The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Please see my reply to the others.
Chris Kaba, 24, shot dead by police in Streatham, Mon 5th Sept 2022
- Thread starter GarveyLives
- Start date
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Yes. But that was in relation to terrorists who might have their finger on a bomb detonator, so shooting them in the head multiple times to physically destroy their nervous system, and ability to press the button. It's irrelevant to this.
Again, can you link to the media piece that you are referring to?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
You can look up this stuff yourself, you mightvfind it interesting and a valuable use of your time?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I'm not looking to source the correct guidelines.
I believe that the information that you posted was incorrect. You said it's in the media, so I presume you've read it in the media and will be able to quote it. If you do that, we can take a look at where it's come from and examine it.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I don't know if any of you have been in a situation where you were going to shoot someone, but I have.
Hannover 1979 02:30 I was on gate guard armed with an SMG, magazine of ten rounds attached. There had been IRA activity which had put BAOR on high alert.
The driveway up to the hospital terminated in a 'T' junction, turn left and you pass through an archway which has a light shining down, turn right and you are into darkness. Turning left leads to the other ranks accommodation, cars are parked directly below.
I was on duty with a Cpl, who was asleep in the sentry box.
A car came up the driveway at some speed, and weaved between the barriers and turned left. I was cocked, safety off, loose aim, waiting for the driver to be silhouetted in the light over the archway, ready to shoot him in the back of the head.
At that point, the Cpl, who had been awakened by the car, saw what was happening, shot out of the sentry box and pushed the weapon aside saying 'That's Jim Cowie the Lab Tech'. He had come back from the town in his car drunk, as he often did. Because I was married and lived in a Quarter away from the hospital, I didn't know what cars people had.
I had been within a few pounds of trigger pull from killing one of our own, it was a range of about thirty yards.
The really odd thing was that it wasn't a human being I was going to shoot, it was a target that it was my duty to knock down.
Had I fired I would not have been found guilty of anything, which would have been small comfort, having to live the rest of my life knowing that I had killed someone.
The decision to open fire was taken in a couple of seconds, training takes over, you do what has to be done.
I very much doubt if that policeman (assuming that he remains a policeman) will ever handle a firearm again, and he has to live with the fact that he has killed someone.
Hannover 1979 02:30 I was on gate guard armed with an SMG, magazine of ten rounds attached. There had been IRA activity which had put BAOR on high alert.
The driveway up to the hospital terminated in a 'T' junction, turn left and you pass through an archway which has a light shining down, turn right and you are into darkness. Turning left leads to the other ranks accommodation, cars are parked directly below.
I was on duty with a Cpl, who was asleep in the sentry box.
A car came up the driveway at some speed, and weaved between the barriers and turned left. I was cocked, safety off, loose aim, waiting for the driver to be silhouetted in the light over the archway, ready to shoot him in the back of the head.
At that point, the Cpl, who had been awakened by the car, saw what was happening, shot out of the sentry box and pushed the weapon aside saying 'That's Jim Cowie the Lab Tech'. He had come back from the town in his car drunk, as he often did. Because I was married and lived in a Quarter away from the hospital, I didn't know what cars people had.
I had been within a few pounds of trigger pull from killing one of our own, it was a range of about thirty yards.
The really odd thing was that it wasn't a human being I was going to shoot, it was a target that it was my duty to knock down.
Had I fired I would not have been found guilty of anything, which would have been small comfort, having to live the rest of my life knowing that I had killed someone.
The decision to open fire was taken in a couple of seconds, training takes over, you do what has to be done.
I very much doubt if that policeman (assuming that he remains a policeman) will ever handle a firearm again, and he has to live with the fact that he has killed someone.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
I don't think it matters who was driving, it was the vehicle with the marker for firearms, and the usual assumption is its highly likely there's a gun it, and it could be on the way to carry out another offence, so it had to be stopped.
Even if they knew Kaba was behind the wheel, it needed stopping ASAP, they wouldn't allow him to drive off and potentially kill someone, then pop round his place later.
yes, I know what happened. to be blunt, it seems you're the one who is only just now catching up with the details but somehow think you know better than everyone who followed the case.
this seems about as cut and dry as it's possible to be despite the innate complexity. the fact that people are still desperately reaching to find something the police did wrong is pretty frustrating and, I think, undermines future efforts to hold the police to account when they do act improperly.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
This has long been the problem with the ACAB crew. They really don't have much of a leg to stand on here but that won't stop the usual suspects from ripping their nails out, clutching at straws.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I assume of they knew it was him they would have gone straight to his address not gone looking for the car. Not that it matters as they didn't, just a thought.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
They didn't go looking for the car, it was spotted out on the road, then they followed it, in order to arrange a stop.
Seems as it wasn't his car, nor was the insurance in his name, there was no way for them to predict at some point later he would be driving it.
The police seem to have a lot more patience in this hard stop. Wonder what the difference was.
