Cecil, famous Lion from Zimbabwe shot dead by Dentist from Minnesota for $55k

[Yuwipi Woman]

We have 7 billion people on the planet. Figures seem a bit hard to get, but around 90 per cent of us eat meat.

So you can have 7 billion people the planet with more than 6 billion of them eating meat. We can see that. It's what we have now.

But, not sustainably:

It takes the planet 1.5 years to restore what humanity burns through in a year.

- As a result, the world's biodiversity is now down 30 percent since the 1970s.

The world's biodiversity is down 30 percent since the 1970s, according to a new report, with tropical species taking the biggest hit. And if humanity continues as it has been, the picture could get bleaker.

Humanity is outstripping the Earth's resources by 50 percent — essentially using the resources of one and a half Earths every year, according to the 2012 Living Planet Report, produced by conservation agency the World Wildlife Fund (WWF).

http://news.discovery.com/earth/weather-extreme-events/biodiversity-down-30-percent-120515.htm

 

[DotCommunist]

I'm not an enviromentalist I just give a shit about animals and the nice things like water and massive trees and so on. I can hold this position while eating meat because it ent me who runs tings, if it was I'd try to make shit more ethical and sustainable. However I don't run tings and if I asked for a go at running the gig posh people would laugh at me and their minions would menace me with menaces and weapons.

 

[andysays]

I'm not an enviromentalist I just give a shit about animals and the nice things like water and massive trees and so on. I can hold this position while eating meat because it ent me who runs tings, if it was I'd try to make shit more ethical and sustainable. However I don't run tings and if I asked for a go at running the gig posh people would laugh at me and their minions would menace me with menaces and weapons.

Pretty sure that makes you an environmentalist, at least in the broad sense.

 

[ViolentPanda]

One of the biggest reasons for deforestation btw is the production of palm oil, not meat. two sheds' point is a very valid one - eating meat/not eating meat is but one of many indices of energy consumption, and it's not the most important.

And soya production.

For livestock feed.

 

[chilango]

I'm probably going to say something many people won't like. You can't be an environmentalist and a carnivore at the same time. Meat production is one of the biggest things that's causing deforestation, habitat loss, overuse of water, and greenhouse gas emissions.

What about hunter gatherers?

 

[LiamO]

A Sonnet For Cecil
Cecil, the Lion, shot by a dentist
Sufficient to make one choke on one's wine
No mention of the hate-fueled racist
who murdered a baby in Palestine

Immolated before her second birthday
As she innocently slept in her cot
Before she could speak or run, jump and play
It's the West's shameful, collective blind spot

So the obvious headline selection
A baby girl fried alive in her bed?
No. We look in the other direction
A dead lion's the top story instead

Facebooked, Twittered, faux outrage we construct
Let's face it. Our moral compass is fucked

 

[Citizen66]

Probably, seeing as it's such a meaningless term. Just bear in mind that cattle, swine and poultry are suffering because of your dietary choices and refrain from wittering about the cruelty inflicted on animals by others.

You won't rest until this is a meat vs veggies bunfight, will you?

 

[DRINK?]

A Sonnet For Cecil
Cecil, the Lion, shot by a dentist
Sufficient to make one choke on one's wine
No mention of the hate-fueled racist
who murdered a baby in Palestine

Immolated before her second birthday
As she innocently slept in her cot
Before she could speak or run, jump and play
It's the West's shameful, collective blind spot

So the obvious headline selection
A baby girl fried alive in her bed?
No. We look in the other direction
A dead lion's the top story instead

Facebooked, Twittered, faux outrage we construct
Let's face it. Our moral compass is fucked

Amen - shit poem though agree with the sentiment, plenty worse things going on in Zimbabwe than fucking Cecil getting popped. Band wagon jumping social media shite from professional lighter wavers. The hunter is a dick mind

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And soya production.

