Cecil, famous Lion from Zimbabwe shot dead by Dentist from Minnesota for $55k

[coley]

I have to admit to feeling that this is all getting a bit out of hand.

It seems to me that some people really do care more for animals than humans, which is fucked up in the extreme.

Think of all the situations where mistreatment of people hasn't caused this kind of reaction.

Fair point, but we aren't on the point of extinction are we?

 

[DotCommunist]

No, they don't

take em out to a field, give em 3 sheets of a4 and let them do their letters. Then a fag and goodnight. Ideally you let them do the letters the night before. But either way, that should be it. I jest about some of the harsher deaths I wish on various politicos but really just take em somewhere quiet and get it done. No glory in neccesity

 

[coley]

take em out to a field, give em 3 sheets of a4 and let them do their letters. Then a fag and goodnight. Ideally you let them do the letters the night before. But either way, that should be it. I jest about some of the harsher deaths I wish on various politicos but really just take em somewhere quiet and get it done. No glory in neccesity

Aye, I can understand the gut reaction, but going down to the level 'they' would impose? Better let decency override our instincts and let the world see these bastards rot in jail to the end of their natural.

 

[DotCommunist]

Aye, I can understand the gut reaction, but going down to the level 'they' would impose? Better let decency override our instincts and let the world see these bastards rot in jail to the end of their natural.

ah yeah, when I say necessity, I'm talking about the dictates that run an insurgency. Certainly this prat deserves no more than spending the next few weeks as a world wide hated man and some trouble finding clients who want his tooth fixing services. He aint nairac.

 

[Spymaster]

Fair point, but we aren't on the point of extinction are we?

No, but neither are lions.

My point was that we've got Johnny V, pitching hook-line-and-sinker into the prevailing hatred of this cunt and suggesting that he's equivalent of travelling nonce merchants.

As far as I'm concerned, killing all the lions in the world, morally, still falls far short of noncing one single human kid.

Perspective.

 

[Humberto]

Many people care about both. From the outside, killing things with guns seems to be an American obsession.

Unless you are aristocratic or rich enough to pretend. Like David Cameron shooting stags for fun.

 

[Humberto]

No, but neither are lions.

From recollection numbers have severely dwindled.

 

[tim]

Was Cecil named after that all round bon oeuf , Cecil Rhodes?

Rather appropriate as this debate pits the old-fashioned"let's slaughter some furry fuckers" imperialist values against those of the contemporary tree hugging neo-imperialists.

It's shameful that even on a site like this, the death of a lion gets so much more focus than the oppression and injustice suffered by so many humans in Africa

 

[Spymaster]

Rather appropriate as this debate pits the old-fashioned"let's slaughter some furry fuckers" imperialist values against those of the contemporary tree hugging neo-imperialists.

It's shameful that even on a site like this, the death of a lion gets so much more focus than the oppression and injustice suffered by so many humans in Africa

Dunno about shameful, but I hear what your saying.

Perspective.

Lacking.

 

[DotCommunist]

the people raising voice in anger at this lions death have of course never at all bothered to raise voice in anger against wider deaths, no siree. All massive hypocrites.

 

[Spymaster]

the people raising voice in anger at this lions death have of course never at all bothered to raise voice in anger against wider deaths ....

Soz for chopping-up your post, Dotski, but yes.

That IS largely the case, imo.

 

[DotCommunist]

Soz for chopping-up your post, Dotski, but yes.

That IS largely the case, imo.

bollocks

 

[Spymaster]

bollocks

Cunts

 

[toggle]

Soz for chopping-up your post, Dotski, but yes.

That IS largely the case, imo.

i think you're being unfair on the majority of people voicing disgust at this incident, and at the various forms of trophy hunting.

the people baying for blood, i don't think they ever really give a fuck about anyhting until they get what they think is a morally and socially acceptable outlet for their torture fantasies. and since a load of dark people dying in one of those places we should still own isn't going to create that opportunity to get a group hate on, then they won't give a shit.