And interesting that the now commissioner was very defensive 10 years ago when he was questioned why they hadn't followed a recommendation to review the use of hard stops.
www.theguardian.com
And interesting that the now commissioner was very defensive 10 years ago when he was questioned why they hadn't followed a recommendation to review the use of hard stops.
Police admit they should have reviewed tactic used in Mark Duggan case
Independent Police Complaints Commission recommended the review of 'hard stop' in 2005, saying it was a 'high risk option'
Which community? My community in Hackney was damaged when Kaba shot someone in a local club.
absolutely.
I was referring to the community around Kaba who sat they have been traumatised etc.
Chris Kaba verdict is traumatising, say black community leaders
Community leaders say London's black communities are traumatised over the Chris Kaba court case.
www.bbc.co.uk
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
Yes, that club lost its license permanently.
I'm sure Kaba had many victims in his short life, including the mother of his unborn child according to the media. So the pearl clutchers with the placards up in arms determined to blame someone for what happened might want to settle down a bit and reflect on what a waste of life due to poor choices made by the individual.
Couldn't agree more.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
Chris kaba driving a car at officers
Thinges is
Close quarter shooting that sort of high pressure shooting your trying to hit the person centre of the person is preferred but your take what you can get.
Seen people in training empty a magazine at 6 feet and not get any hits. So I wouldn't get too hung up on the headshot he'd be shooting at the best target he had.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
And how fast was he driving at them when he was shot?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The Telegraph has some good body cam footage and simulations of this .
Btw I briefly glanced at the de Menezes thread earlier and was most impressed with likesfish analysis that ‘shit happens’ .
PTK
Paul Kegan
Will he, though? Did the police know who they were shooting?
zedr
new but not *that* new
It's perfectly possible to believe that the way Kaba conducted his life caused serious and lasting harm to those around him and should have been held accountable for this, and also to think that the police should not have shot and killed him. It helps no one to dismiss people who think this as pearl clutchers.
I've found this thread pretty depressing. I can understand why people might abhor things which Kaba is alleged to have done and why they feel no sympathy for him as a result. I'd expect that to come with some level of sympathy for his family and those grieving around him which has seemed relatively absent.
I can also understand why people might feel sympathy for the cop who will have to live with killing someone (as Sasaferrato mentioned above). However I'd also expect that view to come with some level of calling for emotional support for him, rather than support for lowering the accountability for firearms officers.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
100% heartfelt sympathy for his poor, poor parents and family, though not for any friends of his who are similarly involved in making people's lives a frightening misery. Gangsters. Fuck'em.
I truly hope he is getting any mental and emotional support that he needs. Armed officers are an unfortunate necessity, and we require them to do an incredibly dangerous and difficult job, which for the most part, they perform admirably.
They should be able to go to work without the constant worry that they will be charged with murder for carrying out their duty. Of course, gross negligence or straightforward murder should be prosecuted, but it shouldn't be the default every time a criminal is shot.
PursuedByBears
Go stick your head in a pig
Haven't some gangsters already taken out a £10K contract on the copper?
That's what the police said - they also said there was a car chase.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Supposedly. Be interesting to see if anyone is so utterly stupid to take a 100% guaranteed whole life order for the sake of £10K.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Yes 10k is a piddling amount.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I watched, indeed took part in, the discharge of 13x3x5 (195) 9mm rounds discharged from Browning semi automatics at a plastic coffee cup fifteen feet away, without a single hit. (Half an hour earlier I had scored 50 out of 56 on my personal weapons test with an SMG.) Handguns are not easy to hit things with.
I've also fired an SMG on auto, you would need arms like a gorilla to keep it down.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Actually, most likely bollocks put out by plod in order to achieve this:
Firearms officers to get anonymity in shooting legal proceedings - Cooper
Firearms officers to get presumption of anonymity in trials over shootings in line of duty, home secretary says.
www.bbc.co.uk
bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
I’m guessing you are fully conversant with the police fire arms policies, procedures, guidelines and training
bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
The police seem to have a lot more patience in this hard stop. Wonder what the difference was.
And interesting that the now commissioner was very defensive 10 years ago when he was questioned why they hadn't followed a recommendation to review the use of hard stops.
Police admit they should have reviewed tactic used in Mark Duggan case
Independent Police Complaints Commission recommended the review of 'hard stop' in 2005, saying it was a 'high risk option'
The silver vehicle didn’t have a current “hot” firearms marker on it perhaps?
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Was clearly being used as a weapon though.
But without more context it's hard to compare incidents.
He does sound like a bit of a dick. Besides shooting people and beating the shit out of people here and there, also a spot of woman beating on the side for which he was banged up for.
They really shouldn't have named the cop though as apparently he has a family himself so their lives are gonna be a bit shit from now on out.
As much a I despise the Met, I honestly don't think race had anything to do with this. It was a tinted windscreen. And the cop didn't know who was inside.
They really shouldn't have named the cop though as apparently he has a family himself so their lives are gonna be a bit shit from now on out.
As much a I despise the Met, I honestly don't think race had anything to do with this. It was a tinted windscreen. And the cop didn't know who was inside.
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