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Clegg to face leadership challenge following fees vote?

ymu said:
You've suddenly started taking everything a politician says at face value ... except the bit that says he questions the leadership and the wisdom of the coalition ... because obviously that's the sort of platitude they often chuck out and can't be taken seriously compared to weasel words of support for the leader?

Blimey. Has moon hijacked your log-in?
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Nice attempt. There is no such part. I think you're revealing yourself as incredibly naive on this thread
 
I am undoubtedly naive. I'm just wondering why you're ignoring a statement that no MP would dare make unless they meant it, in favour of emphasising the apparently contradictory platitudes which follow. It makes no sense. Here's the whole passage I quoted again.

A Liberal Democrat MP has warned Nick Clegg that he needs to convince his party that he remains the right person to be leader.

In an open attack on Mr Clegg, Greg Mulholland, a former schools spokesman for the party, who voted against raising tuition fees on Thursday, questioned the wisdom of the party being in the Coalition. And he warned Mr Clegg that the party was "hurting".

"It is very important that Nick gets out to the wider party and reassures people that the Coalition is not only doing a good job for the country but also that it is the right thing for the Liberal Democrats as a party," he told the BBC's The World This Weekend programme.

"He has done a very good job as Deputy Prime Minister but he also needs to show that he remains the right person to get out and communicate with our members."

It emerged that Labour is to step up its efforts to woo the 26 Liberal Democrat MPs who refused to support Mr Clegg on tuition fees.
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Yes, all the direct quotes point one way - the journos interpretation points the exact opposite direction.

These are the rebels are they, these are the people who'll bring Clegg down? people who say the above? No amount of between-line-reading can disguise what this is - we're great, we need to let people know that and maybe Clegg could take some lessons from people used to saying how great we are, people like me. Big wave to my constituents as well
 
ymu said:
I am undoubtedly naive. I'm just wondering why you're ignoring a statement that no MP would dare make unless they meant it, in favour of emphasising the apparently contradictory platitudes which follow. It makes no sense. Here's the whole passage I quoted again.
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What statement?
 
Yes, you haven't quoted him questioning the coalition at all. He's questioning the promotion of the coalition.
 
butchersapron said:
Yes, all the direct quotes point one way - the journos interpretation points the exact opposite direction.

These are the rebels are they, these are the people who'll bring Clegg down? people who say the above? No amount of between-line-reading can disguise what this is - we're great, we need to let people know that and maybe Clegg could take some lessons from people used to saying how great we are, people like me. Big wave to my constituents as well
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Ah, OK. I see your point. The article gives the source - it was an interview on The World This Weekend. You can listen to it here. Lib Dem dissection starts at 5.30.
 
butchersapron said:
Mulholland is far far from safe as well - he's in the direct line of fire.
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he's safe from clegg directly though, and the more he distances himself from him the safer he is with his local supporters and the rest of the constituency.

He'll also be rightly worried about the next election as his 10k lead could easily evaporate in this area with it's huge student (and university employee) vote, and his campaign relies on volunteers to distribute everything. I'm sure this is why he put forward that early day motion on the fees, so he can point to that in his campaign material and distance himself from the coalition on fees.
 
ymu said:
Ah, OK. I see your point. The article gives the source - it was an interview on The World This Weekend. You can listen to it here. Lib Dem dissection starts at 5.30.
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I had a skip through earlier and couldn't find greg's quote. Do you know what time his comments are in the programme?
 
Greg comes in at 15.20ish. I just listened again. BA is right - there's more interpretation on the part of the journo than I remembered. although I stand by the interpretation because that's exactly what I took from it too.

The whole ten minute Lib Dem segment is largely focused on this issue though - worth a listen. 5.30 on.
 
butchersapron said:
The more he thinks he is. Looking at the 20 year returns - he's actually fucked.
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it's true that it's swung around a lot, I think mainly due to the student factor, but not entirely.

it was tory for ages, with the lib dems getting stronger through the 90's and in second place coming in to the 97 election when labour leap frogged them on the back of tony blair's appeal to students (mainly), and a not very well co-ordinated local campaign, then harold best was a good constituency MP, and the lib dem challenger was a nonentity. Greg's built a solid support base though over the last few years, and is widely seen as being a good constituency MP.