 

[tim]

the people raising voice in anger at this lions death have of course never at all bothered to raise voice in anger against wider deaths, no siree. All massive hypocrites.

Well there's a covert racism that tends to portray Africa as a glorified wildlife park where the people are seen as slightly irrelevant and often inconvenient extras. On this thread I see one group of privileged outsiders attacking another group of the same because they want to slaughter the wildlife rather than fetishise it. The whole game park culture with its displacement of humans to make way for wildlife; its teams heavily armed game keepers ready to slaughter poachers and its white gurus (Attenborough Goodall etc) is an grotesque gigantic version of the estates of the European landed classes.

 

[xenon]

Soz for chopping-up your post, Dotski, but yes.

That IS largely the case, imo.

Part of that is because it is simpler, more straightforward to condemn this bloke. An example of a needless selfish barbaric act. His financial situation affords him the opportunity to do such a thing, with all that implies. But on the surface, it is just a selfish wantem despicable act. Where as doing more than handwringing and expressing platitudes over the fate of those poor fuckers in Calais requires a systematic analysis. Asking why them and not us. What gives rise to that situation, how can it be changed, what powers and motivations drive such complex systematic interactions.

Then of course there are a few weirdos that prefer animals over humans no matter what. I have not read the whole thread. Not sure there is too much of a latter here but I have heard similar sentiment before.

 

[tim]

I Hopefully killing animals purely for fun will soon be seen as unacceptable as going abroad to do some noncing.

There is a clear moral difference between killing an animal and sexually abusing a child.

 

[xenon]

i think you're being unfair on the majority of people voicing disgust at this incident, and at the various forms of trophy hunting.

the people baying for blood, i don't think they ever really give a fuck about anyhting until they get what they think is a morally and socially acceptable outlet for their torture fantasies. and since a load of dark people dying in one of those places we should still own isn't going to create that opportunity to get a group hate on, then they won't give a shit.

Well maybe a bit of this too. Not so much the imperialist stuff IMO BUT THE FIRST BIT.See nonce threads of old.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

There is a clear moral difference between killing an animal and sexually abusing a child.

Killing an animal (especially an endangered species) purely for fun and bloodlust to feed your ego? It's a different thing, but I personally find it just as disturbing, especially backed up with posing photos. But you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

No, but neither are lions.

My point was that we've got Johnny V, pitching hook-line-and-sinker into the prevailing hatred of this cunt and suggesting that he's equivalent of travelling nonce merchants.

As far as I'm concerned, killing all the lions in the world, morally, still falls far short of noncing one single human kid.

Perspective.

Actually, I do have perspective. I, unlike a lot of internet peeps, have suggested a punishment short of death for him. Sorry if you don't see any parallels with nonce tourism - but I do.

 

[kabbes]

I think part of the anger is that of somebody who would love more than anything to see such a creature in the wild and now sees somebody else pissing on that dream, reducing the chances of it happening and mocking the joy of it. It's the sense of entitlement -- what gives you the right to think you deserve to kill this animal that I love? It's not just about anger for the killed, it's also anger on behalf of oneself.

 

[weltweit]

.. It's shameful that even on a site like this, the death of a lion gets so much more focus than the oppression and injustice suffered by so many humans in Africa

I am not sure I agree with this tim, there is only one thread about the killing of Cecil the lion which I started (this one), but there have been many threads about the oppression violence and killing of Palestinians by Israel, of the killing of young black men in the USA by the police, and the like. And if you wish to start a thread about such subjects you can of course do so at any time.

Dunno about shameful, but I hear what your saying.

Perspective.

Lacking.

I don't think a single thread about the abuse and killing of a wild lion in Africa really counts as "lack of perspective".

 

[hash tag]

Rather appropriate as this debate pits the old-fashioned"let's slaughter some furry fuckers" imperialist values against those of the contemporary tree hugging neo-imperialists.

