Cecil, famous Lion from Zimbabwe shot dead by Dentist from Minnesota for $55k

[likesfish]

it's a big firm it can afford it. one cavalry office was most pissed off when he heard about the incident he really wanted to hunt a jaguar but there mostly protected so he couldn't play the great white hunter.
it would have saved on ammo and worse case we need a new Rupert so win win really*


*likesfish does not encourage the feeding of junior officers to the wildlife even if it would be funny as fuck

 

[likesfish]

many years later in the Falklands one section was invited to help cull geese apparently geese eating grass is a threat fired over 600 rounds result in some slightly perturbed geese automatic fire from the hip while running at the flock achieves very little
made worse that the FIDF woman with them killed two with a sterling although offering them bread and then shooting them in the head at point-blank isn't really sporting

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Charges dropped against Cecil the lion hunter

Fucking wanker.

Here's the thing, even if I were to agree with you that this fella is indeed a "fucking wanker" and that killing a lion for "the pleasure of the hunt" is abominable, because there is widespread agreement on this and Cecil is "someone" (he even has a name), calling out this dude is not seen as being "judgemental".

Compare and contrast that with the what is the norm and widely practiced. We pay for and endorse the killing of billions of animals, the majority of that killing is NOT merely for survival, it is for "the pleasure of our taste buds" and convenience. Now I consider that even more abominable, however, because there is widespread acceptance of this abomination, calling out anybody who is supports this mass killing is being "judgemental". imo the mass murder is a lot worse than what this hunter did. The victims are numerous and nameless. They are objects and not personalities, not "someones" but "somethings", merely commodities, which makes it far easier to really not give two shits about them.

These protests are EQUALLY valid imo...

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I don’t think eating some fried chicken is comparable to hunting rare species of big game for fun ffs.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I don’t think eating some fried chicken is comparable to hunting rare species of big game for fun ffs.

ffs indeed, "some fried chicken" ...as if to illustrate the very point that I was trying to make. A similar opinion was expressed in this Guardian opinion piece...

"Factory farming may be more cruel to the animals. But it takes no pleasure in its cruelty. And that’s why the condemnation of Dr Palmer is fully justified."

If condemnation of Dr Palmer is (quite rightly) justified then, imo, condemnation of the consumers, who, through their purchasing choices enable the widespread mass killings to be routine and normal, is also justified, isn't it? Dr Palmer and those who argue in favour of hunting might say in their defence that their methods are for the most part a bit less cruel compared to the industrial scale mass slaughter and they might have a bit of a point.

The fact that the "some fried chicken" isn't worthy of a name like Cecil (or Cecilia) is indicative of the low commodity level value we place on their miserable lives and horrible deaths. Cecil the Lion is worth more because of his rarity and good looks. Of course those who want to be able to enjoy their McChicken Nuggets guilt free would rather "look the other way" and won't want to acknowledge the reality, so for them horrible hunters like Dr Palmer are useful in diverting attention away from their own complicity. The number of animals killed to satisfy our tastebuds are several orders of magnitude more than the number killed by trophy hunters. (not that I'm condoning the fuckwit hunters in any way shape or form)

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Good luck with winning anyone over with that argument.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Good luck with winning anyone over with that argument.

Well tbh, it's not about me "winning anyone over", self evident truths eventually sell themselves.

Smart and compassionate people realise when their beliefs are not in alignment with their actions and will at least give some thought to changing their behaviours. The less compassionate will just carry on eating their nuggets in blissful ignorance. It's currently a slow process however the momentum is building and more people are waking up.

 

[8ball]

Good luck with winning anyone over with that argument.

It will win some over, depending on how it's phrased.
Obviously a post on urban is going to be reaching a small audience that is more than averagely sympathetic.

 

[Poi E]

Home

Look forward to the day these guys and their competition start to turn crops straight into meat. Aside from the ethical issues farming is an environmental nightmare.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Charges dropped against Cecil the lion hunter

Fucking wanker.

Zim cops arrest Cecil hunter over sable smuggling

he was been keeping himself busy whilst on bail through

 

[likesfish]

south africa you can now shoot intensively reared lions and other creatures who are released into a compound so you can shoot them might as well just go to the zoo and shoot something
South Africa Lion Hunts - Lion Hunt in South Africa Lion Safari in Limpopo, South Africa next urban holiday

 

[tim]

I don’t think eating some fried chicken is comparable to hunting rare species of big game for fun ffs.

Of course not those lions be they truly wild or the farmed variety will have had a much better quality of life than a battery farmed chicken.
As to rarity well the lions' range is considerably decreased but there are still 20,000 in the wild and they are easily bred in captivity.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Of course not those lions be they truly wild or the farmed variety will have had a much better quality of life than a battery farmed chicken.
As to rarity well the lions' range is considerably decreased but there are still 20,000 in the wild and they are easily bred in captivity.

The story struck a chord and I don’t think that pointing out how terrible a battery farmed hen’s life is whilst basically calling people hypocrites is going to win many of them over.
For starters the consumer isn’t to blame for how animals are farmed any more than mobile phone users are to blame for mineral wars in the Congo. It’s a daft liberal argument.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

It will win some over, depending on how it's phrased.
Obviously a post on urban is going to be reaching a small audience that is more than averagely sympathetic.