If there were an election today with a different lib dem candidate they'd get trounced. With greg though he'd probably be ok, particularly now he's seen to be opposing the coalition on fees. As I said earlier, the more he either distances himself from the coalition or is seen to be reigning in it's worst excesses (or trying to) the better his vote will hold up. His first battle though is to keep the activists on board as he only has funds to pay print costs, not distribution, so without the volunteers his newsletters wouldn't go out, nor would his poster boards, and he'd not be able to get the message out to the students and would get screwed.
 
ymu said:
What happens in parliamentary elections is of no immediate relevance - it's what councillors perceive to be in their best interests that matters in the first instance. They would have a shot at maintaining some power locally, particularly if they had been seen to be part of bringing down a Tory coalition govt in an area where the Tories were the only other electable option.

On the national ticket, stage 2, there are some Lib Dems who might get a shot at keeping their seats, solely because there is no other opposition to the Tories. There are more LD/Tory marginals than there are LD/Labour ones - but I don't know how many of them have Labour so far behind that the Lib Dem would be in with a shot at hanging on, or how many of these could only hope to do so if they were seen to be behind a move to bring the coalition down.
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Have you ever asked yourself why you are not leading any political party's policys?
 
Why don't you just fuck off to Utrecht you boring old cunt. Nothing you say has any value. Nothing you say adds to any debate. Nothing you say adds any experience or insight to the discussion. Nothing you say does anything but turn people against you.

I move this clown is re-banned.
 
If everyone puts this cunt on ignore it's almost as good as a banning, though I would like to add my support to the motion he be banned. (L&L I mean!)

ymu - what is going on in the Libdems is pantomime, it's an act to show that the MPs have a tiny bit of backbone and principle, and arent afraid to stand up to their leader and it holds out the chance of change and salvation to activists and councillors who can see that their house of cards in wobbling violently.

There was that joke going round a month or two after the election where the Tory and Libdem ministers were arranging a date for a row over policy - the truth behind that joke is it's a Libdem minister and a Libdem MP.
 
Where on earth have I suggested it is anything but pantomime?

And that isn't a joke - it was reported verbatim by the Guardian from an unnamed Tory minister. It is the cynical truth.
 
ymu said:
Where on earth have I suggested it is anything but pantomime?

And that isn't a joke - it was reported verbatim by the Guardian from an unnamed Tory minister. It is the cynical truth.
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Throughout the whole thread, esp where you suggested this was really happening, and that gm was 'on the warpath'.
 
butchersapron said:
Throughout the whole thread, esp where you suggested this was really happening, and that gm was 'on the warpath'.
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Ah, OK. I thought it was yet another attempt to characterise my arguments as being rooted in the idea that the Lib Dems have some principles to work from. :D

I think it's a genuine shot across the bows from Mulholland though. But I am naive and hopelessly optimistic ...

I still maintain that there are plenty of elected Lib Dems who cannot win whilst the Lib Dems are in the coalition, but who could win if the Lib Dems walked out of the coalition, especially if they were seen to support that move. The anti-Tory vote will be out in force in elections to come, and Labour are so far behind in some constituencies that there is nowhere else for it to go. There will be opportunists looking to keep those votes.
 
Lock&Light said:
And there was me thinking you were just a bit thick. :p
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:rolleyes: :facepalm: Seriously fuck off numbnuts.
Ah, OK. I thought it was yet another attempt to characterise my arguments as being rooted in the idea that the Lib Dems have some principles to work from.

I think it's a genuine shot across the bows from Mulholland though. But I am naive and hopelessly optimistic ...

I still maintain that there are plenty of elected Lib Dems who cannot win whilst the Lib Dems are in the coalition, but who could win if the Lib Dems walked out of the coalition, especially if they were seen to support that move. The anti-Tory vote will be out in force in elections to come, and Labour are so far behind in some constituencies that there is nowhere else for it to go. There will be opportunists looking to keep those votes.
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I think you're wrong about Mulholland, but the bit in bold in certainly correct on this issue.

:p
 
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