Climate change policies

[stavros]

I'm sensing a shift in media coverage of the issue, rowing back a little from telling individuals to voluntarily change their behaviours, and instead saying systemic change is required. They don't usually advocate anything particular, beyond an objective, e.g. fly less, eat less meat, etc.

So what policies should be introduced, at any level of government?

 

[yield]

Degrowth

I broadly agree with George Monbiot is this article. A stopped clock & all that

‘Green growth’ doesn’t exist – less of everything is the only way to avert catastrophe | George Monbiot

It is simply not possible to carry on at the current level of economic activity without destroying the environment, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot

www.theguardian.com

Wed 29 Sep 2021

We have no hope of emerging from this full-spectrum crisis unless we dramatically reduce economic activity. Wealth must be distributed – a constrained world cannot afford the rich – but it must also be reduced. Sustaining our life-support systems means doing less of almost everything. But this notion – that should be central to a new, environmental ethics – is secular blasphemy.

 

[Flavour]

All public transport to be totally free and road tax to be increased exponentially in line with emissions of vehicles. Ban private flights. Build more wind turbines.

 

[stavros]

road tax to be increased exponentially

To be pedantic if you increased road tax exponentially it'd still be zero.

To be less of a smart-arse the free public transport one is something worthy of discussion. Those of pensionable age are eligible for off-peak free local bus travel*; how much would it cost to make this benefit universal? If that's too ambitious for government to stomach how much would it cost to extend it to those under 17?

*I've got a feeling pensioners in London might get free Tube travel off-peak too, although I'm happy to have this rubbished.

 

[weltweit]

All sorts of emissions reductions and massed tree planting.
Nothing less than the reforestation of the UK.

 

[ska invita]

Degrowth

I broadly agree with George Monbiot is this article. A stopped clock & all that

‘Green growth’ doesn’t exist – less of everything is the only way to avert catastrophe | George Monbiot

It is simply not possible to carry on at the current level of economic activity without destroying the environment, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot

www.theguardian.com

Wed 29 Sep 2021

Agree degrowth - i spotted theres been a few books written about it recently - im convinced of the need just wonder how much can it be theorised and planned, particularly from an economic point of view that doesnt lead to greater poverty....can managed degrowth happen within a capitalist system etc? curious to read something on it

 

[magneze]

Agree degrowth - i spotted theres been a few books written about it recently - im convinced of the need just wonder how much can it be theorised and planned, particularly from an economic point of view that doesnt lead to greater poverty....can managed degrowth happen within a capitalist system etc? curious to read something on it

Kate Raworth's Doughnut Economics is worth a look.

Doughnut (economic model) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ska invita]

Kate Raworth's Doughnut Economics is worth a look.

Doughnut (economic model) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

hah yeah i did fast-read that when it came out (in one ear and out the other tends to be me) but somehow didnt file it mentally as a degrowth book, though i guess it is, in part at least, for poorer countries do still need to grow to meet satisfactory life needs ... quick look about and the author Kate has a post here about why she deliberately doesn't use the term - mainly for semantic reasons it seems

Why Degrowth has out-grown its own name. Guest post by Kate Raworth | From Poverty to Power

I had in mind more recent books like these that explicitly use the terms in their titles

The Case for Degrowth a book by Giorgos Kallis, Susan Paulson, Giacomo D'Alisa, et al.

The relentless pursuit of economic growth is the defining characteristic of contemporary societies. Yet it benefits few and demands monstrous social and ecological sacrifice. Is there a viable alternative? How can we halt the endless quest to grow global production and consumption and instead...

uk.bookshop.org

Exploring Degrowth: A Critical Guide a book by Vincent Liegey and Anitra Nelson.

A sense of urgency pervades global environmentalism, and the degrowth movement is bursting into the mainstream. As climate catastrophe looms closer, people are eager to learn what degrowth is about, and whether we can save the planet by changing how we live. This book is an introduction to the...

uk.bookshop.org

Less is More: How Degrowth Will Save the World a book by Jason Hickel.