For livestock feed.

sure. And if the world turned veggie overnight, what would happen to the capital tied up in meat production? It would switch, to stuff like oil palm production, to produce other consumables to be sold for profit.

Directing the attack at meat-eaters is, imo, to misunderstand the process. Reckless exploitation to the max is what capitalism does. Vegetarian capitalists would do no different.

 

[Treacle Toes]

A Sonnet For Cecil
Cecil, the Lion, shot by a dentist
Sufficient to make one choke on one's wine
No mention of the hate-fueled racist
who murdered a baby in Palestine

Immolated before her second birthday
As she innocently slept in her cot
Before she could speak or run, jump and play
It's the West's shameful, collective blind spot

So the obvious headline selection
A baby girl fried alive in her bed?
No. We look in the other direction
A dead lion's the top story instead

Facebooked, Twittered, faux outrage we construct
Let's face it. Our moral compass is fucked

Well said.

I am insulted by the nasty irony and fickle contradictions of the news in recent days (like most weeks actually)...A lion, protected (rightly so) yet internationally mourned over in this way?...however thousands of immigrants/refugees, repeatedly referred to as animals and dehumanised, the camp named the jungle, their lives mean nothing.

Cecil was killed by the same fucking attitudes of wealth/power/priviledge that cause/caused these camps to exist, and as you so very rightly point out, kill babies. Those babies lives mean nothing.

 

[DotCommunist]

I've said it before and I'll say it again- the lion is an awesome beast and unless I had to live next to a murdery one I continue to like them. But the point isn't about the death of one lion here, its about the entitlement of the wealthy who think they can buy anything. They can buy sex, they can buy death, they can buy sychophancy and respect. 55k to play the great white hunter, and then insult to injury, leave the fucker dragging its wounded arse around for a few days. It's not that I loved cecil or even knew the fucker existed but its an expression of power and privilege writ small as much as camerons 'more fences, more dogs, kick them out of their houses' tory attitude is the same mentality writ large. I'm rich, you aint. I'll do what I like when I like and you povs had better not try to follow my lead cos I'll stick you in prison

 

[Treacle Toes]

But the point isn't about the death of one lion here, its about the entitlement of the wealth who think they can buy anything.

I just said that.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I've said it before and I'll say it again- the lion is an awesome beast and unless I had to live next to a murdery one I continue to like them. But the point isn't about the death of one lion here, its about the entitlement of the wealthy who think they can buy anything. They can bu sex, they can buy death, they can buy sychophancy and respect. 55k to play the great white hunter, and then insult to injury, leave the fucker dragging its wounded arse around for a few days. It's not that I loved cecil or even knew the fucker existed but its an expression of power and privilege writ small as much as camerons 'more fences, more dogs, kick them out of their houses' tory attitude is the same mentality writ large. I'm rich, you aint. I'll do what I like when I like and you povs had better not try to follow my lead cos I'll stick you in prison

Yep. Same reason why I cheered when fox hunting was banned.

 

[DotCommunist]

I just said that.

so I see! I just got as far as liamo's sonnet which lays the charge of hypocrisy and had to rant

 

[Treacle Toes]

so I see! I just got as far as liamo's sonnet which lays the charge of hypocrisy and had to rant

Me too!

 

[existentialist]

You're being absurd. You can have 7 billion people on the planet if they don't eat meat. If they eat meat the carrying capacity is going to be lower. At some point we're going to have to live within the means of the ecosphere to recover, or really bad things happen.

I suspect that one of the really bad things that will happen will result in there being a lot less than 7 billion people on the planet. That's the way it seems to work...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I suspect that one of the really bad things that will happen will result in there being a lot less than 7 billion people on the planet. That's the way it seems to work...

And yet, there are more well-fed people on the planet now than there have ever been. Whole parts of the world that previously saw regular famines now have virtually no serious hunger - China, for instance. India is making great strides, despite its growing population.

