1981, Mitterrand was under the impression he'd be able to take 12 industrial conglomerates and 38 banks into public ownership, and raise the minimum wage by 10 per cent. It turned out he was in fact not free to do so. Capital prevented it.

No, what we're allowed are "electable" parties like Tony Blair's New Labour. That's the reality.

 

[DotCommunist]

No, the vote includes the right to not use it. I might agree to it if NOTA was a valid choice and NOTA winning meant voided election and come back when you've something people can vote for. Australia has compulsory voting and its made no improvements there