It's shameful that even on a site like this, the death of a lion gets so much more focus than the oppression and injustice suffered by so many humans in Africa

Speaking of injustice suffered by fellow human beings, "we" should not be taking holidays of any description in Mugabe's oppressive state that is Zimbabwe. That should
also be a crime.

 

[tim]

Killing an animal (especially an endangered species) purely for fun and bloodlust to feed your ego? It's a different thing, but I personally find it just as disturbing, especially backed up with posing photos. But you're entitled to your opinion.

We (non-vegans) have animals incarcerated and killed for the pleasure that eating them and their by-products give us. We don't need to do this, we could all survive on a vegan diet. I fail to see how having an animal killed to give us fun differs from killing an animal for fun. Although, having said that, I'm sure that Cecil, a whilst alive, had a much better quality of life than the vast majority of cattle, swine and fowl languishing on British farms.

Following the logic of your nonce analogy, there must, in your mind, surely be no difference between having a nice bacon sandwich and going to Cambodia to rape children

 

[Citizen66]

Oh fuck off with turning every thread into meat vs veggies.

 

[DotCommunist]

It's the sense of entitlement

as I mentioned upthread, thats the real pisstake here. If I'm quite honest I don't really care about foxes- I'd like them to be left alone to do their thing because thats fair enough but some entitled cunt on his big horse acting out his Great Hunt fantasies? fuck off. Piano wire at neck height, strung between the trees.

 

[Citizen66]

It's the being able to fritter $55,000 on the privilege of something so senseless during supposed straitened times that sticks in the craw.

 

[tim]

I think part of the anger is that of somebody who would love more than anything to see such a creature in the wild and now sees somebody else pissing on that dream, reducing the chances of it happening and mocking the joy of it. It's the sense of entitlement -- what gives you the right to think you deserve to kill this animal that I love? It's not just about anger for the killed, it's also anger on behalf of oneself.

Ah, the romance of travelling across the savannah to see exotic beasts capering in the dust and then going back to camp, exhausted by ones travels, and have pliant native will serve G & T's and fulfil any other needs that one might haves. A dream dashed by the callous bloodlust of a bizzarely armed dentist from the American Mid-West.

In reality,of course, the safari tourist industry is equally capable of fulfilling the fantasies of the voyeurs as it is of the big game slaughterers. They're never actually going to run out of these beasts as they can breed them up on their game farms to replace depleted stock

 

[Johnny Vodka]

We (non-vegans) have animals incarcerated and killed for the pleasure that eating them and their by-products give us. We don't need to do this, we could all survive on a vegan diet. I fail to see how having an animal killed to give us fun differs from killing an animal for fun. Although, having said that, I'm sure that Cecil, a whilst alive, had a much better quality of life than the vast majority of cattle, swine and fowl languishing on British farms.

Following the logic of your nonce analogy, there must, in your mind, surely be no difference between having a nice bacon sandwich and going to Cambodia to rape children

Humans evolved eating meat. Animals eat other animals. That's just the way it works. That said, I think it's good if us humans try to cut back on meat (I try to) and give consideration to animal welfare in the food supply. I'd welcome any policies that push in this direction.

It's the idea that this guy and others of his ilk kill needlessly and purely for fun that offends. Do you not wonder if these people get off on the same sense of power that a nonce might? I give money, I can do what I want with this child or animal. I'm really proud of what I've done. Okay, I've never hunted, but I do forage for wild mushrooms and ethics are always at the front of my mind when I do - treating nature with respect, leaving plenty behind to spore and for fellow foragers, etc. I'm sure there are hunters that bring principles to their hunt, and, yeah, killing wild animals for food is probably more ethical than eating factory farmed chicken.

 

[tim]

It's the being able to fritter $55,000 on the privilege of something so senseless during supposed straitened times that sticks in the craw.

Is it any worse than spending that much or more on an expensive car? And would such an qct of slaugher be more acceptable in less straightened times?