Rapid progress is being made in terms of feeding people everywhere except sub-Saharan Africa.

Are there imminent crises, urgent problems that need solutions? Yes. As ever, yes - there are as many of us as there can be, more or less, as ever. And there are now 7 billion brains ready to be harnessed to provide solutions. 7 billion pairs of hands to do the work needed.

I'm not counselling complacency. Not at all. But to call imminent doom is to form part of a long tradition. The tradition dates at least from the 1790s and the Rev Malthus.

 

[existentialist]

And yet, there are more well-fed people on the planet now than there have ever been. Whole parts of the world that previously saw regular famines now have virtually no serious hunger - China, for instance. India is making great strides, despite its growing population.

Rapid progress is being made in terms of feeding people everywhere except sub-Saharan Africa.

Are there imminent crises, urgent problems that need solutions? Yes. As ever, yes - there are as many of us as there can be, more or less, as ever. And there are now 7 billion brains ready to be harnessed to provide solutions. 7 billion pairs of hands to do the work needed.

I'm not counselling complacency. Not at all. But to call imminent doom is to form part of a long tradition.

Yeah, "imminent doom" is probably pushing it a bit. Anyway, there's also a long tradition of not listening to imminent doom-mongers, so it's a bit pointless.

I take a somewhat fatalistic view. Money talks, whether it's dentists forking over $55k to murder a lion, or AgroTechCorp™ knocking out something that kills all known bees, or AcmeTechCorp™ figuring out how to make cows the size of elephants, but which shit man-eating land sharks.

Not to mention the problems with getting people to change their behaviours. I'm a vegetarian (for immoral reasons), but I consume dairy products. I know dairy is responsible for some of the worst abuses of animals, but, frankly, I don't care. If it's about unhappy cows vs cheese, then pass me that lump of Gorgonzola, thanks all the same.

I suppose I could make myself unhappy by trying to be good, but it wouldn't work. I do at least refrain from trying to make myself happy by pulling big downers on people eating bits of animal, even if the temptation does sometimes get a bit much...

Frankly, my dietary and lifestyle choices are going to have far more impact on my own lifestyle expectancy than on that of someone in sub-Saharan Africa, so the point at which I swap the cheese for (more) lentils, and make my own bicycle out of compressed sewage is likely to be reached for selfish personal reasons rather than the future of the planet.

Which, incidentally, will manage just fine without us once we've fucked it up, anyway.

 

[weltweit]

The reason there is little mention in this thread of the baby killed in Palestine or the migrants trying to get from Calais to Britain or for that matter the UK homeless and imminently to be evicted people care of very recent Tory laws is because this is just a thread about an African lion called Cecil and the American dentist trophy hunter who decided he could cruelly injure it with a bow and arrow leaving it for 40 hours before putting it out of its misery and taking its pelt and head as treasured trophies he expected to be able to hang back home in Minnesota. Things directly related to that such as canned hunting in Zimbabwe or South Africa, meat eating, etc have also been aired.

This is the only thread as far as I can make out in the last 12 months about an African lion trophy hunt, there are plenty of threads about Palestine, migrants, homeless etc, and commenting on this thread does not for a moment imply you don't care about those things.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Well said.

I am insulted by the nasty irony and fickle contradictions of the news in recent days (like most weeks actually)...A lion, protected (rightly so) yet internationally mourned over in this way?...however thousands of immigrants/refugees, repeatedly referred to as animals and dehumanised, the camp named the jungle, their lives mean nothing.

I really don't see all those things as separate issues. We're dealing with the same problem of how to allocate resources in a sustainable way when a tiny number (the 1% of 1%) of people control more resources than everyone else combined.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I'm not counselling complacency. Not at all. But to call imminent doom is to form part of a long tradition. The tradition dates at least from the 1790s and the Rev Malthus.