'A powerfully disruptive book for disrupted times ... If you're looking for transformative ideas, this book is for you.' KATE RAWORTH, economist and author of Doughnut Economics A Financial Times Book of the Year ______________________________________ Our planet is in...

uk.bookshop.org

this seems a good short overview of the concept

Degrowth: the case for a new economic paradigm

Unbridled growth appears to be at odds with social well-being and environmental sustainability. How might we develop a model that reduces the imperative for growth while maintaining economic stability?

www.opendemocracy.net

too much to read in life

 

[magneze]

That's an interesting post by Raworth on degrowth. She's right about it I feel. But ultimately whatever you call it an increasing number of people are waking up to the fundamental issue with infinite growth. How we disentagle ourselves from it though.

 

[stavros]

Is labelling food with its CO2e footprint at all feasible? I presume there'd be a degree of estimation, but the footprints of core foods are fairly well known and published. For numerical nerds such as me this kind of quantification works.

 

[ska invita]

Is labelling food with its CO2e footprint at all feasible? I presume there'd be a degree of estimation, but the footprints of core foods are fairly well known and published. For numerical nerds such as me this kind of quantification works.

looking at the country of origin gives a lot of info no?

 

[Pickman's model]

looking at the country of origin gives a lot of info no?

You'd have thought so

 

[stavros]

looking at the country of origin gives a lot of info no?

It gives some, regarding transport, although according to this, from Mike Berners-Lee, UK broccoli has a marginally higher footprint per kg than New Zealand apples.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

It gives some, regarding transport, although according to this, from Mike Berners-Lee, UK broccoli has a marginally higher footprint per kg than New Zealand apples.

Still better than broccoli from New Zealand, presumably.

 

[stavros]

Still better than broccoli from New Zealand, presumably.

I would presume that too, although I'll be happy to be proven wrong by anyone who knows more about this sort of thing. It's clear the footprint of any foodstuff is a product of many factors.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Along with banning non-essential flying and cruise ships, there should be huge increases in taxation to drive down private car use, likewise to reduce meat consumption.

 

[stavros]

Along with banning non-essential flying

"Essential" is a difficult term to define. In the early days of Covid the government found that, and a similar mindset applies to a lot of behaviours .

 

[Leafster]

If we're talking about the UK, the planning rules need to be beefed up to make sure all new build properties (both residential and commercial) are far more thermally efficient. All renovations and extensions should also meet the same regulations.

Also sort out the VAT anomalies where new build properties are zero-rated but renovations and repairs can be either 5% (in some cases) or 20%. It encourages demolition of buildings which could be converted with less energy and new resources.

 

[ska invita]

It's clear the footprint of any foodstuff is a product of many factors.

What are they?

For fruit and veg i would guess transport is the key one.
For animals that also includes feed and grazing land on top of transport. There's animal farts too

Is that too simplistic?

(In that apple v broccoli example above the carbon footprint is per kg ... Could it be something to do with the ratio of brocollis to apples in weight?)

 

[maomao]

Personally I would introduce a genuinely livable UBI and encourage people to stop working and travelling. Bonuses for giving up private cars etc. Reopen libraries and turn vacant shops into educational and cultural centres so people have something to do with all their extra spare time. Create new allotments wherever possible and encourage people to contribute to local food supplies. Some sort of national service so that the shitty jobs still get done. All houses would be insulated and have a dual plumbing system installed so that we could use human waste as cheap and carbon neutral fertiliser.

In reality there won't be any meaningful climate change policies until the very last minute and then they will be authoritarian and unfair.

 

[Brainaddict]

It's all very difficult. For instance even if we had a more equal world, how would you deal with the issue of consumption luxuries? Either you tax them to hell and make them only for the rich, or you ban them altogether, or you ration them. None of the options are very palatable. It's hard to imagine what shifts would make them palatable.

