Cold War Aviation Porn
- Thread starter JuanTwoThree
- Start date
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
How do you think the Russian Air Force fed it's conscripts...?
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
I can't remember if it was on this thread or elsewhere, but there's a great story out there on the web about the planned use of Canberra reconnaissance runs out of Chile during the Falklands War. The Chileans were all signed up because they wanted a good deal on buying some, but because it was all hush-hush there was quite a faff flying them into Belize and then violating the airspace of most of Central America before landing on a closed motorway in northern Chile to refuel.More Canberra fun:
It was all cancelled at the last minute and the overflights never took place, but the Chileans did go on to buy a few. It was a great story.
Canberra PR9s over the Falklands - fact or folklore?
The question has gone unanswered for years: did RAF Canberra PR9s fly from Chilean bases during the Falklands War? Operation ‘Folklore’ was the codename given to a planned deployment — but, despite its eventual cancellation, rumours still abound. For his new book Harrier 809, author Rowland...
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
Absolutely nothing. The recoil energy of that rifle is insignificant compared to the mass of the shooter and that deathtrap he's stood on.
Idris2002
Christmas Eve, you know?
So much for "no platform", then.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I know which one I like better.
Thesaint
Active Member
Those lightnings were crazy fast things looking back. I assume they had to slow down massively on reaching their target given the bomber was so slow in comparison to get a good shot away? Anyone know?
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
The theory was smaller frontal area, and thus less drag to get the best possible performance out of an overweight aircraft with underperforming engines. All its closest competitors are quite a lot smaller and lighter and use just the one engine for similar performance. (Fishbed, Starfighter, Mirage) But the Lightning did have the fastest time to altitude of any of them, so perhaps there's something to it.
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
For comparison larfs:
MiG-21 Fishbed:
Max takeoff weight 10,400 kg (22,928 lb), 40.18 kN (9,030 lbf) thrust dry, 69.58 kN (15,640 lbf) with afterburner
Maximum speed: Mach 2.05
Combat range: 604 km (375 mi; 326 nmi)
Ferry range: 660 km (410 mi, 360 nmi)
Dassault Mirage III:
Max takeoff weight 13,700 kg (30,203 lb), 41.97 kN (9,440 lbf) thrust dry, 60.8 kN (13,700 lbf) with afterburner
Maximum speed: Mach 2.2
Combat range: 1,200 km (750 mi, 650 nmi)
Ferry range: 3,335 km (2,072 mi, 1,801 nmi)
Lockheed F-104 Starfighter:
Max takeoff weight 13,166 kg (29,027 lb), 10,000 lbf (44 kN) thrust dry, 15,600 lbf (69 kN) with afterburner
Maximum speed: Mach 2.2
Combat range: 420 mi (680 km, 360 nmi)
Ferry range: 1,630 mi (2,620 km, 1,420 nmi)
EE Lightning:
Max takeoff weight 20,752 kg (45,750 lb), 12,690 lbf (56.4 kN) thrust each dry, 16,360 lbf (72.8 kN) with afterburner (x2)
Maximum speed: Mach 2.27
Combat range: 135 nmi (155 mi, 250 km)
Ferry range: 800 nmi (920 mi, 1,500 km)
So a smidge faster than a Fishbed, for something twice the size. I think the combat range is unfair - I believe it's assumed to run full afterburn the whole way - so that's why I included the ferry range.
So big, short legs, brutal acceleration but top speed not any different to anything else and not carrying anything like the loadout or radar of a Phantom. Though the Phantom introduces a whole new "Lawd he's a comin'" category to "fat" in fighters.
Like a lot of things developed back then, its main purpose - intercepting Soviet bombers - became obsolete fairly early on in its career. But unlike the Mirage or the Fishbed, the Lightning wasn't a very good platform to build alternative capabilities onto. It was more like the Starfighter in that regard - sure there was a ground attack variant sold to foreigners, but it sucked and crashed as often as not. Meanwhile the French sold well over 1,000 Mirages and the Israelis still have some heavily modified ones in use.
MiG-21 Fishbed:
Max takeoff weight 10,400 kg (22,928 lb), 40.18 kN (9,030 lbf) thrust dry, 69.58 kN (15,640 lbf) with afterburner
Maximum speed: Mach 2.05
Combat range: 604 km (375 mi; 326 nmi)
Ferry range: 660 km (410 mi, 360 nmi)
Dassault Mirage III:
Max takeoff weight 13,700 kg (30,203 lb), 41.97 kN (9,440 lbf) thrust dry, 60.8 kN (13,700 lbf) with afterburner
Maximum speed: Mach 2.2
Combat range: 1,200 km (750 mi, 650 nmi)
Ferry range: 3,335 km (2,072 mi, 1,801 nmi)
Lockheed F-104 Starfighter:
Max takeoff weight 13,166 kg (29,027 lb), 10,000 lbf (44 kN) thrust dry, 15,600 lbf (69 kN) with afterburner
Maximum speed: Mach 2.2
Combat range: 420 mi (680 km, 360 nmi)
Ferry range: 1,630 mi (2,620 km, 1,420 nmi)
EE Lightning:
Max takeoff weight 20,752 kg (45,750 lb), 12,690 lbf (56.4 kN) thrust each dry, 16,360 lbf (72.8 kN) with afterburner (x2)
Maximum speed: Mach 2.27
Combat range: 135 nmi (155 mi, 250 km)
Ferry range: 800 nmi (920 mi, 1,500 km)
So a smidge faster than a Fishbed, for something twice the size. I think the combat range is unfair - I believe it's assumed to run full afterburn the whole way - so that's why I included the ferry range.
So big, short legs, brutal acceleration but top speed not any different to anything else and not carrying anything like the loadout or radar of a Phantom. Though the Phantom introduces a whole new "Lawd he's a comin'" category to "fat" in fighters.
Like a lot of things developed back then, its main purpose - intercepting Soviet bombers - became obsolete fairly early on in its career. But unlike the Mirage or the Fishbed, the Lightning wasn't a very good platform to build alternative capabilities onto. It was more like the Starfighter in that regard - sure there was a ground attack variant sold to foreigners, but it sucked and crashed as often as not. Meanwhile the French sold well over 1,000 Mirages and the Israelis still have some heavily modified ones in use.
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DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
There was the SNCASE Sud-Est SE.2415 Grognard which wasn't exactly a shining success.
The two outstanding advantages the Lightning had over its competitors was that it was British and it existed so the RAF didn't really have much choice at the time. Mirage III would have been much better and more flexible acquisition (despite the 190knot landing speed, put your underpants in the bin after a crosswind landing).
gosub
~#
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
I think it’s a modern’ picture. Probably an air show somewhere.
gosub
~#
Would be about 6-9 years ago then last flying vixen got totalled from a belly landing then and b4 that was in red bull colours rather than FAA
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
I really want to like that more than once.
Am expecting to hear them in a few days on exercise around here.
We've just had several sessions inc nights of low flying by rotary wing. [definitely chinooks and I think apache and cougar]
Idris2002
Christmas Eve, you know?
In September 1969, Popular Mechanics Explored the Complicated Mechanics Behind the Ejection Seat
In the Vietnam War, U.S. pilots were being shot down with surprisingly frequency. New ejection seat designs hoped to keep causalities to a minimum.
So you've just been hit by a North Vietnamese SAM. Wouldn't it be neat if you could pilot your ejector seat to more friendly territory?
To my layman's eye, this registers a great big "that's stupid" on the old bollocks-o-meter.
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DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
F2H lands on the USS Wasp in error instead of the USS Coral Sea. Wasp's crew react with glee and paintbrushes.