I would say that those people are a useful part of the social ecosystem. You need enough doomsayers to get the rest to move from their complacency. There's the famous example of the Y2K bug. The reason it wasn't a problem was because people understood and corrected the problem before it became a problem. You need everyone in their all various social niches in the ecosystem.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I really don't see all those things as separate issues. We're dealing with the same problem of how to allocate resources in a sustainable way when a tiny number (the 1% of 1%) of people control more resources than everyone else combined.

Where have I said I see them as separate issues? I may not have spent a lot of time over that post but I did talk about how things are connected.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Where have I said I see them as separate issues? I may not have spent a lot of time over that post but I did talk about how things are connected.

I didn't say you did.

However, talking about a lion, doesn't mean you don't care about dead babies. Especially with the weight of all of the other threads on Urban. If you don't see one, please feel free to start one. I might even be grateful for such a thread as my news is mostly corporate news. Its difficult to get "real" news out of new services determined to feed us a diet of car chases and celebrity gossip.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I would say that those people are a useful part of the social ecosystem. You need enough doomsayers to get the rest to move from their complacency. There's the famous example of the Y2K bug. The reason it wasn't a problem was because people understood and corrected the problem before it became a problem. You need everyone in their all various social niches in the ecosystem.

That's an interesting point. I suspect it also works the other way, though. 'We're fucked anyway, so fuck it' can also be a cause of indifference and an inhibitor of engaging in the needed change.

 

[Yossarian]

I'm probably going to say something many people won't like. You can't be an environmentalist and a carnivore at the same time. Meat production is one of the biggest things that's causing deforestation, habitat loss, overuse of water, and greenhouse gas emissions.

I think vegetarians who live in big houses that require a lot of energy to heat, drive cars around, take the occasional flight, keep carnivores as pets, and generally live a Western lifestyle put a lot more strain on the environment than people in poorer countries who eat some goat or chicken every now and again.

But I think just about everybody has environmental blind spots - a lot of people who don't eat meat, or don't fly very often, or don't drive, or have chosen not to have children, or try to only buy local vegetables, etc. think that because they have done one thing, the rest of their lifestyles are OK and the problem is other people, not them.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

That's an interesting point. I suspect it also works the other way, though. 'We're fucked anyway, so fuck it' can also be a cause of indifference and an inhibitor of engaging in the needed change.

You might even need those people too, just not too many of them. People who make claims about doom should have to present a good case to convince other people that there's a problem. Occasionally, there will be an outcry over something that isn't a problem. The other side is useful in filtering out the real from the unreal. Global climate change has sufficient proof that we should be acting on it.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I think vegetarians who live in big houses that require a lot of energy to heat, drive cars around, take the occasional flight, keep carnivores as pets, and generally live a Western lifestyle put a lot more strain on the environment than people in poorer countries who eat some goat or chicken every now and again.

But I think just about everybody has environmental blind spots - a lot of people who don't eat meat, or don't fly very often, or don't drive, or have chosen not to have children, or try to only buy local vegetables, etc. think that because they have done one thing, the rest of their lifestyles are OK and the problem is other people, not them.

I'd generally agree with that.

 

[DotCommunist]

. 'We're fucked anyway, so fuck it'

the problem with this is its entirely right. They won't stop. A case in point is how long they took to get even token efforts at renewables off the ground and yet fracking was railroaded through with nazi-like efficiency. They are going to wreck the world before they go. They don't give a flying fuck. We'd be better investing thought in how to make things grow again when the land has been trul poisoned because the capitalists genuinley don't give a shit

 

[DotCommunist]

thats why the only way to preserve the creatures of this earth is to be rid of our economic system and replace it. They'll kill us all and lose not a nights sleep

 

[Yossarian]

They are going to wreck the world before they go. They don't give a flying fuck. We'd be better investing thought in how to make things grow again when the land has been trul poisoned because the capitalists genuinley don't give a shit

At what point would you consider the world wrecked? Seems like the time is already here, and the capitalists don't seem to be going anywhere.