 

[yield]

It's all very difficult. For instance even if we had a more equal world, how would you deal with the issue of consumption luxuries?

The everyday foods that could become luxuries

Everyday foods such as coffee, meat and spices could become luxury items due to global climate impacts and changing tastes.

www.bbc.com

Today, chocolate and coffee are, once again, at risk of becoming expensive and inaccessible.

"Chocolate and coffee could both become scarce, luxury foods again because of climate change," says Monika Zurek, a senior researcher at the Environmental Change Institute at the University of Oxford.

Vast swathes of land in Ghana and Ivory Coast could become unsuitable for cocoa production if global temperature rises reach 2C, according to a 2013 study. "Cocoa used to be for kings and nobody else. Climate change is hitting production areas hard...it could become more luxurious again," says Zurek.

Climate change could wipe out half of the land used to grow coffee worldwide by 2050, according to a 2015 study. Another study suggests that areas suitable for growing coffee in Latin America could decrease by 88% by 2050 due to rising temperatures.

Ruined Brazil Harvest Sparks Food Inflation... Everywhere

"We've never seen that before."

www.bloomberg.com

No country on Earth puts more breakfasts on kitchen tables than Brazil.

The farms that dot the vast plains and highlands that rise above the Atlantic coast produce four-fifths of the world’s orange juice exports, half of its sugar exports, a third of coffee exports and a third of the soy and corn used to feed egg-laying hens and other livestock.

So when the region’s crops were scorched and then frozen this year by a devastating one-two punch fueled by climate change — the worst drought in a century followed by an unprecedented Antarctic front that repeatedly coated the land in thick frost — global commodity markets shook.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

"Essential" is a difficult term to define. In the early days of Covid the government found that, and a similar mindset applies to a lot of behaviours .

I'd be happy to be the national arbiter of whether a flight is essential - the default answer would be no of course. Reckon it'd be good fun to piss off so many people.

 

[stavros]

What are they?

For fruit and veg i would guess transport is the key one.
For animals that also includes feed and grazing land on top of transport. There's animal farts too

Is that too simplistic?

(In that apple v broccoli example above the carbon footprint is per kg ... Could it be something to do with the ratio of brocollis to apples in weight?)

I don't know, to be honest. I think there's a carbon cost to fertilisers, and the size of it may differ between different crops.

There seems to be unanimity among those without a vested interest that meat has a heavy footprint, and that red meat in particular is guilty. The fact that it has some negative health consequences, especially when processed, could be a route taken in reducing consumption, e.g. "burger off".

 

[stavros]

Is labelling food with its CO2e footprint at all feasible? I presume there'd be a degree of estimation, but the footprints of core foods are fairly well known and published. For numerical nerds such as me this kind of quantification works.

On a similar thread to my suggestion Sweden are eco-labelling their fuel at petrol stations. I don't expect the UK to follow any time soon, but other countries, with more progressive governments might.

 

[stavros]

This looks neat too, running hybrid trucks like Scalextric cars in Germany. Our government is keen to extol the virtues of technology in solving the climate crisis; this could be something along those lines to keep an eye on.

 

[Artaxerxes]

UK trade deals should prioritise economic growth over environmental protections - leaked govt document

The document says it can be very difficult to trade with some countries that do not necessarily support saving the environment but the government says ministers are not considering the advice.

news.sky.com

Meanwhile in Britain

 

[stavros]

Is labelling food with its CO2e footprint at all feasible? I presume there'd be a degree of estimation, but the footprints of core foods are fairly well known and published. For numerical nerds such as me this kind of quantification works.

Not solely CO2e, there seems to be some push towards this, with support from Nestlé and some of the big supermarkets. It'll be interesting to see if this gains momentum.

 

[stavros]

Bikes still have VAT charged on them. Getting rid of that would be a small measure, but if publicised would look like a positive step.

 

[Humberto]

They are destroying the planet, which is par for the course.