Chris Kaba, 24, shot dead by police in Streatham, Mon 5th Sept 2022

[Pickman's model]

Nope.

If he was presenting a deadly threat to someone that getting shot may have been the safest way to eliminate that deadly threat.

But that's speculation. Perhaps the police officer fired by mistake. Perhaps he just thought he'd have a pop because he hates black Audi drivers. We don't the circumstances yet. As to Jean Charles De Menezes he was held to be a suicide bomber so my claim doesn't fall apart at all.

And John shorthouse? How do you justify his death?

 

[platinumsage]

And John shorthouse? How do you justify his death?

I'm not justifying anyone's death, just stating that because there might be circumstances where someone being shot by the police is a better outcome than that person killing one or more people, that doesn't mean that everyone who is shot by police "deserved" to die. Not rocket science I'd have thought.

 

[teqniq]

Nope.

Nope to what?

If he was presenting a deadly threat to someone that getting shot may have been the safest way to eliminate that deadly threat.

But that's speculation. Perhaps the police officer fired by mistake. Perhaps he just thought he'd have a pop because he hates black Audi drivers. We don't the circumstances yet. As to Jean Charles De Menezes he was held to be a suicide bomber so my claim doesn't fall apart at all.

The entirety of you previous post regarding police procedure:

The way it is supposed to work with policing shooting people is that they check after each shot whether the deadly threat has been eliminated, and if it has then they stop firing.

So shooting someone 7 times (6 in the head and 1 in his arm) does not look to me like checking after each shot to ensure the threat had been neutralised suspected suicide bomber or not.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not justifying anyone's death, just stating that because there might be circumstances where someone being shot by the police is a better outcome than that person killing one or more people, that doesn't mean that everyone who is shot by police "deserved" to die. Not rocket science I'd have thought.

Jcdm wasn't going to kill anyone. John shorthouse wasn't going to kill anyone. Diarmuid o Neill was complying with police orders when he was killed. Harry Stanley was never given a chance, nor was mark duggan. The only really justified killings I can recall are the jihadis who were shot some years back in the middle of their attacks. And they were really attacking people. Chris Kaba? Pursued by the police on specious grounds and shot down like a dog with no attempt made to resolve the situation peacefully.

 

[David Clapson]

Looks like you’re trying to justify your prejudices to me.

Why say something as obnoxious and horrible as that when I posted this?

I know that young black men are right to be scared of the police. If they are stopped they might well be fitted up and/or beaten up and/or die in custody.

 

[David Clapson]

no one deserves to shot. This is not fucking america!

I'm finding the speculation on this thread really unpalatable. We weren't there and we don't know.

It's an expression, meaning taking a very high risk. Obviously they don't deserve to be shot. Don't direct your anger at me please.

 

[David Clapson]

David Clapson none of the people I saw gathered or walking in to join them seemed to me to be anything like the gang runners I see in NPR.

Why is this directed at me please?

 

[David Clapson]

editor, I think this thread might not be indexed, or something. It doesn't come up when I click on watched threads or threads with my posts in. And it's not visible in the Brixton forum. Not for me anyway.

 

[8ball]

If he'd been sprayed with bullets no doubt people would be saying it was a targeted killing because otherwise they would only have shot him as much as necessary.

The way it is supposed to work with policing shooting people is that they check after each shot whether the deadly threat has been eliminated, and if it has then they stop firing.

Really? That sounds like no use at all in a terrorist incident. Even in the case on the bridge they shot twice in quick succession iirc, and that was practically point blank range.

 

[8ball]

If you're going to object to being quoted or mentioned I don't think urban's quite the place for you

Editor seems to be on more "mutual ignore pacts" than possibly anyone else on the site, so not sure that's true on balance.

 

[editor]

editor, I think this thread might not be indexed, or something. It doesn't come up when I click on watched threads or threads with my posts in. And it's not visible in the Brixton forum. Not for me anyway.

Do you have the opening poster on ignore?

It's definitely coming up:

 

[platinumsage]

Really? That sounds like no use at all in a terrorist incident. Even in the case on the bridge they shot twice in quick succession iirc, and that was practically point blank range.

That why I wasn't referring to the exceptional circumstances (regarding police firearm use) of an evident attack by suicidal terrorists, which no one is claiming this was.

 

[8ball]

That why I wasn't referring to the exceptional circumstances (regarding police firearm use) of an evident attack by suicidal terrorists, which no one is claiming this was.

I am really undercaffeinated at the moment. In the USA they fire until certain the threat is no longer apparent (as seen on so many videos). I wasn't aware of any rule about checking after each bullet (which sounds like a weird and dangerous rule), but even so, a single bullet does not imply a targeted assassination.