There's a sound fundamental principle that will get through to some. Unfortunately there is a lot of defensiveness which causes people to automatically knee jerk reject any idea which challenges sacred cow beliefs. (ie there's absolutely nothing wrong with fried chicken). Anything posted on the internet has the potential for a widespread audience. By the power of Greyskull (and internet search engines), stuff posted in urban doesn't need to stay in urban.

 

[cupid_stunt]

A thread about a lion, hijacked by a bloody vegan.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Good oxymoron.

 

[weltweit]

I have some sympathy with the all meat is murder type of arguments, although I worked on farms as a youth. But at least we do eat the product of the farm animal, whereas the dentist just wanted a trophy for his wall.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Well if this thread really was just a thread "about a lion", it wouldn't be 17 pages long before it was apparently "hijacked". Poor Cecil, Palmer is a cunt, job done, thread over in about 4 posts, no? I guess you can't expect dumb stunts to understand depth and nuance. Why are deaths like Cecil's significant, yet other far more numerous deaths get little attention or sympathy and have become routine. Is rarity a good enough reason?

It would be interesting to see an explanation of how Dr Palmer paying lots of his own money to hunt and kill a lion at close quarters, is so much worse than a regular punter paying someone else to kill and chop up Bessie the slave cow (and millions like her). What's the difference? What if all of Cecil's bits were eaten (bushmeat burgers anyone?) or put to "good use", would that make it ok?

 

[kabbes]

Why are deaths like Cecil's significant, yet other far more numerous deaths get little attention or sympathy and have become routine. Is rarity a good enough reason?

Are you arguing that all types of life should be viewed as precisely equal in value, or is there any wriggle room at all in that principle?

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Are you arguing that all types of life should be viewed as precisely equal in value, or is there any wriggle room at all in that principle?

Is a lion "worth more" than a cow? How does one measure the "value" of life?

 

[andysays]

Home

Look forward to the day these guys and their competition start to turn crops straight into meat. Aside from the ethical issues farming is an environmental nightmare.

Hmm, perhaps you're unaware that nature has already evolved a perfectly well functioning method of turning plants into meat...

 

[kabbes]

Is a lion "worth more" than a cow? How does one measure the "value" of life?

No, I asked you a question of principle. Is all life of the same value or is it okay to discriminate at some point?

 

[PaoloSanchez]

No, I asked you a question of principle. Is all life of the same value or is it okay to discriminate at some point?

You asked if all life is "precisely equal in value". What do you mean by "value" and how do you measure that value?

As far as I'm concerned, a lion is not worth any more or any less than a cow. If you believe otherwise it would be interesting to hear what measure you use. Is there some sort of commodity market for animals where their "shares" go up and down in value?

 

[kabbes]

You asked if all life is "precisely equal in value". What do you mean by "value" and how do you measure that value?

As far as I'm concerned, a lion is not worth any more or any less than a cow. If you believe otherwise it would be interesting to hear what measure you use. Is there some sort of commodity market for animals where their "shares" go up and down in value?

OK then, if you want to micro-focus on examples rather than discussing the principle, is an ant's life worth the same as a cow's?

 

[PaoloSanchez]

OK then, if you want to micro-focus on examples rather than discussing the principle, is an ant's life worth the same as a cow's?

How are you measuring the "worth"? ...and from who's perspective? What is the principle that you are trying to discuss?

 

[kabbes]

How are you measuring the "worth"? ...and from who's perspective? What is the principle that you are trying to discuss?

I want to know your perspective using whichever value system you personally attach to. I want to know if you take an absolutist view that no life should ever be placed above another or if you personally do discriminate at some level.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I want to know your perspective using whichever value system you personally attach to.

I have already said, as far as I'm concerned, a lion is worth no more or no less then a cow. I don't have a rating system. I presume seeing as you asked the question that you do have some kind of value system in mind which makes the lion worth more than the cow.

 

[kabbes]

I have already said, as far as I'm concerned, a lion is worth no more or no less then a cow. I don't have a rating system. I presume seeing as you asked the question that you do have some kind of value system in mind which makes the lion worth more than the cow.

I didn't ask you about lions and cows. I asked you about ants and cows.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I didn't ask you about lions and cows. I asked you about ants and cows.

Same answer applies. (now who's doing the "micro focussing"? )

What was the principle you were trying to discuss again? You didn't say.

 

[Teaboy]

You asked if all life is "precisely equal in value". What do you mean by "value" and how do you measure that value?

As far as I'm concerned, a lion is not worth any more or any less than a cow. If you believe otherwise it would be interesting to hear what measure you use. Is there some sort of commodity market for animals where their "shares" go up and down in value?

I believe currently a lion's life is worth more than a cow's life.

There's a lot of talk about space exploration and the rest at the moment, Elon's Mars colony etc. The fact is as far as I can tell the rest of space is one massive shit hole, a barren wasteland that is incapable of supporting any life. Horrendous conditions and extremes of heat.

We currently live on an absolute paradise, it is quite simply extraordinary. Part of that paradise is the abundance of wildlife that currently exists and its incredible variations. As humans we are temporary guardians of this planet and as such I believe we have an obligation to preserve this paradise as best as we can for the future. If our actions are threatening a species than it is absolutely our obligation to take action to protect that species over and above protecting individual animals from successful species.

There is a secondary point here as well in that if we are unable to save and protect a species as magnificent and iconic as the lion what on earth chance do the myriad of other species currently endangered stand?

This is why I believe that currently a lion is more important than a farmyard cow. In a hypothetical situation where we had to intervene to save the lion by feeding them I'd have no objection to cows being used for this.