 

[Pickman's model]

I am really undercaffeinated at the moment. In the USA they fire until certain the threat is no longer apparent (as seen on so many videos). I wasn't aware of any rule about checking after each bullet (which sounds like a weird and dangerous rule), but even so, a single bullet does not imply a targeted assassination.

Does not necessarily imply... for me it's the chase initiated when ck wasn't doing anything wrong driving plus the presence of firearms officers plus the apparent refusal to arrest him plus the single shot which suggests to me it was a) targeted and b) a murder

 

[platinumsage]

Does not necessarily imply... for me it's the chase initiated when ck wasn't doing anything wrong driving plus the presence of firearms officers plus the apparent refusal to arrest him plus the single shot which suggests to me it was a) targeted and b) a murder

Do you have some kind of access to a special report on what happened in order to conclude that he "wasn't doing anything wrong"? Do you know, for example, that he did not fail to to stop the vehicle when directed to do so by the police?

 

[edcraw]

Do you have some kind of access to a special report on what happened in order to conclude that he "wasn't doing anything wrong"? Do you know, for example, that he did not fail to to stop the vehicle when directed to do so by the police?

I know you’re a contrarian for the sake of it on here but I’d give it a rest if I were you - you’re obviously fairly clueless about the Met.

 

[baldrick]

Do you have some kind of access to a special report on what happened in order to conclude that he "wasn't doing anything wrong"? Do you know, for example, that he did not fail to to stop the vehicle when directed to do so by the police?

I'm sure this isn't your implication but it's not ok that failure to stop your car results in being shot by the police.

 

[platinumsage]

I know you’re a contrarian for the sake of it on here but I’d give it a rest if I were you - you’re obviously fairly clueless about the Met.

I'm not clueless at all, I'm just not jumping to any conclusion, seems a reasonable position to take. Maybe he was murdered, but maybe not.

 

[8ball]

This is the crux of the problem- that they’ve been incompetent or malicious, and utterly mendacious after the fact so many times that everyone assumes they’re up to something dodgy.

 

[edcraw]

I'm not clueless at all, I'm just not jumping to any conclusion, seems a reasonable position to take. Maybe he was murdered, but maybe not.

You tried to use this killing as joke on another thread and now you’re speculating about how the police could’ve been justified - your attitude stinks.

 

[platinumsage]

I'm sure this isn't your implication but it's not ok that failure to stop your car results in being shot by the police.

Sure but Pickmans is citing Kaba not doing "anything wrong" as a reason why this is a targeted execution. Given that he seems to have done something wrong, enough wrong to result in a chase which the police would try to end, then that reasoning fails.

 

[platinumsage]

This is the crux of the problem- that they’ve been incompetent or malicious, and utterly mendacious after the fact so many times that everyone assumes they’re up to something dodgy.

Yet when people assume Kaba was up to something dodgy due to his record, that's apparently an outrage.

 

[edcraw]

Given that he seems to have done something wrong, enough wrong to result in a chase which the police would try to end, then that reasoning fails.

Do you have access to some special report that states this?

 

[platinumsage]

Do you have access to some special report that states this?

Lots of reliable news sources state that he was the driver and was being chased by the police. Sure they could all be wrong, but it seems unreasonable to conclude that they're definitely all wrong based on no evidence at all.

 

[edcraw]

Lots of reliable news sources state that he was the driver and was being chased by the police. Sure they could all be wrong, but it seems unreasonable to conclude that they're definitely all wrong based on no evidence at all.

You said he’d done something wrong to mean the police was chasing him. Where have you got that from?

 

[platinumsage]

You said he’d done something wrong to mean the police was chasing him. Where have you got that from?

If he was being chased by the police then he failed to stop for the police, which is an offence.

 

[edcraw]

If he was being chased by the police then he failed to stop for the police, which is an offence.

So you’re saying he failed to stop so was being chased? How do you know this? This isn’t even speculation you’re stating facts.

 

[platinumsage]

 

[edcraw]

Struggling to find much evidence for any chase as well. Referred to very briefly here but literally no details:

Man shot dead by police in south London 'was set to become father'

Chris Kaba, who was in his 20s, died in hospital in the early hours of Tuesday morning after being shot at about 10pm on Monday night in Streatham Hill.

news.sky.com

Maybe you have other sources.

 

[Pickman's model]

Do you have some kind of access to a special report on what happened in order to conclude that he "wasn't doing anything wrong"? Do you know, for example, that he did not fail to to stop the vehicle when directed to do so by the police?

You're a dishonest little shit, leaving out the important word 'driving'. He was not doing anything wrong driving.